Master of hunt beaten unconscious

[mrslaughan]

I have just read an article about this...absolutely disgusting, and it really just shows that the police have been too soft on these yobs, masquerading as animal rights activists for too long........

[OhSammyBoy]

The fact that members of the hunt have been violent to sabs, doesn't justify sabs being violent to members of the hunt. Nor vice versa. Both sides dong violence is completely unacceptable.

The issue with a minority of the sabs is, as I see it, that they cover their faces I can only assume because they know they are planning to break the law if given the opportunity, and the police seem shockingly uninterested in this. As Mrs says, if they were doing this outside a Mosque they would be dispersed extremely quickly and most likely prosecuted. I am not sure why because they are doing it to a group of people out hunting it becomes acceptable.

I've been subjected to intimidating behaviour by sabs whilst out with the DSs (who were petrified) - We weren't out hunting (we have never been), just had the misfortune to have been hacking down the lane near the hunt stables! To be honest they are lucky my horses are such a sensible bunch because otherwise any of us - including them - could have ended up seriously hurt.

[Incapinka]

There is no need for violence. By all means protest against something but have the guts to show your face. Some sabs come out hunting and do this. They may take videos or photos and that's fine. It's the ones that don't show their face. They are incredible intimidating and in this instance it gave them the confidence to beat the crap out of someone in front of witnesses, even someone videoing it.

I did Google convicted hunt supporters and the first few pages which came up were all from hunt saboteur websites. These aren't the unbiased version I thought you would be referring to. People do react when pushed to their limits and when you are having abuse hurled at you and your horse and the hounds sprayed with stuff it can feel as though you are being set up to react by an anti who will have a handy friend recording it in case there is a reaction.

[chockbic]

The sabs shouldn't be upsetting or attacking other animals, in an effort to protect foxes.

Having said that, I abhor hunting. It's ineffective and cruel.

[AmantesSuntAmentes]

The saddest thing about this is that when a red coat is injured, it makes the press. When a sab is injured, it rarely does.

Sabs are up in arms at present, following a particularly vile spate of attacks by the hunt, such as running sabs down with quads, on public roads. Running sabs down on horseback, on public roads (shit horsemanship, whether you hunt or not!) and causing injury (and sometimes death) by any means, weapons and tools available to them.

When emergency services (ambulance) try to attend an injured sab, hunts have and will block their access to the injured party, as was the case recently, when a hunter rode down a sab in the southwest.

If sabs are likely to be attacked, some will feel justified in carrying weapons themselves. Sabs are likely to be attacked and far more likely than than a hunt supporter, whip or master.

Why do sabs wear face coverings? Because for thirty odd years or more, the law has fallen down on the side of the hunt. In one particular case back in the 80's, I think it was, a judge found in favour of a hunter, against six eyewitness reports and police evidence from two separate officers!

It's no wonder sabs feel the need to hide from the law when they are regularly let down by the law. Does a red coat have trouble seeing justice done? No! Sabs have fight hard and usually in masse (I.e. protests and petitions), just to have a case of gbh or abh looked at. It's utterly despicable.

[AmantesSuntAmentes]

...and FWIW, two members of the hunt attacked a sab. Mike lane was injured in the resulting fracas. Guess who edited the shortened video, shown by the press? The hunt. Guess what the 'metal bar' really was? A long tailed hunting whip.

[chiliplant]

My friend also told me that if someone does decline t have the hunt on there land it has been known on more than occasion that they will receive poison pen letters making sure that they will be put out of busdiness. Its no it an honerable 'sport' at all.

[thewomaninwhite]

I detest hunting but agree that violence is never okay (on either side). It's just not.

[horseygeorgie]

chiliplant that is vile gossip with no basis in fact. 'My friend said' is really not enough. I hunt, I am a hunt groom. My entire way of life is bound up in hunting and I am proud of it. I know every one who hunts round here, including the staff, and without exception they are lovely people. Poison messages indeed! Not in this area. You have your opinion, which you are of course entitled to. I have my opinion which I am entitled to. That they don't match is no excuse for violence on ANY side.

[AmantesSuntAmentes]

This wasn't unwarranted violence on the part of the sab, it was self defence. Two members of the hunt attacked one sab. Self defence is nearly always OK.

[AmantesSuntAmentes]

horsey, my father was head groom and mother, groom for foxhunts. I grew up in that way of life and landowners were indeed bullied and threatened, chili has it spot on. 'Lovely people'?! We are each entitled to our views, of course but I, personally, don't consider people who enjoy killing or the thought of killing to be 'lovely people'. I suppose you are with a 'drag hunt'? An original drag hunt or one which 'happened' to become one, post hunting act?

[horseygeorgie]

Well my experiences differ massively to yours amantes. We go on our life experience and mine is how I have stated above. I have certainly never heard of any violence connected to our hunt and I don't know enough to comment on other peoples experiences of it. I think you may have missed the point of my post, which was violence on any side is not okay. I am not having an anti hunting debate on here, I have my views and you won't change them. You have your views and I can't change them. I respect other peoples beliefs and don't impose mine on others so agreeing to disagree is a good course of action here! The hunt I am involved with is a big shire pack.

[Goneintohibernation]

I agree completely that it was a horrible attack, and that kind of behaviour should never be tolerated. I am shocked that the police are doing nothing about it too. I though it said in the link that it was being investigated? Is that not the case? I think you would struggle to prevent people covering their faces though, especially in this weather when most people outside for any length of time will be wearing a hat, scarf, etc, and are unlikely to have and more skin on show than is absolutely necessary!

[horseygeorgie]

Was only thinking yesterday while walking the dog that a balaclava would be just the thing! My mum was right

[AmantesSuntAmentes]

The point of my post, horsey, was that you weren't actually respecting chili's belief. You dismissed it out of hand as 'vile gossip'. I'm glad you now accept that hunts can and do bully, as is my experience. I do find non-violent hunters to be a oxymoronic concept, because, well - it is an oxymoronic concept, therefore I am not disagreeing with your belief, as such but with the sheer implausibility, if not impossibility of your statement

[horseygeorgie]

My point was actually that chilis statement was based on hearsay, not her(?!) actual experience. It was via 'a friend said' that I objected to. I think if you read my first post again you will see I have just repeated the statement 'violence on any side is not acceptable' so I'm not sure what point of view I changed! I don't mind being an oxymoron and I'm not fussed if you remain baffled by my stance! Fox hunting is fine in my book. Beating someone up and hiding behind a cause is not. I do accept that I may be odd though!
I'm off to walk the dogs and the child. Wish I had a balaclava!

[AmantesSuntAmentes]

Beating someone up and hiding behind a cause is not.

Exactly. Mike Lane has nothing to hide behind. There is no excuse for two huntsman attacking one sab but that sabs actions in self defence are justifiable.

Fox hunting is fine? I think it's well accepted that when people harm animals, it is a red flag for abuse. FWIW, I don't think you are 'odd' .

[horseygeorgie]

So I'm not odd but am an abuser?! Bit strong!

[AmantesSuntAmentes]

Are you? Harm to animals is a predictor of harm towards people. You've said you are 'proud' of meeting that criteria. I wouldn't be, personally but as you quite rightly said, each to their own (or thereabouts)

[SignoraStronza]

Just serves to reduce them to the level of the people who get a kick out of terrorising and killing foxes... (and most hunts carry on as usual with their illegal accidental kills, whatever lipservice they pay to the actual law).
Not doing the animal rights movement any favours at all.
Mind you, have never known a pleasant hunt master. Judging by the swearing and abuse I used to receive as a child, protesting by my front gate.

[AmantesSuntAmentes]

and most hunts carry on as usual with their illegal accidental kills, whatever lipservice they pay to the actual law

They do indeed, which is why every hunt should be monitored by sabs and why the majority of hunts react aggressively to the presence of those monitors. These sabs were acting in self defence, when a sab was attacked by two huntsmen.

[ThatBloodyWoman]

In answer to Incapinka.

I can't see how it matters who compiled the list of convicted hunt supporters that you saw.

A criminal conviction is a fact,not an opinion,therefore not subject to bias,surely?

[SignoraStronza]

Oh yes, and the only waitressing shifts at the country pub I would ever absolutely refuse to do were Saturdays. Even before they got pissed (and then got on their horses), the hunt and their followers were the most arrogant, rude, foul mouthed and up themselves arseholes I ever had the displeasure of serving.
I don't condone violence, but for someone who enjoys meting it out on the local wildlife, it is somewhat karmic.

[horseygeorgie]

I'm going to leave this thread here, I think it has wandered off topic somewhat and has moved into the hunting debate and I'm not interested in rehashing it with a group of strangers on an Internet forum who will never believe I'm anything other than vile!

Have fun everyone.

[lemonhope]

The hunting debate will never end. I have children who hunt and love it - the hunt have never been anything but kind and welcoming to them. I myself don't really enjoy hunting and I can see the hunt sabs point of view. HOwever, they can be very violent and intimidating (particularly around the children at our hunt - jumping out at them with balaclavas on - trying to be deliberately frightening to children and ponies) which doesn't do them any favours at all.

[lemonhope]

the latest tactic by the sabs here is to shine lasers in the ponies eyes. The ponies I have to say, not the hunt horses. very cowardly and mean.