Puppy Survival Thread - January - February

[C4itl]

Continuing on the thread from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4105422-Puppy-Survival-Thread-December?pg=28 before we hit the message limit

[BlackDogBlues]

@Maybenexttime08 he’s still only tiny. And it’s still all new. I wouldn’t ignore crying. Scoop him up take him out, no play or interaction, if he doesn’t go then pop back in crate, no play or anything. This phase does pass quite quickly though it won’t feel like it at the time.

My friend used puppy pads at night so it was less fuss. Doesn’t seem to have made any difference to toilet training.

[Doboopedoo]

She’s been a pretty champion napper so far, and pretty good at night too.....she did need a pee last night at 3am and she whined for a while after being popped back in her crate, but settled after 15 minutes - I’ll take that as a win

[C4itl]

@Doboopedoo sounds like she’s doing amazing already!

[Jofischoice]

Hi all, been catching up on your posts, feel like I'm trying to find a balance between relaxing and enjoying Jofipup as he is, and feeling nervous that it's all about to go pear shaped. He isn't too bitey yet and is waking up once in the night and then sleeping through til 7ish and is then awake for breakfast. We have him in a crate at the end of the bed which is raised so he can see us and also get out and join us in bed if he wants to. He usually chooses his crate as he is less likely to get disturbed by one of us shifting around! During the day he is usually awake for around an hour and then naps for anywhere from 30 mins to 2 hrs, is this normal? He naps on the sofa, was trying to enforce crate naps at the beginning but he just ended up not sleeping and I felt sleep was more important for his general development than crate training!

Really interested in the food discussion, I'd really like Jofipup to be able to eat a variety of things with a good quality kibble as a base and a nice wet food for stuffing Kongs and lickimats. I feel so torn though between those who say vets only promote certain foods because of their training - some vet schools have dog food representatives as paid members of staff! - and reports that the newer, fancy grain free stuff has led to heart problems! Unfortunately we don't have many choices with Jofipup as he has had an upset tummy since he arrived so the vet has put him on some 'gastrointestinal kibble' used for when they're recovering from a tummy bug but it doesn't seem to be getting better . A bit worried about this and also means we can't really give him chews or any treats other than his kibble which makes things tricky. He also has ear infections which mean daily cleaning and drops which we all absolutely hate! My parents have a dog with all health issues under the sun but I really thought labs were generally pretty sturdy. Anyone else's pup had tummy issues at the beginning and now okay?

[C4itl]

@Jofischoice The naps sound completely normal to me, I'm currently trying to enforce a nap before puppy goes to daycare for 3 hours at lunch time...it's not going so well!

[LostArcher]

Hi. Can I join? Puppy due to arrive on Feb 11th. Bit of a win as now both of us are WFH so that will spread the load a bit. Can I ask a boring question about insurance. The breeder provides four weeks insurance with PetPlan. Should I get insurance too for the day she arrives or from when that insurance runs out. The only reason I ask is that if we take her to vets for injections and they puppy check her (she will have had this at the breeders as well) but find something like a heart murmur or just 'something' then that becomes a pre existing condition and I will be stuck with PPlan. I know it is unlikely as breeder as fab, show dogs, owns mum, dad, granny and several relatives of pup and is keeping one for herself, but as people who had a rabbit with a very expensive tooth problem, shit like that seems to happen to us.

Next question. Lept 2 vaccine or Lepr 4. Vets round here all seem to go for Lept4. Breeder recommends Lept 2. We have lots of rodents and some brackish standing water round us so inclination is Lept 4. Any thoughts welcome.

Just bought a gate thingy to fence off the tv unit and my the eleventy billion juicy looking wires nearby. The rabbit used to bomb round there and I reckoned it would be the first place Archer Pup will go to!

[PoleToPole]

@incinemasnow PolePup sits on the front seat in his car seat, PoleDog sits in the boot and DC/DH fit in wherever. PolePup gets hideously car sick though, and it is significantly better when hes in the front seat.<br /> <br /> <strong>@LDpuppy</strong> he is stunning! Sorry no ideas about the crate as I dont crate my dogs, but sure someone else will have some ideas, otherwise have you tried searching the Reddit dog sub for suggestions?

@QueenOfToast Ziggy is beautiful!!! I bet the time will fly between now and the 13th, there always seems so much to do before a new arrival!

@DustyasaFieldinSpring welcome! Sorry your first post got lost, Dustypup is so cute, she looks very attentive too

@Plantlover23 and @Petalpup with my dogs and fosters I have always had a basket of forbidden but secretly allowed things, toilet roll tubes, an old slipper, an old sock, that sort of thing.
From time to time I sit on the floor with one of the "prizes", call them over and be very enthusiastic "look! A prize! You get a prize! Hooray!" and let them have it while they sit next to me. If they try to run off with it, it gets taken away and they get given a regular toy instead.

They get to have the prize for a while before it gets "all done now, let me have it" and switched breezily for a favourite regular toy or high value treat, with a "well done" and effusive praise when they let you take it. After a while, they realise if they want the prize they need to stay by my side, and that some prizes are temporary.

I then gradually move up to letting them find the occasional prize when they are pottering about the house, and by that point they know that if they want to keep it, they need to race to my (or one of the DC/DHs) side. <br /> <br /> I add a few "fake prizes" at this point too, so put down a fake prize (egg carton or something) let them find it and bring it to you, then say "ah no, sorry, thats not a prize. But look! Heres a prize!" and whip out a prize from your pocket/behind your back.<br /> <br /> Next I make a game out of "find the prize", and hide one somewhere in the house, using "no, not a prize, let me have it" when they grab something they shouldnt and keeping encouraging them to find the real prize, a kitchen roll tube with the ends folded with a few treats in works well. Lots and lots of praise when the actually do find the real prize.

By this point you should be able to take things off them fairly easily, as they know some things just arent prizes. <br /> It also has the benefit of them racing to your side when they think theyve found a prize, so its dead easy to confiscate things they really shouldnt have, and it makes it very easy for DC to confiscate things they shouldnt have too, reducing the inevitable wails of "Mum, hes got something!!!!!" and having to drop everything to find out what it is.<br /> <br /> It takes a bit of time, but its worked with all of my dogs, and all of my fosters, including the ones who were less than keen to give things up.<br /> <br /> <strong>@Doboopedoo</strong> Dooboopup is indeed extremely cute, and what a butter wouldnt melt look too! At eight weeks PolePup had a sort of 3:1 ratio of nap vs awake. He went to bed at 11pm, up at 3am for a toilet pit stop and then up at 5am, which is when I usually get up.

[PoleToPole]

Almost caught up now

Welcome @Maybenexttime08! No, you arent encouraging the crying by going to him, youre letting him know that you are there for him, and building his trust in you.
I dont crate my dogs, but they do sleep in our bedroom. I have never followed the ignoring crying with any of my dogs or fosters (or DC for that matter), and my parents who were professional working dog trainers never did either. They are tiny babies at that point, and its very natural for them to get scared and lonely. <br /> <br /> Although pack theory is a load of old tosh, the fact does remain that it is instinct for them to stick close to their mother, or mother figure (you) as any pup who strays too far becomes a predator snack or gets lost and starves. As they get older, and closer to adult size, they become naturally more confident as they are more able physically to look after themselves and so they become much less clingy. <br /> <br /> When they are pups, working on building their confidence by keeping them close, and letting them know that if they ever feel out of their depth you are there to fix it for them is what gives them a firm foundation for lifelong confidence, it builds their trust in you, and solidifies their bond with you. <br /> At that age its natural for them to want to be close to you, and to follow you everywhere, they wont always want, and you will absolutely not make a dog clingy by responding to their crying or not letting them follow you about, quite the opposite .

I also always give them a cuddle if they are crying, no playtime, but talking to them in a soothing voice and cuddles to settle them, then "bedtime now" and back to bed. You will pick up quite quickly the different crys, "I need a wee" is quite different from "Im scared, where are you?" and different again from "Im bored and want attention". For the bored, I give them a quick cuddle, soothing voice and "bedtime now" again, and back in bed.
Its part of the letting them know you are always there for them, but at the same time knowing that they will get reassurance, but not play if theyre supposed to be sleeping and bored. That said, I dont crate my dogs, so if they are bored they can grab one of their quiet chew toys, and chew that for a bit, or go for a potter around (the bedroom only when they are pups) and then settle again.

In forty years of having dogs, I have never not had a dog or foster who doesnt eventually sleep through the night using this method, and Ive never had one who keeps up the crying for attention. Although it takes longer than ignoring them, it is a much gentler method which builds their confidence and your bond .

[PoleToPole]

@Jofischoice it sounds like you are doing absolutely brilliantly with him, and having a puppy always makes you doubt and second guess yourself, everyone had an opinion, and it takes time to sift through it all and work out what works best for you. Re food, have you tried probiotics/a dog tummy supplement? Check with your vet obviously, but they made a massive difference to a few of my fosters. I just used to order them from Amazon.
I do add a couple of spoonfuls of pureed pumpkin to kibble whenever one of mine has a dodgy tum, and I add a teaspoonful to PolePups at every meal as I always do with pups, its a miracle worker. I know pumpkin puree can be hard to find in the UK, but baked and then plain mashed sweet potato works almost as well, so could be worth a try, again in moderate amounts. <br /> I also make sweet potato chews, which are good stomach settlers, just cut a sweet potato into strips and bake on a low heat for about three hours until very chewy.<br /> <br /> I have only ever once had a dog or foster on a prescription diet (for severe kidney issues) and our vet is brilliant and doesnt push different foods.
Have you tried a very bland kibble, like the dreaded pedigree chum chicken, which I give PoleDog and gave all of my fosters with sensitive stomachs, or a supermarket own puppy kibble?
Something which has 100% of their RDA of vitamins, minerals and nutrients obviously, but without anything fancier, or trendier. I always think it the ingredients sound like they would make me vom youre on the right track. Stuff with offal and the like in is great, as they are full of nutrients, breast meat/fillets? Not so much. <br /> <br /> The "contains x % real meat" are the worst as the water content of the meat is so high it makes the meat % look much higher and youre paying for the water, rather than if it was ground, dried meat which has a much higher % of actual meat, and so a much higher % of protein. The "real meat" just sounds better to consumers, and so people will pay more for it.

[PoleToPole]

Welcome @LostArcher! I always get insurance from the day we get them, just for continuity of coverage and worst case scenarios as I like to tailor our coverage as things like that seem to happen to us too, as you say, stops the pre existing get out clause.
Im not in the UK, and vaccinations are a bit different here, but has the breeder given a reason for giving Lept2 instead? Did one of Archerpups family members react poorly to 4? I always err on the side of the vets advice unless there is a familial/hereditary history which the breeder knows but vet isnt aware of, so I would have a chat with the breeder, and then another chat with your vet if I were you

[PoleToPole]

PolePup is getting on well, I am now starting to teach him the search and rescue commands which PoleDog knows, I leave the actual s and r to PoleDog as Pup wont ever really be big or robust enough to do it for real, and risks becoming a cougar snack, but he loves learning and doing it in the yard, and its all good practice for PoleDog too. <br /> PolePup is doing well following a series of commands, and waiting for each one even when he knows whats coming, he seems to have abnormally good impulse control. Highly suspicious .

[grannycake]

Welcome to all the new pups. Grannypup is now nearly 8 months old and most of the time is a delight. We have been working really hard on her recall and she can now be let off to play on our local playing fields (which exhausts her) and allows me to get some work done in the afternoon. To be honest I am really surprised at how well she's doing - might be something to do with having jack russels in the past whose recall was dreadful

[ashmts]

Wow lots of new pups! All looking very sweet.

@LostArcher our breeder gave us 4 weeks free with Petplan and that exact thing happened to us. Pup ate a stone and we rushed her to the vet (massive overreaction with hindsight but we're first-time dog owners and we'd only had her a week) and had we switched provider then any foreign object ingestion/GI issues would be classed as pre-existing conditions. Which is absolutely ridiculous if you ask me, she was tiny and ate a stone out of boredom and didn't need any intervention, but that's how insurance companies make money I guess. I was kicking myself for not taking out my own policy on day 1 as I was leaning towards Bought by Many, but I read the small print and I'm sure I read it would be invalid if you have another insurance policy running so no point getting your own policy straight away. I remember thinking this all seemed a bit strange so maybe worth reading the small print of the policy you're looking at in case I'm wrong. Or asking the breeder not to provide insurance and you'll set it up? Although I'm not sure they're allowed to do that,, especially if the dogs are KC registered.

[Jofischoice]

Hi @LostArcher, we went with L4 as this was what the breeder was getting them at 7 weeks and what our vet recommended. I was really glad about this before we got him. Jofipup had second vaccination on Saturday which means we can get out and about this week when he'll only be 9 weeks plus a few days which I thought would be a massive bonus to begin with as we wouldn't be stuck in the house for so long. Now he's here I realise we have more work to do building confidence and it will be good for him to be carried around/driven around and watch the world go by, and he doesn't actually need to be out and about on walks this early on. Basically what I'm saying is, I would go for the one that your vet recommends for your area (unless adverse reactions from family as Pole mentions), even if it means that he has to have two doses after he arrives and you can't put him down on the floor for an extra couple of weeks. You can still do plenty of things for his socialisation from your arms or the back of the car.

Thanks so much @PoleToPole, that was really reassuring to read and I really like your approach with food. I've fostered 5 dogs over the last 3 years but none of them have had tummy issues and I really relied on providing almost constant opportunities to chew to help them feel calm and safe so it's been a bit of a curveball to navigate Jofipup's tummy problems. I'm so wary of changing things around because I know that in itself can upset tummies, but to be fair it can't get more upset than it is now... He has got a probiotic from the vet this morning and I'm taking poo samples for the next three days (lucky me!) as she suspects giardia. I will definitely try sweet potato chews and will look for some pumpkin puree - I have definitely found some before as I remember making pumpkin cupcakes at Halloween! Also love 'find the prize' game, one of my fosters had some pretty serious resource guarding tendencies and I really want to avoid that if I can and this sounds like a really fab approach.

@grannycake 8 months sounds like soooo far away right now but very encouraging - can't imagine letting Jofipup offlead at the moment! Although he does come SPRINTING if I call his name as he thinks I just might have something tasty for him - my partner is very jealous as pup often ignores him when he calls, but then he hasn't spent the time running around the house with treats like a lunatic like I have

[PoleToPole]

Youre welcome <strong>@Jofischoice</strong>, and thank you. I completely understand not wanting to switch things up, it can be a minefield, especially when you run into something you havent dealt with before. Hopefully the probiotics will help, I have found they can make the world of difference.
If you cant find tinned pumpkin, it is fairly easy to do homemade stuff, (which we usually use and then I do a huge batch of canning it as DC love growing pumpkins) its easiest to dice and boil it, and then mash it. Or you can roast it and then mash, but that works better for sweet potatoes. That is provided you can get pumpkins at this time of year in the UK? I cant remember sorry, havent lived in the UK for many years now.<br /> <br /> I also make a sweet potato chew toy (like the pic) for all new pups or fosters, brilliant for tender tums and teething, you do it the same as the sweet potato chews, but cut the potato into inch thick rounds with a hole in middle, then bake for three hours and then flip the rounds over and bake for another three hours. When cool you can thread a rope through the middle. <br /> <br /> Thank you, I have always found the find the prize` game to be a sound way of gently bypassing any resource guarding, my mum invented it, and my parents always used to teach it, they were completely focused on gentle training, and bond building, which was extremely rare for their day.

[HappyThursdays]

we were back in at the vets this weekend as Happy had (another) bad tummy upset. Happy adores the vet and the vet adores him and he absolutely covered her in slobber by kissing her for ages . He's on some medicine but she said she's sure it's all the crap he's hoovering up on his walks.

@PugInTheHouse I did think of you as she said to me, you think it's bad now, wait till it's the summer and they hoover up other people's picnics! She said winter is easier as they are generally just eating up leaves and moss but come summer when the chocolates and sweet things like grapes and raisins are out, she says she has a procession of dogs who have hoovered up rubbish through her door!

[PugInTheHouse]

@HappyThursdays I am dreading it, he has been a nightmare with it this week, he has had lots of soft poo containing tiny bits of cat litter and sort of hay/dried grass. He went out for the toilet and put something straight in his mouth, it was so big he almost couldn't close it, I grabbed it out and it was a whole snail! Today he discovered the actual contents of the cat litter box which was grim as I retrieved from his mouth. Litter box has now moved into a different room (he hasn't bothered with it in 9 weeks so thought we were safe!)

[Petalpup]

Oh wow the prizes game sounds great. I’m off to make a collection of semi forbidden objects!

[Petalpup]

@Jofischoice in our family chappie tinned food is always our go to for dogs with a delicate tummy. I don’t know if that’s worth trying?

[Jofischoice]

@Petalpup Thanks! So great to hear about everyone's family remedies, makes me feel like I'm not doing this alone .

[Doje]

@Jofischoice Dpup has had a dodgy tummy for a couple of weeks and we've finally got it sorted. Mostly I think was giving it time, but we've moved to just kibble, and every solid poo is a celebration!

[SunshineOutdoors]

Hi, I’m very interested in this thread and would love to join you in a few weeks. Been on a list with a ‘breeder’ (only a cross breed really, a shih tzu/Yorkie mum and a Maltese dad, but v responsible with a prominent Facebook page showing family life and I’ve had to give a reference and build a relationship with them for months) for a few months and it looks like we’ll be able to take home one of the litter that’s due in February. We’ve picked this mix because my husband is allergic to some dogs but we look after a friends dog including overnight stays and had no issues. I’m trying to get as prepared as I can but am realising, just like kids, it’s going to be a shock to the system no matter how hard I plan! So will look forward to joining this thread for advice and comraderie

[QueenOfToast]

Does anyone want to talk to me about treats for training?

ToastPup will be arriving in a couple of weeks so I've obediently been reading my Easy Peasy Puppy book to prepare. My beginner questions about treats are:-

What on earth is a frozen Kong? I thought Kongs were like chewable biscuit dispensers. Why do they need to be frozen?

Do I need a variety of training treats?
Chopped up human food like cheese and chicken?
Chopped up human food like apples and cucumber?
Commercially made treats? Which companies? Lily's Kitchen packaging looks adorable (am I a sucker for slick marketing aimed at middle aged, menopausal women?)

Is a "high value" treat simply the treat that your dog likes the best?

How do I stop DS (aged 17) from eating ToastPup's lovingly chopped up snacks?

Thanks

[Petalpup]

Frozen Kong-you can put mashed up food in and freeze it so it lasts longer when puppy is licking it
Variety so you can find out what is their favourite and save the very best (high value) treats for really important things like recall and swapping for things they shouldn’t be chewing
Tiny bits of sausage, ham, chicken, cheese. Like really tiny. Petal likes apple but not sure cucumber would appeal!
Bought ones are useful because you can shake them in a little box and get dog’s attention.
No idea re teenager. I bought a tin of hotdogs in preparation and came home to find dh had given them to the kids!

[HappyThursdays]

@QueenOfToast you may find in the early days, it takes the dog a bit of time to settle with food. So if you are feeding him/her kibble, a good starting treat is just some of his own kibble, especially if he is a bit anxious/dodgy tum like to start.

you have to be careful with treats that they are dog friendly. So there is special dog peanut butter that doesn't have the sweeteners in that regular peanut butter does. Cheese is another one that is very high value but it doesn't agree with a lot of dog's tums.

in general, as they get older, you end up saving the high value treats for things like recall and using lower value ones for sitting/stay etc. The ones that are easy in your pocket are the ones that are commercially available in packets like the Lily Kitchen ones (Happypup found them way too rich for him).

One tip is not to buy too much of one at first till you've figured out what works for your pup! We used high value ones like ham/cheese for recall and then 'cheaper' biscuit based ones for every day treats as they agree with him better but he is now 6 months.

if you've got a breed that tends to be overweight/likes food, you need to just watch how many treats they are getting vs their normal food and the calories they need

I think @PoleToPole said it somewhere on the thread - the more expensive stuff doesn't always equal better with dogs. Some of them really do just work better with cheaper/plain food. As long as they are getting all the nutrients they need!