Being asked to provide copies of marked work for private tutors to see

[hydehere]

I wonder if anyone has experienced this or has a view on it.

I have been asked to allow a student (KS4) to take her assessments home so that her tutor (privately employed by her family) can see them and work on them with her. I'm not sure how I feel about it, though I'm not sure why. We don't normally send this stuff home and I have gone through it in the class, so not sure what a tutor can add. Obviously I can see the benefits of a tutor, but am less sure about them going through stuff I've already marked. However, I may well be being ridiculous.

There is also the fact that the work will have to be photocopied, which is a bit of a pita as there is quite a bit of it, and the request has been phrased quite curtly, which makes me less inclined to put myself out. But, again, I may be being a complete arse.

Just wondered what others think...

[Piggywaspushed]

The role of a tutor is not to help the teacher help the child ! It is to help the child!!

If that child then wants to share with their teacher what support they have received and any helpful tips, fine and dandy. But a tutor is not a learning consultant.

[TeenTimesTwo]

As a parent, I really value seeing assessments as it helps me inform how to best help them with future revision.

(Especially as their school keeps exercise books at school.)

[noblegiraffe]

A kid getting a tutor says that a school has failed to provide an education equal to that of tailored 1-1 teaching? Er duh, I don’t think a school should be worried to admit that they can’t provide that.

When a parent asks me if their kid would benefit from a tutor, my answer is always ‘yes, of course they will, however they are expensive and so if your DC wants to do extra maths then there are also lots of free online resources that you could investigate first’.

[ohreallyohreallyoh]

Ask why they are doing that job

Well, in my case, as a single parent who receives no support from their father, tutoring helps keep my head above water. Should I not try and support my children using the skills that I have for fear of other teachers believing I'm no good at my job (which is what I think you're suggesting, not entirely clear)? I get plenty of repeat custom and recommendations. I teach in school during the day - I understand what's required and can correctly interpret an exam specification as well as work out where gaps in knowledge are. I understand what examiners need to see to award marks.

We are supposed to be about getting the best possible results for the children we work with, not allowing our professional pride to be dented because some students need additional support and the parents are able to finance that.

[CraftyGin]

I’ve never worked in a school that supported the use of tutors. It’s saying that we have failed. No school wants to say that.

I wouldn’t personally pander to tutors. Ask why they are doing that job.

[MaisyPops]

puzzledsiena
They can struggle with a concept and be able to articulate what they struggle with.

E.g. I have a GCSE student who struggles with essay structures for literature essays. They dont have to "get" how to structure an essay to be capable of saying 'I'm stuck on how to structure It'. Or English Language, 'I didn't score well on question 4'.

They're ks4 students. They should be more than capable of paying attention to feedback. In fact it's a fairly basic part of learning and taking a tiny bit of responsibility.
Personally expecting spoon feeding is half the reason some students end up not doing as well in y11 because it's always someone else's responsibility. Y7-9 isn't really worth doing properly. Y10 doesn't count. Year 10 mock exams aren't real so no revision is done. Year 11 mocks get a bit more revision but not much because it's ages til the real thing Someone else should put a revision session on, someone else should make their quotation glossaries, someone else should make them revision notes, the teacher gives feedback and tells them how to improve but the teacher should take the independent thought out of improving for them. Someone else should do intervention (aka not real intervention but reteaching y10 material for students too lazy to work properly first time), then if people don't do that get a tutor, then the tutor should contact the teacher to ask the teacher to explain feedback that's already given to the child, thrn the tutor should go through again.

Notquiterichenough
Oh I'm not doubting you. I was just saying what should have happened. I'm under no illusions some are a bit ineffective on that front.
It's poor form not to have a chat with you. I get them not having time for 1-1 intervention with him, but I'm surprised there's nothing in the department he could sign up to. In your situation I would pass that up to the head of department and explain what you want to talk about but the teacher has repeatedly ignored you.

[Notquiterichenough]

@MaisyPops yes, the teachers should, but it doesn't always work like that.

In this particular subject, the teacher has told my DS that he is just not getting it, and needs to be moved to a lower group, and that he's not trying hard enough. Refuses to meet or talk with me because she's"too busy".

DS and I know that it is one specific area he doesn't and will never understand, a tutor is basically helping him learn it by rote. He needs the assessments to see where he is missing stuff.

I'm talking a year 10 child targeted an 8 for GCSE, getting 6's and 7's in most areas, but 2's on one specific part of the sylubus.

[timeisnotaline]

I used to tutor gcse level (Australia equivalent) , in maths physics English and French. All my students would have all their old class level assessments to look through, why would a teacher keep them? The students would go through them for revision and I could use them to quickly see their weak areas.
When I was a university tutor I always gave assignments back after marking also. What else would you do? Only centrally set exams are not received back but students never see those again, just get their final grade. Class teachers don’t mark those or see them marked either.

[puzzledsiena]

MaisyPops
Presuming the child is having difficulty with the concepts as it is, can't really expect them to be the go between as well? It doesn't seem realistic to expect them to communicate everything faithfully between teacher and tutor. Wouldn't a direct communication between teacher and tutor reduce her likelihood for error? Agreed, emails, lists and so on are a demand on limited teacher time, but parents are always going to employ tutors so need some kind of workable way to help them help the teacher, to help the child?

[goodiegoodieyumyum]

My children, not educated in the UK have to bring all assessments home as we have to sign them and then send them back to school, we always look at where they have gone wrong, if we didn't get to see the assessment then we wouldn't be able to know where they need help and go over what they have problems with, I find it strange that the child cant take their assessment home to show their parents even if they then have to return it to school.

[MaisyPops]

Notquiterichenough
The teacher should go through assessments in class and give feedback. If someone really missed the point then they should make an effort to catch them in class for a bit of TLC.

I get not having time to do 1-1 out of class. It wouldn't me manageable. I've got 60 year 11s and much as I'd love to give them that, I don't physically have the time (let alone my a level groups).

My general approach us books can go home as and when fits my marking or if a student wants to do a spot of extra work then they just let me know.

I don't mind tutors wanting to see work, but do object to the regular toe treading some of them do in my area (E.g. talking about how they got their students X grades when actually it was probably 11 years of education that got them there, not 20 hours of tutoring/ telling students to do new methods and new things in March of y11 and other undermining things / sending students in with unmarked work for me to mark and look at).

Thankfully, my groups are well-versed in how to reflect and respond to marking so most of them can confidently tell their tutors what they need to work on.

[Hadalifeonce]

I don't think it is a teacher's job to provide this information to a tutor, if they are prepared to do this, it should be for a fee, much the same way as a doctor does for signing forms etc..

[Notquiterichenough]

I've just employed a tutor for the first time (key stage 4, one specific subject) and it is hugely helpful DS to have his assessments at home to go over. His teacher has told me that she doesn't have time to work on his specific issue (another story ).

TBH, even in the subjects where he doesn't have a tutor, he likes to take the assessment home so.he can go over it.

As he told me today, he is more interested in where he lost marks, than his actual score. He can't do that without the assessment.

[sproutlove]

My ds has a fantastic tutor who always goes over his marked work - assignments and papers. It helps the tutor see what ds is being taught in class, what he is struggling with and what he has got to grips with. It's very helpful and makes sure that the tutor doesn't teach ahead of the subject teacher.

[Heratnumber7]

Got asked this for a child in my class (primary though). We ended up photocopying a few pages of extended writing because the Mum was a total PITA. Wouldn't have let her take the book though. The school would have backed me if I'd said nO

But it's the child's work, not yours. So technically not yours to keep.

FWIW, DDs teachers were only too pleased that we were able to pay for her to get extra help. One less pupil for the teacher to worry about.

It did grate a little when she told me how proud she was that DD had passed GCSE though. That flipping GCSE cost us s lot of money, and the pass was nothing to do with the teacher!

[MaisyPops]

puzzledsiena
A qualified subject specialist should be more than capable of administering a baseline assessment to a new student and identifying weaknesses.
They should also be equally competent in understanding there are different approaches in their subject and ask the student 'what paragraph structure does your teacher use'.

We do y11 revision sessions and there'll be students from 7 classes there. We just tell them to use the approach given by their teacher and then from there we can tell them how to improve on objectives.


If they won't do that then they are being unreasonable.
If they can't so that then they shouldn't be tutoring in my opinion

[Piggywaspushed]

Oh dear! Too much to do you see ....

[puzzledsiena]

Missed that one Know what you mean though. The tutor is trying to understand what they need to do help and the teacher is buckling as it is without the extra hassle. There's probably no perfect answer.

[2019Dancerz]

piggywaspushed as a teacher I didn’t think you’d miss the sarcasm!
The contact between teacher and tutor should be nil. Pupils are perfectly able to find out for themselves (by asking me) what I’m expecting to teach this term, and to pass it on.
In the case of a tutor supporting a student with additional support needs I would answer differently.

[puzzledsiena]

Tutors usually want to help the child with weak areas as in picklefish post below. What do you think is reasonable for a teacher to provide the tutor? Or is it more of a question how the teacher provides it? Emails, phone calls, tutor lists, etc don't seem to be the answer. It's teacher overhead but the tutor wants what the teacher wants, which is to help the child achieve their potential. How does this happen without it becoming a burden?

[Piggywaspushed]

I would say, most tutors don't want any of this. They are very independent. there is a big difference between asking is an assessment can go home and asking for topic lists, meetings, emails and phone calls!

[physicskate]

@puzzledsiena easy for my subject to provide yearly and trembly topic lists, which is why the always did!

[puzzledsiena]

Of course, more than one tutor, that's a problem. If a phone call and or email is going to be a pain then maybe it would be easier if the teacher provided a list of areas they're intending to work on at the start of the term until the start of next term? That puts the teacher firmly in the driving seat (as it should be) and the tutor is wiser about how best to support teacher and child? Also, rather than having a conversation with the tutor(s), it's one list produced from the teachers teaching plan at the beginning of term to enable the tutor to support. One way dialogue, so not very time consuming. Could do without the overhead, but a teaching list for the term could put paid to multiple tutor enquiries?

[noblegiraffe]

If tutors get brief catch-ups once a term then what’s to stop parents wanting that phone call too?

Bonkers idea.

[physicskate]

@puzzledsiena I worked in a school where about 15-20 of my gcse students had tutors. A couple of my a level students had tutors too. It was just that sort of school, and I was more than fine with that. Having to catch up with all of those tutors once a month on top of teaching 27 hours of lessons per week - you're off your rocker!! That would have taken several hours of my time.

I was not keeping my head above water as it was!!! Asking me to do one more thing (have a meeting with a parent about a complete non-issue) was the straw that broke this camel's back.