Would you ask for money back?

[katie2812]

We currently have a dog trainer for our two dogs (pomchis). They both bark at everything and everyone and one of them bites whenever you try to put a harness on or cut his nails or handle him in certain ways. He had bitten us everyday but can be very obedient and both have very bad seperation anxiety. They both hate other dogs and bark like crazy at people in street it's so stressful to walk them. We raised them from birth as mom rejected them and decided to keep them which has played a huge role in their behaviours now but We have tried everything training videos, practiced different methods and now we have hired a dog trainer. It was £150 for consultation and £60 per session after. We made it clear at the beginning what we expect and that was to be not be bitten and to walk them stress free as eventually we want to take them the beach etc. The dog trainer believes in positive reinforcement and doesn't believe in negative responses such as shouting. We have now had four sessions plus an extra dog socialisation walk plus consultation and we have seen improvements e.g. they are calmer and the male is more obedient but we still cannot handle him or walk them at all. On the last session the dog trainer said two more and we will complete the training. AIBU to ask for at least some of our money back if by the end we aren't able to walk or handle the dogs even though we have seen slight improvements?

As a trainer if I said someone needed a set number of lessons, it would be that I needed that amount of time to teach the owner the techniques that they need to use in order to gradually improve the dog, NOT that there was a specific timeframe or expectation on the dogs improvement.
If I need 6 sessions to build the skill set of the owner and get them started, it is highly unfair for me to continue to charge weekly to go over the same ground.....I would expect the owner to go away and practise what they have learnt, be in contact with me in between whenever they wanted it and then to do a follow up as necessary.
Perhaps your trainer meant something similar and has just worded it badly?

So you have Mum who rejected them, Dad with a poor temperament and siblings that have been hand raised with no good role model.
That is as difficult as you are going to get!

It’s going to take longer than 6 weeks to fix all their problems, and you may never get the leisurely beach trip you are dreaming off.

You should be able to get them walking nicely and gently handling them without being bitten.
But I imagine you will be training and actively managing them for the rest of their life.

@Whoknowswhocares

As a trainer if I said someone needed a set number of lessons, it would be that I needed that amount of time to teach the owner the techniques that they need to use in order to gradually improve the dog, NOT that there was a specific timeframe or expectation on the dogs improvement. If I need 6 sessions to build the skill set of the owner and get them started, it is highly unfair for me to continue to charge weekly to go over the same ground.....I would expect the owner to go away and practise what they have learnt, be in contact with me in between whenever they wanted it and then to do a follow up as necessary. Perhaps your trainer meant something similar and has just worded it badly?

That.

She’s teaching you for 6-8 sessions to give you the techniques to then work on the dogs...

YABU
You cannot expect a trainer to work miracles in a few weeks in dogs with problems that you created. You haven't handled or socialised them properly and as a result you have badly behaved dogs that cannot be handled or walked.

This will take months to fix, and you need to do short sessions of getting them used to being handled again. Lots of treats and build up from gently touching their paws etc.
Positive reinforcement works and from the sounds of it you should have learnt as negative reinforcement has created sound reactive dogs... Please don't breed your dogs again.

Have your been consistently doing what she's told you to do for all of those 6 weeks?

The trainer will do nothing for the dogs. The trainer will teach you tecnhqiues to retrain the dogs. Each session should be building on what you have worked on with your dog between the sessions, depending on your dogs and your actions maybe tweaking the training each session.

What specifically have you been told to do to stop the biting re the harnesses?

I've had my chi x for a year. Been training her since week one, did classes for 7 months until corona stopped them. She had a poor start in life but she has come on loads but she's still mouthy with her teeth sometimes.

Positive reinforcement is the method that's got science and ethics behind it, so well done. Unfortunately it's not a quick fix or a magic wand, especially since you've used negative reinforcement and punishment in the past.

Clarity, good timing, patience, consistency. It will take more than 6 weeks. It's great that you're seeing an improvement in that time, but YABVU to expect your dogs to be "fixed".

@Whoknowswhocares

As a trainer if I said someone needed a set number of lessons, it would be that I needed that amount of time to teach the owner the techniques that they need to use in order to gradually improve the dog, NOT that there was a specific timeframe or expectation on the dogs improvement. If I need 6 sessions to build the skill set of the owner and get them started, it is highly unfair for me to continue to charge weekly to go over the same ground.....I would expect the owner to go away and practise what they have learnt, be in contact with me in between whenever they wanted it and then to do a follow up as necessary. Perhaps your trainer meant something similar and has just worded it badly?

This x100

Have you been following the trainers' advice, in full, consistently and without fail? Dogs thrive on consistency, and by far the biggest challenge trainers and behaviourists face is getting owners to follow their advice. No reputable trainer will guarantee results.

You should also, however, be realistic about what is achievable, both due to past trauma (rejection by mum, for instance), breeds (both poms and chis are notoriously yappy) and so on.

Positive reinforcement training does work (and you say you've been seeing results), but it takes time, effort and consistency.

I do understand the difficulties in having a dog that bites and is tricky to walk. DDog (rescue) used to bite if you touched his paws, bite my lower legs if he saw a motorbike (he drew blood on many occasions), bark wildly if he saw a dog he couldn't go and say hello to, hates specific breeds and so on. We've come a long, long way using positive reinforcement methods, but I can assure you that it took a lot longer than six weeks and he'll always be a work in progress (I've spent two years feeding him a treat every time he sees a motorbike, and that's unlikely to change any time soon, though I no longer have to dive into stranger's front gardens to avoid them).