Springer driving me to despair

[madspringer]

Hi - new poster but I've been lurking for ages... All through choosing our puppy last spring and since then! This is long, sorry...

I think I'm posting to rant as much as anything else, but I'm truly at my wit's end with our 10 month old Springer.

We've just got back from what was meant to be a nice walk and it has ended in tears, as usual (literally)! I can't remember last time we had a walk that was enjoyable or relaxing. In fact, we can't really walk him per se - he has plenty of controlled exercise on our village green on a long line, but we can't take him on what I'd call a dog walk as he gets out of control and is SUCH hard work, and his recall is very poor (despite our best efforts).

We chose a springer as we very often look after a friends', and he is lovely, and we wanted an active breed. But I've barely done a proper walk or run since we got him as he's so hard to to control and needs truly constant input and supervision which is, to be honest, absolutely exhausting. He still finds loose lead walking really hard and is learning at a glacial pace, so every walk involves trying to get him to walk nicely. He doesn't just pull on the lead, he is literally scrabbling with his belly to the floor, so we have to practice loose lead walking constantly as I'm worried he'll hurt himself, or pull me over. Even walking him to the village shop is a 40 minute ordeal rather than the 10 minute stroll it should be, as it's literally step by step coaxing him to walk nicely and pay attention. He has no interest in us once off lead, so he's on a long line, but he's so strong I feel it's just a matter of time until one of us gets hurt. We practice recall daily but it seems no reward can compete with sprinting off and chasing rabbits (which he can't do as he's on a long line, but it doesn't stop him trying...)

I feel stupid that we thought we could handle this breed, despite seeing them everywhere we go. My dreams of walking accompanied by a dog are vanishing and I'm realising that I don't think we will ever have the nice walks I dreamt of, and experienced with our friend's Springer, and we'll have to exercise him separately. We love walking, running and cycling and a dog was meant to enhance this and accompany us, but I don't think it will ever happen. He is an awful whiner and whines incessantly in cafes and pubs, so my long rambles ending with a country pub feel like a ridiculous and stupid idea at the moment.

I just feel so sad! And frustrated that going for a walk on Easter Sunday is too high an expectation - we passed loads of our neighbours with their dogs and I feel really sad that we can't enjoy walking together. We were seeing a trainer every week but obviously aren't able to at the moment. We religiously practice his recall and his lead walking and all the rest, so I think we just feel extra frustrated as it seems like none of it is paying off or working and we're actually going in reverse. We must have spent literally hundreds and hundreds of hours practicing, but he's still such hard work and it's really having a negative and stressful impact on our lives and I feel so drained. We do the same outings for exercise day in day out (with LOTS of training and scentwork) as everything else is just too much for us all, and it feels like a depressing and weird groundhog day that makes me regret getting a dog - but I dreamt of this for years and did so much research and prep!!

Like I said I think I'm just ranting... But if anyone has any positive outcomes of stories like this please share!! (Sorry for the long indulgent waffle!!)

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

strikethrough fail

[BiteyShark]

Grumpy I used to be so embarrassed by my spaniel and it was always seemed to be us pet spaniel owners doing gundog training that would be hiding behind our hands at their antics . Mine in particular used to break his sit and take several dogs with him for a run around the field totally ignoring the whistle

[Shmithecat2]

A Cocker is a far different and much easier beast to a Springer, comparisons of the two are not really any good. If you're south OP (Berkshire, Hampshire or Wiltshire), I have gun school recommendations for you.

[madspringer]

@LochJessMonster i'm so relieved to be told i'm being predictable everyone saying it will get better is also very comforting - he's a lovely dog and it's so frustrating that we seem to be falling at this hurdle.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman I feel a bit conflicted about the halti too, but i think i need some kind of help to avoid all walks being really stressful at the moment... I would obviously keep up the loose lead training with his normal lead walking as I would rather not use the halti permanently...

[madspringer]

@Shmithecat2 I'm in the South, but not near those counties unfortunately...

@BiteyShark god your messages strike a chord... if I could pay someone else to walk him I would!! He's also very embarrassing - on our walk today I dared to ask him to sit and stay whilst i untangled his long line, and he squealed and shrieked awfully... I think the two ladies who walked past thought I was doing something awful to him!

He is actually very good on the beach, for example, but he just can't focus in grassy areas, or especially wooded or scrubby areas. Some people above seem to have great commands and control, but it's so hard to get his focus - he also does the awful shrieking and crying I mentioned above when he's frustrated or asked to concentrate, which makes things harder too!

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

Oh yeah, shrieking, crying, thrashing like a landed shark... You've got a right one there but you're not the first and you won't be the last.

I use a slip lead. That's not force free either, but I prefer it to the halti as IME the halti is a palliative but a slip lead, used well, can fix the problem. I also use click and treat which got me 90% of the way there, but a short slip lead did the final 10%.

[DramaAlpaca]

I have two mad working springers, fabulous dogs but so high energy. If I could combine my two into one dog they'd be perfect - as long as they had the good bits of both! DH and DS do work them occasionally, but not enough really.

My older one is brilliant on lead, really well behaved, but she has zero recall on a regular walk so can't be let off, unless she's already had a long walk so is starting to get tired. If you let her off before that she's two fields away before you can stop her and won't come back until she feels like it. Funnily enough though, her recall is much better when being worked, maybe because she has two people out with her then. Luckily she is content on a long lead now she's getting older.

The four year old is still impossible to walk on lead, he pulls and drags his belly on the ground and he is so strong - but off lead he has perfect recall, one whistle and he's instantly by my side. It's difficult in lockdown at the moment because he's missing his regular long runs and we're having to do lots of games in the garden to make him use his brain and tire him out. I'm using the time to try and get him walking better on the lead, so am reading all the tips here with interest.

Before anyone berates me, about these misbehaviours I'm aware these are training failures and I'm working on them

[LochJessMonster]

I remember one particular bad walk when my demon dog was really playing up and he wouldn’t listen, kept running past nipping me on the arm, I couldn’t get him on lead.
I just sat in the field and cried and genuinely thought about giving up. I thought I had got a dodgy defective dog.
I think he was about a year old.

At roughly 2 years something just switched inside him, and suddenly he listened! He thrives on routine and mental stimulation so most his feeds are in puzzle feeders, slow feeder, kongs etc
We do Canicross and agility which has massively helped him around other dogs.

Now people compliment what a wonderful dog he is and don’t believe me when I try and explain what a nightmare he was!

[LochJessMonster]

I found tiny pieces of sausage and chicken taken with me on every walk helped. Definitely helps with his focus.
And continuously calling him back to me (run in the opposite direction so it becomes a game) then letting him go again helps as they then don’t associate coming back with the fun being over.

[Elieza]

I’d be mortified to be dragged down the street by a dog, advertising to the world my lack of control.

The Halti is the way to go. You can use it at the same time as your harness lead. If the dog doesn’t pull the halti doesn’t pull back. The dog will learn that pretty quick. Then you use the halti less and just use the main lead, but using the halti lead if necessary. It really works.

I don’t know why people think they are so bad. If you can’t manage to train your dog to the extent you can keep control of a pulling thrashing monster it solves the problem in under an hour. Don’t feed prior, take plenty treats, dog will associate food with walkies in the halti and not hate them.
It will change your life.

[SansaClegane]

They were the worse behaved of all the gun dogs breeds in my opinion
Aw, common, Bitey: what about the HPRs - the German pointers, the batshit Vizslas...? Spaniel owners IME roll their eyes at those

Grumpy** I have a HPR and she's definitely not as bad! She's a Brittany though, they're not known for being mad. Even so she's what most people would call a well-behaved dog - we always get comments how 'good' she is!
That said, once she's picked up a scent it can be, er, somewhat hard to get her attention again! Especially now that we can't walk as much as we used to. She does keep an eye on me though and comes back to find me even if it takes a few minutes

[Indecisivelurcher]

I would forget about the long line, they're a pita! They give enough freedom to cause trouble and aren't short enough to give you control! Just use a short lead for now. I know it isn't what you'd imagined having a dog would be like and that's a hard one to let go, but it may not be forever. Other people have suggested a halti and that might help if your dog pulls. You might find your dog lies down and refuses to move at first! I also agree with finding a gun dog trainer and training to the whistle.

[Indecisivelurcher]

You might also find halti or ability are good ways to get out some energy, get some training in without the dog realising, and fun for you!

[Indecisivelurcher]

That should have said flyball or ability!

[ThisWontHurt]

I agree that teenage springers are in a class of their own and mine definately got the arsehole rosette in almost every situation.

BUT he got better. And even during his teenage helldom he was the funniest of dogs - THAT'S what you need to tap into. They love fun. They love play. And they are funny.

I also found agility a great activity for him. He got to work off some energy in an environment where listening to me and paying attention to me was the goal. Plus, in between our turns we got to practise being calm and waiting.

I found this series of articles interesting... totallygundogs.com/the-trouble-with-springers-part-one/

[villainousbroodmare]

Lez Graham's book The Pet Gundog is a great, sensible and helpful read.

[TheyAllFloat]

I’d be mortified to be dragged down the street by a dog, advertising to the world my lack of control.

When I see someone walking like this, I think good on them. They have it much harder than anyone with a old plodder but they are still out there walking, despite it. Even more so when it's a springer at the end of the lead.

All dogs are a work in progress and some are more work than others.

Springers are wonderful dogs, but they are not easy. They require a lot of input and walking nicely to heel seems to be a particular struggle for them, ime.

[TheSpanielsBalls]

Ah. Bastard springers

Good news: it will get better.
Bad news: not for a while yet.

Springers take longer to mature than some other dogs and so you could be at this for another year or more yet. But he WILL mature and when he does, the training you fear is lost will start to come back again. That will happen. The trick is to keep at it and not give up before that day.

I honestly think one of the reasons you see well behaved springers is because when they are good, they are very good. But when they are bad, they are horrid and people cannot cope so give them up. And most give them up during adolescence.That just leaves the good ones to be seen.

He is a retriever

Yes and no. For sure, he has a soft mouth to be able to retrieve well but retrieving is not his primary function. This is important, I think, because it calls out a key difference between springers and labs (for e.g.). Labs' primary function is to retrieve, which makes recall a bit easier to train. A springer's primary function, the thing that makes them feel like everything is right with the world, is to flush. To move away from you in pursuit of wildlife and to feel especially glad when that wildlife ups and runs/flies. THIS is why recall is trickier for springers. It's also why you might always struggle with recall when there are rabbits to be chased.

Keep the faith, OP. You might have a loooong wait until he just plods by your side but it will not always be this hard.

[madspringer]

My determination not to be dragged down the street is why it takes us so long to get anywhere! We have put in hundreds of hours of loose lead training, and he's still learning, so I empathise with other owners.

@thiswonthurt - I read those articles and they made me feel awful! Like we were a lost cause... Appreciate that may have been because I read them post-walk one day and was feeling upset already.

@Indecisivelurcher - our trainer advised us to use the longline to prevent him from self-rewarding by chasing/hunting, and to be honest I don't see how we could walk him without it at the moment... His recall isn't good enough, and as we live very rurally we can only walk him in the most stimulating environments for him at the moment (fields), and he'd just be gone. I think we need to scale it back and stop trying to walk in fields, but the current situation is making that hard as it's our only real option.

I'm going to download The Pet Gundog and start it today, thanks for the recc. It's so helpful to hear people say they've been through this and came out the other side - there is hope!

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

Good luck, OP.
I have found longlines really useful. Likewise hunting for tennis balls and brining them to you. It helps if you think of a walk as a training session and aim to get your fun that way. As time goes on, the dog gets more focused on you and more responsive (and you will have begun to learn to read your dog) and then you can 'go for a walk'. TBH, though, with a high drive dog it's worth your while throwing random stops, stays, recalls and retrieves into any walk. I do it with mine - she enjoys it, and it helps me keep control of her.

[Indecisivelurcher]

@madspringer to explain, what I'm saying is don't use a long line, use a short lead and don't let him off! Unless you're in a controlled environment where you are working on recall. In my opinion /experience a long line is still long enough for the dog to be getting kicks with flushing behaviour etc. Plus they're hard to manage. They get all tangled etc.