Just worked out I earn £5 an hour

[LaceyLee]

When I take off childcare costs from my income alone (I do have a DH) based on a conservative estimate of working hours and NOT including work taken home in evenings or weekends, holidays!! Not sure why I do it! I do enjoy the actual teaching of course... Anyone else the same?

[jellyfrizz]

OP, why don't you work out your pay per hour without including childcare but including those weekend, evening and 'holiday' 'additional, unspecified hours as may be needed to enable the teacher to discharge effectively his or her professional duties' to give a clearer picture of what a teacher earns per hour.

[OddBoots]

People with children who work in childcare take home a lot less. Thankfully our children only need childcare for a few of the 50ish years we can go out to work.

[SecretSquirrelsSecretFriend]

My childcare is more than I earn so I could say I pay to work at present but that's not actually true.

Your childcare is a shared cost so I don't get where you get £5 per hour. The woe is me attitude is a bit tiresome sometimes.

[jellyfrizz]

Why is it apparently contentious to suggest that a cleaner - a job that requires no qualifications, should earn less than a teacher - a graduate position with a lot of responsibility?

THIS!

[Doowrah]

Yes Lacey thankyou for your understanding, it could indeed be worse.

[LaceyLee]

I agree doowrah that cleaning is not a job you need qualifications for so you would expect to earn less than a teacher. Same with retail etc. Its basic economics but some posters seem to want to frame it as snobbery. I used to clean too as it happens and I know our school cleaners work incredibly hard and it's not right that they lack holiday and sick pay.

I still think it's interesting and I believe a lot of people without kids would be very shocked. Obviously it could be worse.

[noblegiraffe]

Why is it apparently contentious to suggest that a cleaner - a job that requires no qualifications, should earn less than a teacher - a graduate position with a lot of responsibility?

[Doowrah]

Well, when I was cleaning and I embarked upon a PGCE and my teaching career yes I did expect to be earning more than I was before I did it.

[RudeElf]

Yes you could have, which is why i am wondering why you chose cleaners. It implies you expect cleaners to be taking home less than you.

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

You also can't factor in the extra hours you do in your calculation as presumably you aren't paying childcare then?

If you are genuinely trying to calculate whether it is work woring in the job you do then the calculation is simple:

Annual Net take home pay - childcare + other work expenses e.g. travel etc)
then that gives you how much you are making per year by working rather than staying at home. Remember also that some expenses will increase while you are at home such as electricity/gas and whatever you do to fill your day when DC are at school (if they are at school)

When we had two babies and DH was a nurse it was not worth him working, it was a pretty easy calculation. Salary £17,000 (net approx £12k) - cost of childcare 11k, cost of travel etc £1k). He became a sahp with a part time job (2 evening and one full day at the weekend) bringing in £4.5k. we were definitely better off.

Doesn't sound like you are in that position so it's not about your money really, either you can afford not to work and live of DHs salary or you can't.

[Doowrah]

You are clearly looking very hard to denigrate me and my post. I offered my fact up as in my experience people are surprised that teachers do not earn more. I could have said any number of other jobs.

[RudeElf]

Why did you choose cleaners to state your fact? There must be loads of other jobs that take home more than you.

[Stylingwax]

If my DP did this excluding my income it would be -£3 an hour for him. Excluding work taken home.
Honestly I don't get teachers. Yes I know you work hard, but most people do. And everyone has to either look after the children they choose to have, or pay someone else to. If you don't want to pay for childcare then either don't have children or don't work!!

[Doowrah]

I didn't have one...was just stating a fact.

[RudeElf]

So what was your point?

[Doowrah]

No Mrs Guy and Rude elf I don't think cleaners are lowly beings and should be wearing rags. I have been a cleaner myself in the past, climb down.

[StealthPolarBear]

" It would be much easier for employees, most of whom will be parents at some point, to have some kind of state-subsidised provision as happens in other countries."
Of course it would be easier for parents to pay less for childcare. But who actually pays for that?

[cruikshank]

I don't get the sahm angst about these issues. If I were a sahm I wouldn't give a toss about any kind of employment matter whether maternity leave, sick pay or holidays - why would I, if I wasn't working?

[BettyApplewhite]

You're bloody lucky then. If I take childcare off I end up in negative.

[MrsGuyOfGisbo]

But whenever there is a suggestion of subsidising childcare costs by giving tax breaks where two earners in a family, SAHM start squealing that it's not fair...
Some companies give salary sacrifice childcare vouchers as a perk (ie you pay for them pre-tax, so does not come out of taxed income so you save the taxable amount). I instigated these as in a company I worked for - sadly too late for my own DC.

[BrieAndChilli]

I got offered a job last year. Hours were 1-5pm @ £6.50 an hour.
Childcare costs would have been £4.50 an hour for ds2 and 2 lots of after school club @ £8 each for the other 2
Wages = £26
Childcare = £34
So by your thinking I would have earnt £ -£2 an hour!!

Luckily I have found a part time job since ds1 started school an finish at 3pm so don't need childcare!

[cruikshank]

That's a massive difference, KP86. We are one of the most expensive countries in the world when it comes to childcare costs - I think the average spend per family is something like a quarter of household income. That's a lot of money.

[KP86]

Childcare in the UK is easily double (or more) what I used to pay back in Australia, and compared to salaries it's ridiculous.

I used to pay $50/day (~£25) after a non-means tested rebate for long day care (6:30 - 6:30 if needed). Here I pay £36 for DS to go to a child minder for 6 hours. I was earning approx $200/day after tax as well.

[cruikshank]

It's a little unrealistic to expect teachers to only work the hours that they are teaching. Would you want your kids to be taught by someone who makes their lessons up as they go along and never marks homework?

[TheFallenMadonna]

We don't have contracted hours. We have contracted directed time hours. We are expected to work outside that too. It's in the pay and conditions.