Teachers, what is wrong with the education system?

[ColourMeGreen]

England, Wales, NI, Scotland and anywhere else across the world. What's wrong with it, what does it need, how could you reach every child?

[noblegiraffe]

Not many original ideas in education! What’s your background?

[Piggywaspushed]

No, technology is not the answer. Not even a little bit.

Where is the technology we are supposed to use?

[Kazzyhoward]

Flexibility - some children need to work ahead or behind their age group; some children thrive in group work; some prefer to work alone; some need to sit at a desk; some need to lie on the floor; some need to run at lunchtime; some need to be on their own and just be.They need to be allowed to be individuals - this of course does take money but it also takes courage to break away from the antiquated education system we’re currently stuck in.

Fully agree. Just throwing more and more money and doing the same things is madness. The system needs fundamental change - it's not fit for purpose.

[Piggywaspushed]

Actually, this has annoyed me OP. You (disingenuously?) asked what the problems with education are. Many posters told you what they were and none of them focused on what you have already clearly decided is the problem and the solution!

Throwing some kind of tech solution at a problem is not the solution at all.

[Piggywaspushed]

kazzy I find it interesting that you fully agree with that comment when you started another thread arguing for uniformity and rigid structures...

[samlovesdilys]

And a moral purpose, rather than a tick box culture - love this!! Totally agree...and money of course...but also ucas needs a rewrite so students apply after they have exam results, we need to offer a wider range of courses that are relevant to today's job market as well as promoting academic learning...students are individuals and it constantly amazes me we try to fit them into the same box! And more money...and respect would be nice...

[BaruFisher]

Different types of schools that are chosen by parents rather than imposed like the grammar system which continues to divide and damage in Northern Ireland and parts of England. Too many schools are trying to educate pupils of all abilities, SENs and varying parental support together. This leads to lessons being geared towards no one in particular in groups of 30 or more where they can’t get the help they need.

A focus on human beings rather than statistics- league tables only measure results, not the softer skills which are so necessary for pupils from all backgrounds but especially from chaotic homes.

Behaviour standards that should be across all schools do that all children have the opportunity to learn, while the systems which monitor these should have a mixture of support and discipline- too many schools are too far down the line of one or the other.

Smaller class sizes to ensure that pupils have the attention and one to one or group help when needed.

To be removed from political influence and led by experts in educational research and practice (including classroom teachers who haven’t forgotten what it’s like to balance everything)

An exam system with tiers again where every child has the opportunity to achieve but not necessarily the same things. That academic and practical, soft skills and hard results all have value.

Tech- little to offer beyond the computer and projector mentioned earlier. Too often doesn’t work, seem as a doss, the focus is on the tech not the learning and emphasises the differences between the haves and have nots (in terms of familiarity and ability with the hardware.

[Kazzyhoward]

kazzy I find it interesting that you fully agree with that comment when you started another thread arguing for uniformity and rigid structures

No, I was advocating consistency and standardisation - you can be consistent without rigidity.

[PastTheGin]

Technology is definitely not part of the solution, OP.
I would happily ditch all technology and go back to blackboards and chalk. It’s the “noise” that’s wrong with teaching. A business consultant would say that teaching has forgotten its core business.

[Kazzyhoward]

And one of my examples was that consistency would allow easier moving from one set to another, i.e. improving flexibility! The trouble when you have different teachers doing their own thing is that the kids are effectively "trapped" in the set/stream. That was one of the highlighted problems with the 11+ and the sec mod/grammar system, yet still happens today - the so-called flexibility of the comp system is often just an illusion due to inflexibility, in part caused by lack of consistency/standardisation.

I'd love to see a system where no only is it easy to move between sets, but also to move between years, i.e. to accelerate or slow down your passage through school rather than the rigidity of everything being dictated by date of birth.

I'd also scrap the exam system and current subjects too and move to a modular system where you accumulate points from numerous successfully completed modules to count towards your eventual grade. I'd have modules particularly for various skills, such as logical thinking, cause & effect, etc rather than using a subject like history to teach cause and effect.

Finally, I'd encourage teachers to have a few years of experience outside schools before returning to the classroom. If that means higher pay to attract people with more life experience, then I'm all for it. Far too many teachers just don't know a life outside school - they don't know what a modern day workplace is like outside school. From what my son says, and his grades and from our very brief meetings with his teachers, the ones who've come into teaching late in life, after having a career/work in other sectors have a completely different attitude and are generally more popular. And yes, I say, again, if that means higher pay to get better teachers, bring it on.

[Piggywaspushed]

That last paragraph is not my experience at all, but there you go.

[taxguru]

Technology is definitely not part of the solution, OP. I would happily ditch all technology and go back to blackboards and chalk. It’s the “noise” that’s wrong with teaching. A business consultant would say that teaching has forgotten its core business.

Just because tech in schools has been badly used, doesn't mean it should be ignored and binned. How about using it properly? You really can't just ignore it. It's everywhere in the modern world. Nearly every job involves tech. In the future, all good jobs will be tech-based. The country/world needs people with top tech skills.

When kids get their entertainment/news/information from an ipad and youtube, do you really think nothing but "chalk and talk" would work?

The trouble is more that tech is badly used as an after thought. We're still trying to teach the old fashioned ways, but using tech on the peripheries.

In other industries, tech isn't on the side-lines, it's integral and core to the business/activity. What they do revolves around the tech available. In schools, it seems they just want to do what they've always done, but use a bit of tech to make it look modern. Completely different mindset.

Just look at so-called online text books. Basically just a pdf image of the paper text book. Proves my point exactly!

[noblegiraffe]

How about using it properly?

What does ‘properly’ look like?

Most teachers use tech in their classrooms to present their lessons to the pupils.

Lots of efforts have been made over the years to sell shiny toys to schools. There is some genuinely useful software out there that is widely used, just as there is software widely used in offices, because it makes the job easier. SIMs. SISRA. Idoceo. And in maths, software like Desmos or (not necessarily popular but still going ten years later) MyMaths.

What people tend to be wondering when bemoaning the lack of technology in education is ‘why is the teacher still there?’.

[fedup21]

From what my son says, and his grades and from our very brief meetings with his teachers, the ones who've come into teaching late in life, after having a career/work in other sectors have a completely different attitude and are generally more popular.

That’s not my experience at all.

[LittleAndOften]

From what my son says, and his grades and from our very brief meetings with his teachers, the ones who've come into teaching late in life, after having a career/work in other sectors have a completely different attitude and are generally more popular

Not my experience either. Good teachers come from a variety of backgrounds. I've seen excellence on both sides. Equally I've seen very naive people who've come from 'industry' totally shocked and disturbed by the realities of classroom/behaviour management because they thought their 'life experience' would trump established pedagogy. It really doesn't.

[Piggywaspushed]

how about using it properly : using what properly?? Most of us work in schools which are cutting costs everywhere. There are perhaps 100 computers in total in my school for student use.

I am not following what this technology is that we are to use properly.

In addition, you do realise that nearly all exams are handwritten these days? Education is, of course. partly there to equip young people for future workplaces but we do also have the added business of educating minds, and preparing them for exams.

I find most teenagers astonishingly inept at using any technology other than a phone and even then their use is limited.

[Youmadorwhat]

I am constantly baffled at the differences between the uk and the rep of Ireland.

Every school in Ireland has at least one teacher who is dedicated to learning support. These teachers take out children who are in need of extra support in maths and literacy. It can be either one to one or small groups (4 max), they take EAL students, social skills groups etc etc.

There’s no such thing as TA’s only SNA’s who are assigned to a particular child.

If a teacher is absent a substitute is provided!!

Teachers pay does not come out of the school budget, it is paid by the department of education.

Teachers are paid more, and treated like humans not drones!!

I also think not having to pay for school dinners, a kitchen and a cook out of the school budgets makes a difference! All children bring packed lunches! Some schools in deprived areas get funding for packed lunched to be provided by an outsourced company.

I’m not saying it’s perfect here, it’s definitely not!! But to me those basic facts should apply everywhere.


The Irish

[Soozikinzii]

I have been a classroom teacher for nearly 40 year now. In the academy set up alot of the money tends to go on ridiculous 6 figure wages for the management teams and not enough is being spent actually in the classrooms. The money that is wasted is the biggest problem. There are whole brand new schools that are standing empty because they weren't organised properly and have closed down. Money's just being thrown at problems without proper checks and accountability. It is appalling but is going under the radar because all anyone every discusses is Brexit.

[LittleAndOften]

Every school in Ireland has at least one teacher who is dedicated to learning support. These teachers take out children who are in need of extra support in maths and literacy. It can be either one to one or small groups (4 max), they take EAL students, social skills groups etc etc

There’s no such thing as TA’s only SNA’s who are assigned to a particular child

If a teacher is absent a substitute is provided

We have all of this in the UK! Every school has to have a SENCO.

[Youngandfree]

@LittleAndOften not EVERY School, I worked in two schools in the uk and neither had dedicated SENCO. Our deputy head was given the job but to be honest she gave the actual one to ones to the HLTA as she was too busy. And also in another school we shared a senco so it was messy.

I am in Ireland now. And what the pp is pointing out is that to get resource hours in Ireland you don’t have to be special needs to have time with the resource teachers. A teacher will tell the SET team who needs their time and they will assign it to them.

[LittleAndOften]

So they did have them, just badly organised? They still have to have them though.

Are you primary? At every secondary I've worked at since 2003, students who achieved below 70 for their CATs were targeted for booster classes, whether on the SEN register or not.

Resources are extremely stretched though, no arguments there.

[Youngandfree]

@Littleandoften I’m primary.

[Youmadorwhat]

@ColourMeGreen
Also do these SENCOs take the EAL students too or just those with special educational needs? It’s just that a pp stated that there was a lack of help for EAL students. Our school has a dedicated EAL teacher, and then the Learning resource team.

[Youmadorwhat]

@LittleAndOften sorry I tagged OP in the post above accidentally

[LittleAndOften]

@Youmadorwhat no worries.

In my experience, EAL students get swept up for boosters through poor results, so do get attention, however it isn't an official thing and that definitely needs addressing.

"Total immersion" is the official policy, which is the government's excuse for doing nothing.