is BLW really natural?

[kels666]

Our ancestors would have been mashing food for their babies for thousands of years. If not mashing then chewing food for them. Of course it's natural to give finger foods (nothing new there) So why some trendy American term? Why do people thing they're doing something different to what the rest of us do? My first lo had every finger food going at 6 mths. Most of the time she ate from my plate. Oh and guess what, she also had mashed food - seems like the natural way of feeding a baby to me.

[puffling]

It appears to me that BLW is inextricably linked to breastfeeding and to the promotion of breastfeeding. Obviously, breast is best and if breastfeeding is done for an extended period, blw works because the baby is mainly nourished by milk. However, it does concern me when blw proponents suggest its use to posters without making this link explicit. I'm also concerned by the inference or suggestion that the alternative to blw is simply processed baby food. We all want the best for our babies and I really don't see any long or short term harm in making a meal, mashing it up and feeding with a spoon.

[AitchTwoOh]

Baby Led Weaning is a wanky name, totally.

don't get your point about BLW and BFing, puffling. i'm ffing, and was doing since 6 months. gill rapley has posted on my blog to say that they did the research with bf babies, so that's all she can report on. however she sees no problem with ffers doing blw, and the literature reflects that, albeit hesitantly. i find it highly unlikely that anybody would embark on weaning their child without having read Rapley's guidelines first, then they can make up their own minds whether to proceed or not.

i've never seen any inference that the alternative to BLW is jar food. ridiculous. if i hadn't heard of BLW i'd have mashed and spoon fed home-made purees and what's more she'd have been just fine. but i'm always amazed that people get nippy about blw... what's not to like? if you don't want to do it, don't. nothing bad's going to happen.

and it's not just BLW babies who are primarily nourished by milk for the first year, i think that should apply to all babies, should it not?

very interesting post, psychobabble, although i was wondering if drawing conclusions from one set of bones is dangerous, given that a lack of food or a surfeit of food might change things year-on-year? you'd probably need to dig up entire graveyards, do you think? it's only cos we're living in a land of plenty, i suppose, that we get to have conversations about how to wean...

[Singapore]

How can it be that I am on my third child in five years and am not familiar with BLW? I have also just become aware of the new recommendations about weaning age, I followed guidelines with my first two which started them earlier than six months and fed them from a spoon, i have not yet become aware of any problems realated to it but i guess its early days. I suppose its a case of when you know better you do better!

[DizzyBint]

the link between breasfeeding and baby led weaning is appropriate because baby led weaning is about the baby controlling their intake, as is the case with breast feeding. HOWEVER, i'm not suggesting that bottle fed babies are force fed.

i think in rapley's study (prior to contributing to aitch's thread) she simply stated she wasn't sure how this intake control would work with bottle fed babies. breastfeeding mothers are, in my opinion, less concerned with amounts a baby takes in. where as a bottle feeding mother is far more aware of the number of ounces a baby is consuming. i think that is why, certainly amongst my mum friends, bottle feeding mums find blw difficult. they like to know exactly how much their baby is getting and be able to up amounts, decrease amounts etc. with breasfeeding, then flowing into blw it just doesn't work that way.

of course, yes you can bottle feed on demand and blw can work perfectly well as a next step, aitch is a perfect example of that but from my experience of watching my bottle feeding friends, i can see why they struggle with the idea of it.

[AitchTwoOh]

luckily my sheer unabounding laziness has always protected me from worrying about things like intake...
to be fair i suppose because i mix-fed i was more in the mindset of a bfer than an ffer, thinking about it now. but i was present when the ffing ladies on my birth ward got their 'here's how you do it' chat and they were all told to feed on demand, deffo.

[DaisyMOO]

I was musing about this a bit last night and I was wondering about the differing psychological messages a baby is getting about eating with spoon-feeding and BLW. I know when I've spoon-fed and watched other people doing it that there's quite a lot of body language going on - parent opening their mouth as he/she offers the spoon, (subconsciously prompting the baby to open his/her mouth), big smiles when the baby eats, well dones when baby has eaten 'lots' and I wonder what messages this gives the baby about eating - ie it is good, it makes mummy and daddy happy, not eating disappoints them etc. With BLW the baby is just presented with the food or just helps himself from the parents plate and I think the parent is less inclined to sit watching them and 'encouraging' them to it so there's less 'emotional value' put on the food and eating.

In terms of what is 'natural' I wonder if giving the baby chewed up food from the mouth is more like BLW because it is sharing the food if the baby requests it, rather than actively feeding the baby IYSWIM?

Just a ramble really, not drawing any conclusions or suggesting one is better than the other

[AitchTwoOh]

there was an interesting thread a while back about whether we 'should' be visibly pleased when our children eat 'well', i think hub started it after mawbroon had said that she consciously didn't praise her children for eating their dinner or show disapproval when they didn't.
as someone who could stand to lose a stone but is incapable of leaving food on a plate thanks to years of 'clear your plate' chat from my entirely loving parents, i found it really fascinating.

[SoupDragon]

Personally I think any implication that BLW and breastfeeding are linked is a bit silly. They're completely different ways of feeding - why would FF babied not be Ok with BLW? Neither FF not bf-ing involve chewing (thank god!).

Daisymoo, trust me. If a baby doesn't want to be spoonfed, they won't be. They have just as much control.

[SoupDragon]

(I can't leave food either, Aitch )

[SoupDragon]

I have to say I do praise BabyDragon for eating because, quite frankly, she's cr*p at it and could do with the encouragement.

[DaisyMOO]

Well I agree that if a baby adamantly doesn't want any more they won't (been there, seen it, tried to get one more spoonful past a baby whose lips are clamped tightly shut ) but other babies may feel encouraged to eat more than they really want if they're being jollied along - in the same way that when some children are tired they just sit down and refuse to walk any further but others can be coaxed to carry on.

[AitchTwoOh]

yeah, i don't know how i feel about this, i think maybe it depends on the child. having never spoonfed dd (until recently! hilariously she has now decided that if i am loading up the spoon with something unknown she will lean over to the spoon in order to taste it, before making a decision whether or not to proceed! ). but as a ff i've seen loads of people say that ffers can and do force feed milk, whereas i wouldn't have a hope in hell of doing that with my baby.

[Enid]

whats wrong with giving encouragement for eating?

please dont say it turns people into bulimics or I will cry with frustration

[bluejelly]

I don't think food should be an emotional issue-- it is fuel and also a pleasurable experience. Having a nice full tummy is a great feeling in a child, i don't think they need their parents to reinforce it with praise.
But that's just my opinion

[Flamesparrow]

I love BLW squabbling threads

I went with lazy weaning myself... BLW for a lot of the time, spoons for when we were in a hurry and we didn't have time for BLW/mess. It was a mind numbingly slow process with the spoon though because DS felt the need to suck his thumb for a few mins between each mouthful.

I have been lucky though - DS took to food like BabyDragon has taken to sequins, floam and sand . If I didn't see the amount of food going in then I would probably be worrying myself sick about his size.

As for praise/non-praise.... there is a difference between finishing the plate/last mouthful praise and just being happy they are eating. We have "4 more mouthfuls"/finishing a portion set out on the plate (got 4 more mouthfuls from Psychomum). It ensures that they have at least eaten something, but doesn't bring the "argh I can't clear my plate" feeling.

We all sit to eat together, so the blw still involves seeing people eating, and praise when he gets it right (its strangely fascinating watching him attempt to pick up peas, so he gets lots of YAY!! when he finally gets it all the way from plate to mouth).

Food is food. If you consciously make an effort to praise/not praise that is when you will end up with problems, go with what you find natural and you should be fine. (Obv not in the "my baby won't eat and is losing weight" situtation... that one you need to pay attention to )

[Pruni]

Message withdrawn

[SoupDragon]

I guess with bf-ing you have absolutely no idea about how much they're eating, you just have to go by weight gain and general contentedness (which is where we've fallen down with BLW TBH, poor weight gain/loss and miserable as sin).

I think praise for eating is good to a point as it brings the child's attention back to the food, otherwise there are so many more interesting things to do or see and I'd rather BabyDragon ate enough at mealtimes to last her rather than just enough satisfy immediate hunger if that makes sense. She'd rather be playing/investigating/causign havoc ont he floor rather than sat in her highchair eating. Praise at least turns her focus back to the food and/or me.

Flame, don't forget Googly Eyes and buttons... rather large buttons for a small baby And a large amount of dessicated coconut at a messy play group we went to this morning...

[Flamesparrow]

FlameBoy was on beads today

Dessicated coconut is a step closer though - it is at least edible!!

[AitchTwoOh]

i should say that i do praise dd, but actually i suppose i hooray when she is enjoying her food, cos it's just so cute, rather than when she cleans her plate. er, although thinking about is that may be because i don't think she's every yet cleaned her plate tbh, as it mostly gets picked off our plates and plonked down. if i give her more than a couple of bits of food they get flung on the floor, by and large.

[harpsichordcarrier]

I don't give a toss if it's "natural" or not. the point (for me) is that dd2 learns to regulate her own appetite rather than have me decide how hungry she is and what she should eat. and it's loads less hassle for me.
er that's it.

ghosty, to answer your question yes I did do toddler led toileting. obviously with gentle encouragement and jollying along but it was led by her. (ditto bf on demand)
although I didn't do BLW with dd1 because I hadn't heard of it back then

[harpsichordcarrier]

actually, come to think of it I don't praise dd2 (who is BLW) I just let her get on with it, and try and gauge what she is eating and what I shoudl offer more of. she feeds herself with a spoon / fork these days so sometimes I will spike a bit of veg or whatever and offer it to her to feed herself like that.
she eats well and enjoys a good variety, but some days she just isn't that hungry. It is fabulously liberating to know that she can regulate her own appetite and choose what she wants to eat.
and I have always given her mashed up food - I just let her feed herself with it. I am down with the mess

[gegs73]

It is the case though that if a child 'regulates' their own eating (and I' not talking a tiny baby here but from say the age of 18 months or so). Then they could regulate it so they don't eat anything you would like them to eat at meal times, then be crying for food when its all over. I know if my ds was in complete control all he would eat would be sandwiches.

Also a question about BLW, aren't you worried about them choking? DS regularily choked on tiny lumps of food for a long time.

[belgo]

gegs- my dd refused to have a spoon in her mouth. If I did try and make her, she would end up coughing, choking, and even sick sometimes. With BLW, she could control the amount of food going into her mouth, and exactly when it went in there, and she didn't choke. Sometimes she would cough a bit, but it was remarkable how she could cope with foods despite having no teeth, as long as she was in total control.

[kels666]

I don't have any problem with how people feed their babies. I do, however, laugh at the implication that BLW is some new phenomenum. People have been feeding their babies like this for centuries. I fed my first this way and she was formula fed by the time she was weaned. (ok, she had mashed food as well) I intend to do the same with my ds who is 6 mths tomorrow and still breastfed. I also believe that it's natural for mammals to chew food for their young - which is why I asked the question in the first place. I notice some people just give finger foods (along with milk feeds) - I wondered if their babies would get enough nutrients this way. I personally, wouldn't feel happy doing it that way. As far as spoon feeding is concerned, we are expected to eat with cutlery, so I don't think spoon feeding is necessarily a negative thing. In fact, I wish I'd used a spoon a bit more with my dd. She still grabs food with her hands - at 22 mths - and rarely uses cutlery.

[fluffyanimal]

I think that some praise for babies when they are eating is good, as I reckon they can get manipulative quite quickly. My ds is only 10 months and spends half his meal time begging for his water cup so he can fling it around the kitchen. i have to hide it from his sight and praise him when he eats (either from a spoon given by me, or finger food). But I can't get him to eat a scrap more than he wants to so i don't believe I am making him eat more than he wants by encouraging him with praise.