Genuinely, how many hours do do work?

[EndlessJob]

I think I've lost sight a little since moving into the independent sector.

SMT, so take home more work, but:

School day 8-5
Meetings or prep for one hour after 2/3 days
Saturday school 9-1

But
17 weeks holiday

Take work home every day, usually 3-4 hours per day. Work all Saturday afternoon, only 3 ish hours on Sundays.

This works out at about 80 hours per week, but for only 35 weeks a year. I probably do part time hours for about half of each holidays, so about 30 hours per week for 8 of the holidays weeks.

80 x 35 = 2800 term time hours
30 x 8 = 240 holiday hours

So, 3040 hours (give or take, fairly conservatively) per year, which is 58.5 hours per calendar week averaged.

Is this normal? Is this the same in the state sector? Or other private schools? It just seems too much. I can't do this until I'm 68!

[Aliveinwanderland]

We have a good marking policy of one assessed piece every 3 weeks, no marking books.

I work part time 3 days and do 7:45-4pm in school, 2 hours one weekday evening and 2 hours on a Sunday. Never take a lunch break and work solidly in my PPA time. I am just about keeping on top of it. We have a long teaching day of 6 hours so less time for PPA stuff after school.

[MrsHerculePoirot]

Secondary maths. Only work three days a week. Mon/tues I do 745am - 545 pm, weds I do 745-445 usually. Mon/tues work 2-3 hours in evening. Thurs/fri work 2-3 hours in morning. Usually do few hours at weekend.
Currently trying to teach new A-levels in maths and further maths without the right calculators and no textbooks and our school have also brought in a million chances to everything, none of which quite works right yet. Brilliant!

[Phineyj]

I think your workload is excessive for independent, but it'll probably be the Saturday school that's doing it. I worked in a school last year that was open Saturday mornings and it nearly killed me off, because of the Friday night planning, weekly argument with DH over who was more tired every Saturday afternoon and then needing to spend Saturday night and/or Sunday planning for Monday.

[physicskate]

I'm at a day school indy in secondary, normal class teacher. I arrive at work by 8. Leave about 5:30. I get about 15 mins for lunch and work through break. Then I work about 2 hour three nights a week. Then about 3-4 hours on a weekend.

When I worked at boarding school, the hours were an additional day...

So totalled up: about 55 hours a week.

SLT should work longer hours, so long as you're paid the appropriate rate! 80 per week does sound a bit much. Presumably this is a new school/ role? Perhaps it will get a bit better once you've learned the ropes??

[phlebasconsidered]

I work.0.66. Take my ppa at home. Under our new academy expectations are that all staff are in by 7.45. On two of my days we have meetings till 5.30.

I work through break and at lunchtime am expected to eat quickly and perform interventions, as children are no longer allowed out of the lesson time in the mornings and I no longer have a TA in.the afternoons. My morning TA is one to one and only in for teaching hours so all the ks1 gluing, sticking in and resource prep is done by me.

Ridiculous in depth marking requirements mean I take 3 sets of books home every evening and work for several hours after my kids are in bed.

I've been asked in, unpaid, on inset days when I don't work. There have been angry words about directed time.

I plan and prep from 9 till 3 on one of my days off. I work Friday evenings till the work is done to leave the weekend clear.

I have two parents evenings this week till 8 and an observation the day after.

The head emails constantly and I am expected to reply on my non working days. Data is demanded constantly. Woke up to a reminder to put data on this evening. Head sent it at 6.30 am.

On my actual day off I spend a lot of time looking for other jobs.

[samlovesdilys]

Ok, reading this I work a lot...ML, in state school 8-4:30ish every day, later if meetings (2-3 a week) then do anything from 2-4 hours 4 nights a week, the big killer for me is c.6 hours on a Sunday, very rarely eat lunch let along take time for it, very rarely actually get PPA without something encroaching and know I will be doing more by term 4...trying to have a better balance this year but failing miserably at the moment...

[susannahmoodie]

Phleba that is insane! Get out quick!

[susannahmoodie]

I am a secondary HOD and I am in school from 7.30 til 4.30, plus meetings once or max twice a week.

I would work a couple of hours on a weekend and 1-2 hours maybe 2 evenings a week. Sometimes eg mock exam time this increases.

It's manageable.

[MaisyPops]

Unless there is a pinch point with workload I tend to work 45 hours a week.

I've got to the point where I've reflected on how much detail I was marking in, questioned whether every lesson needs a powerpoint, don't spend ages making multiple work sheets etc. Also probably just got better at teaching and more efficient.

Earlier in my career i was easily hitting 60 hours a week in an environment where long hours and late emails were expected. I realised something needed to change or I would leave teaching.

[Piggywaspushed]

What actually did happen to the Teacher's Workload Agreement?

Those were the days. Sigh.


I cannot believe the shit some of you lot are putting up with.

Round my way, academy is just a word; the schools have not really changed the way they operate all that much, and if they have, it's not because they are academies : in fact, whilst my school is one, we don't have it in our name.

[MissMillament]

Second in dept for core subject. I am in at 7.30 every morning and leave at 6.30. I haven't taken break or lunch yet this -year - few of us have our own classrooms so we spend these times lugging books around the (large) school site and setting up for our next couple of lessons. Meetings of one kind or another after school nearly every day. Onerous marking policy. I try not to work at home on weekday evenings but need to at least once a week. I don't work on Saturdays but do 5 hours on a Sunday. So 60 plus hours a week essentially. Summer I worked for two weeks solid before returning to school plus normally half of half-terms and 4-5 days over Christmas and Easter.

[Forcryingoutloud1]

Please excuse my ignorance as I am not a teacher, but those of you that don't mark books- what do Ofsted/parents/students make of this?
Do you at least mark homework?
How do students know their work is correct and how to improve it?

[MongerTruffle]

Secondary MFL teacher:

I start at 7:30am; school ends at 3:40pm, but I leave at 5pm. Most planning is done in that 80 minutes. I do small bits of marking throughout lessons and take books in for full marking once per half term. Most homework and mini vocabulary tests are peer-assessed. Near the end of each term I have a huge amount of tests to mark.

[physicskate]

Forcryingoutloud I think you are giving a lot of students a bit too much credit for caring what they have got wrong. Not all are like this, but probably about 90% of the pupils and students I teach.

I am required to mark books - yes I must mark the notes that the kids copy off the board - MY notes, every week! and the work that is already marked in class!!! It's almost gotten to the point where I should just do all the work for them... I've found that actually the more I do for them, the less they do for themselves. Oh if I only I could get some data and turn it into a graph!

[DumbledoresApprentice]

We mark key pieces of work, exam questions, assessments, tests (at least 1 per half term per child at KS3 and more at GCSE and A Level) and have a departmental policy to use "acknowledgement marking" for significant homework. That means giving it some ticks or very brief correction and a quick indication of quality with merits for good pieces.
Ofsted graded us outstanding last year.

[Forcryingoutloud1]

Thanks - I just asked as non marking and not giving children feedback and how to improve work was noted on the Ofsted report of the secondary school we are looking at for dd.

Sorry to have hijacked the thread.

[DumbledoresApprentice]

Feedback is so much more than marking though. We are incredibly good at feedback in my school, marking is only a small part of that. We share examples of work with the class, we do walking, talking marks in class together, give verbal feedback, use highlighters to show good work and areas for improvement, train students to self assess, after exam papers I make notes on common mistakes and what differented strong answers from weak ones and then share that with the whole group. Marking is important but not everything needs to be marked. It's not the most efficient or effective way to give feedback.

[itssquidstella]

Private secondary school here. I have extra responsibilities.

I'm in school 8-5.30 every day, have to stay later for evening (or occasionally weekend) functions about once a fortnight. Work through breaktime/lunch. Bring marking home once a week.

It works out as about 50 hours a week, I reckon.

[Rainuntilseptember]

Have any of you attempted to work to rule? You aren’t helping yourselves by working these hours. You will not stick in the profession until retirement. And if you do manage it, I would expect divorce/alienates children to be in there somewhere.
I used to work those kind of hours and it did me not one jot of good in the long run. You all have unions, do they support these unrealistic expectations from management?(assuming that’s were it’s coming from and you actually have to work this long).

[Piggywaspushed]

I more or less do, but am finding it harder. I should be a role model but,in fact, got told off for saying 'don't take work home'!

My school is not as bad as many, though.

You are right, though. rods and backs spring to mind....

[Piggywaspushed]

my DH is in a private school. Does bugger all at home.

[phlebasconsidered]

Work to rule no longer exists in academy chains. My union have more or less given up. They can always employ unqualifieds.

[missmapp]

SLT. In school 7-6. Work at least 2/3 hours each night job - Thurs and about 4 he's on a weekend. So
55 Hours a week in school
14_hours A Week At Home.

No Wonder I'm Tired!!

[MaisyPops]

Please excuse my ignorance as I am not a teacher
No worries I'll try to answer
but those of you that don't mark books- what do Ofsted/parents/students make of this?
I mark books but not every piece in detail.
Students have to be given feedback. Feedback is not the same as written marking.
E.g. I set an analytical activity a bit ago. I read them all and then planned a lesson where I guided students through thr goods and the bads. I showed them made up good and bad examples and they then improved their piece.
Zero writteb marking for me. Massive impact for their learning.
If I'm honest, it takes quite a bit of honesty with a class to explain the difference between marking and feedback. Even now I have students say 'you didn't mark X' and I say 'you know last lesson when i gave ypu 5 mins 1-1, why do you think I did that?'.
My logic is that timely feedback is much more important than delayed writteb feedback.

However, i do mark set pieces in shit loads of detail.
Do you at least mark homework?
Depends what it is.
Often I set homework that can be peer marked in class or some preparation work for the next lesson e.gm plan an exam response and then I mark the exan response
How do students know their work is correct and how to improve it?
Marking and feedback are different. Marking is a form of feedback but not all feedback had to be written marking.


I hope that helps. I know I still mark books but I think people who say they don't probably use thr same logic as me but draw the line in a different place.

[IrregularCommentary]

Dh is slt and maths. In 7am - 5:30pm, rarely any lunch break. Works 2-3hrs at home Mon-Thurs. Fri night and Sat all day off (though he's asleep by 9pm on Fridays!). Works 5-6hrs Sundays.

It's not always easy to live with.