Part time - can my days be changed without my agreement?

[FromPenToPaper]

I'm a secondary school teacher in a "converter" academy, and I currently work part time 3 days a week. My Subject Leader/Line Manager has been working on the timetable for next academic year, and today has told me that the days that I work need to change. He is not giving me any choice in the matter. It's because of my subject specialism and the way the blocks are for the next academic year. This is exacerbated by my subject being understaffed.

Can the school do this? Just change my days without my agreement?

[AppleKatie]

Bloody hell, I just spent ages reading this thread and was getting a bit invested . . . . then realised its from 2014.

Same. Although it’s vaguely interesting to see that these issues haven’t changed a jot in five years. Interesting when so much else has.

[monkeytennis97]

Been part time for 19 years now, every academic year the days change.

[Iggi999]

Many teachers go part time under flexible working arrangements, I'm not really sure what the difference you're referring to is?
Can't believe I was getting riled on this thread back in 2014, and again today!!

[likeafishneedsabike]

Bloody hell, I just spent ages reading this thread and was getting a bit invested . . . . then realised its from 2014.

[SansaSnark]

@Mumofone13 this is quite an old thread, but part time working as a teacher isn't quite the same as flexible working- and flexible working can be refused due to business reasons anyway.

In schools, I think it's also accepted that one teacher's right to work part time shouldn't be to the detriment of the children.

Timetabling in schools can be really tricky- especially when you have A-level classes needing about 9 lessons a fortnight and needing to avoid clashes between popular subject combinations. You also have to think about the continuity of KS4 classes- it's not really fair for a Y11 maths class to have 3 different teachers, or to have to have 3 hours of science in a row because that's the only way it can be squashed into the timetable.

FWIW, though, I do think trapped time is really unfair, and shouldn't be allowed.

Unfortunately, I think the alternative to the current set up for many teachers would be schools just refusing their requests to go part time.

[Mumofone13]

I think it is absurd that teachers are expected to be so flexible in how they work. Going part time happens for so many reasons and regardless of whether or not you have children you can’t just be expected to have to readjust your life every year to suit the school! At the end of the day, you have other commitments on the days you don’t work, children or not. Flexible working hours is supposed to be for the flexibility of the employee not the school!

[drspouse]

I am not a teacher but have different types of work, some is on set days decided months in advance and some just booked a week or two ahead. When I came back to work I agreed with line manager no 1 that I would work set days, and followed up with an email to confirm. Nursery (workplace) never have extra days available so you get what you've booked, and that's it, except very occasionally a week in advance if someone is going on holiday - ok for the latter type of work but not the former.

Line manager 2 (no 1 moved) was FAR less than happy with this and tried to make me work 0.6 flexibly WRT days. To do that I'd have had to book and pay for a full time nursery place (and nursery was already full up with a waiting list). I never got a correct contract (I got three incorrect ones!) but I had the email agreement and he eventually agreed to stick to that.

I think he's understood what's what now as two more mothers (and three fathers, but only one ever sets foot inside this nursery) have either started in my job or had a new baaby who goes there.

[KarlWrenbury]

I've never heard anyone ever say ks5. Around here it's all sixth form

[Tinuviel]

I've had the same problem - worked the same 2 days for a long time and was always consulted before Easter as to whether we wanted to change (job share). Then was informed that it was changing but at least it was before Easter. Then a new timetabling person and it all became a nightmare - last year still 2 full days but on different days (2 week timetable); this year part of 3 days and not the same each week again.

It was also the fact that he didn't even have the courtesy to let me know the first time - just assumed I was at their beck and call all week and by the time I found out it was too late to hand my notice in.

My other argument would be, what if I have another part-time job? Who also assume that I'm at their beck and call? They should at least let you know before May half term so that if it doesn't suit you, there is time to hand your notice in.

[Igggi]

Ofgs Wifflewaffle, changing days to avoid staff becoming complacent? What do you do to the full-time staff to make them suitably grateful for their job?
In all this it should be remembered that it often suits the school to have a number of part-time staff, we have ones ranging from .4 to .9 - they fill different time tabling holes. Some of these are people who have asked to work part-time but many were just advertised that way.
More flexible working practices are not something we should be bowing and scraping over, parents need to work and adjustments should be made to keep mothers and fathers in the workforce.

[Stars66]

I have no idea what legal right is... But at least you've got adequate notice to inform nursery etc. right?!

[noblegiraffe]

I was talking about the actual lesson, not the preparation or marking. It's nice being in a classroom with A-level students, who have pretty much chosen to be there.

[FromPenToPaper]

That's interesting WaffleWiffle, thanks. I know that it could be a lot worse and that I just have to accept it or leave.

[WaffleWiffle]

split days, not slip days

[WaffleWiffle]

FromPenToPaper

To answer your original question, I am now a school governor and whenever request are made to go part time it is a given that the expectation will be that days can and will change.

Indeed our head may deliberately change a part timer's days after a few years with stable days simply so that the staff member does not get complacent and gets used to the notion that they will change.

However, I believe that timetablers do make every effort to avoid slip days. Your personal situation will be made difficult if you are the only KS5 teacher of the subject and are part time. It means that the whole of your departments time table will have to centre around you. A good timetable will do his/her best, but cannot guarantee full days for part timers.

You are lucky to have full days off. The fact that the days have changed is just something you need to suck up and accept I am afraid.

[WaffleWiffle]

"it's a piece of piss to teach an A-level class"

Oh my. I am gobsmacked.

For the record, this is definitely not true.

I'm shortage subject (Chemistry) and had no choice but to take KS5 - two classes of each year. The pressure of these lessons and the amount of my non-teaching time they took up was one of the major reasons I decided to become a SAHM.

[Viviennemary]

I don't think there is any point in arguing about who has the easiest time. It's just silly. (Not meaning to be a pain but it is really) The thing is what is reasonable. I don't think it is reasonable to ask people to come in for one hour though I do know somebody who did this and moaned about it for a whole year.

I also don't think split days are reasonable if the hours in between aren't counted at all. But changing your days is fairly reasonable and acceptable.

[FromPenToPaper]

GoblinLittleOwl I have been full time for 10 years before coming back part time. We've always had part time teachers in my dept and wider faculty area. I have never for a second considered that things were being arranged for their convenience, or felt any resentment or hostility towards them. I would hope my colleagues feel the same way.

[FromPenToPaper]

I don't see how it helps my original question to point out that in your opinion teaching KS4/5 is a piece of piss and a cushy timetable. I HAVE to teach most of the KS4/5 in my subject as I am the only subject specialist at the moment. Not much I can do about it, and I guess I should now worry about how much my colleagues hate me for it.

[Igggi]

Don't know why people are turning against each other here, obviously we all have our own ideas about subject areas roles which are harder than others! But in practice we have far more in common than not.

[GoblinLittleOwl]

You have the right to negotiate your hours after maternity leave, but they are arranged for the convenience of the school. They could insist that you work full-time. They are telling you now so that you have the summer to re-arrange child-care. As someone who worked in a Primary school where part-time teachers outnumbered full-time staff, I can tell you full-time staff got pretty fed-up with timetables being arranged to suit teachers' child-care arrangements. Tread carefully.

[Igggi]

Have you spoken to HR? To your union?
I have had days changed one year to the next, but it was with consultation - basically if I wanted a senior class I needed to change, but I could have just not had it iyswim. The days still suited me. When part-time. I have always worked full days, I've seen a number of posts on mumsnet from teachers doing bits of days here and there and I've never understood it.
What would happen if you worked another job in your days off, couldn't just swap them around too.

[noblegiraffe]

You're mistaken, I don't think everyone works just as hard as each other. But that doesn't mean that they have an easy job, because teaching is hard in general.

[FromPenToPaper]

The timetable does pretty much represent your actual job though doesn't it, and what's the point of calling a timetable cushy if you think everyone works just as hard? And you did say teaching A level was a piece of piss.

It's clearly different in different subject, and as it happens the A level I teach with a large coursework component will become a BTEC or similar from Sept 2015 which also be majority coursework assessed. So no real change there.

It's not a bloody competition, and it isn't helpful to throw statements like "piece of piss" and "cushy" around. Why don't you work in a 6th form college if you think that?

[noblegiraffe]

pen I didn't say it was a cushy job, teaching is hard work, just a cushy timetable. If it happened in my department people would raise eyebrows.

It might be different in other subjects, the coursework issue is a big one (but will mostly be going).