What do we do re dog and child? So shocked and upset

[Mojitomogul]

We (well my mum) rehomed a collie cross lab 6 weeks ago- from my friend who has had him since a puppy, he's four now. He is perfect in terms of recall, calm nature, gentle play, good with other dogs. We thought we had landed such a lovely dog- and with adults he is. But two weeks in, my two year old nephew- whom the dog had met on walks and been stroked by etc, and was very gentle with him- dog was sitting next to me at mums house and I was stroking him, and nephew came up slowly among side and reached out slowly and gently to stroke dog. Dog then suddenly turned round, growled and grabbed nephews arm(thank god did not draw any blood or even leave a mark, we think it was a warning bite). I was so shocked and since then we have not left any of the nephews alone with dog. But tonight dog has met nieces who are 4 and 6, and 6 year old was sitting on the arm of the sofa, I was next to dog on the sofa. Niece was stroking dog gently on the head and then suddenly dog did exactly the same as he had done with nephew. Thank god I was right next to them and managed to grab dogs head before he even got to nieces arm. So she was unharmed but just upset by the growl. But we are at a loss and so upset. He has such a good life with us, hes not bored or frustrated, loads of toys and 3 hour walks daily. We feel so upset as it just comes out of nowhere. He must be scared of the children as he has never been around them before us rehoming him. What the hell do we do? Can this be trained out of a dog? Is it inbuilt? Shall we rehome him to adults only home? My nephews and nieces are only round every 2 weeks or so but we want them to be safe. Hes absolutely fine with them out in the walks -this has happened only at home. So upset.

[Biscuitsneeded]

Collies have reputation for this. My aunt had one who was lovely and good-natured but did exactly as you describe to my brother when we were small.
I think if your mum keeps the dog then the children can't come round, or the dog is crated while they are there.

[leaveitbe]

So you have a dog sitting in the couch attacking your kids? If that happened in my home that fucker would be through the window!

[slipperywhensparticus]

Vet immediately keep the dog away from the children and you might consider a muzzle in public? and a warning collar lead etc in public

[pigsDOfly]

Were there children in the dog's previous home?

I used to have a friend whose dog was rescued along with about 23 other dogs from a home with several children, who were clearly allowed to do exactly as they liked with the dogs.

My friend's dog was absolutely lovely. Same breed as my dog and although not particularly interested in other dogs was never aggressive with other dogs and was lovely with adults; I actually developed quite a bond with her.

However, if she saw small children, even in the distance, she'd start growling and barking and was clearly terrified.

Fear aggression is probably one of the biggest reasons dogs attack.

Whatever the reasons this dog is reacting, he either has to be rehomed to a home with no children or you need to manage this very carefully by keeping the dog completely away from the children the whole time they're visiting; not always easy.

If you do decide to keep the dog then finding a behaviourist to try to help with this would be a very good idea.

[Toria70]

It sounds like you are over exercising the dog for a start. No dog needs 3 hours of walking a day.

Secondly, get the dog to a vet. It may be in pain. Especially if it is getting too much exercise.

Get a stairgate, and make the dog a safe space away from visiting kids. That way, there is no risk to anyone. Rehoming a dog for kids that visit once a fortnight is a massive over reaction.

[DesLynamsMoustache]

Yep, vet check. He could have vision issues which means he's being frightened by them coming from a particular side or pain (check his ears) that is making him unhappy. In the meantime, no children approach him when he's settled. If he wanted to cause injury, he would have - he's giving a warning, and that's a good thing because a dog who doesn't warn is far more dangerous. He's telling you he isn't happy, and that's good. Now you just have to find out why. I wouldn't write him off or 'put him through a window' (), but you do need to find out whether the root cause is something temporary and easily resolved, such as pain, or deeper-seated.

[DontDribbleOnTheCarpet]

I've kept collies for a long time and this is very common. They tend to attach strongly to one person and will guard them. My current dog likes my husband and works well for him, but he can't raise his voice in the same room as me and he certainly can't touch me if the dog is around.

We've always kept the dog and children separate because he isn't a pet, in your case I would just make sure the dog was put in his own place (mine has his own room, but maybe a large porch or a comfy crate) when the children are around.

[Laiste]

Someone upthread said 'pup'. It's not a pup it's 4 yrs old.

[DesLynamsMoustache]

Also I just noticed both times it happened when he was on sofa with you sitting next to him. It could be that he's guarding you.

[madcatladyforever]

My cat bites hard and does break the skin if approached on the left and will actively attack children who come to the house. She is a rescue with a patchy history.
When I have people in the house she is locked in my bedroom.
I'll never rehome her now. This is her home so I just make sure she is kept away from people.

[Laiste]

The dog may come into contact with children more than once a fortnight though when out on these great long daily walks. Is the dog allowed off lead OP?

[MuthaFunka61]

Agree with the recommendations for a behaviourist and a health check initially. Also agreed that it's wise to keep children and dog separate for the duration of their visits until this is resolved.

G'luck

[Bringbackthebill]

You’ve only had this dog 6 weeks and in that time it’s already had it’s mouth round two children’s arms.
You might not be so lucky the third time

[chocaholic73]

If the children aren't resident, it should be possible to keep them apart. You should never leave children alone with a dog, however, much you trust the dog. It does sound as if the dog was protecting you/guarding the sofa and lots of dogs are fine with adults but don't understand children. Get him checked out at the vets, then talk to a behaviourist.

[spiderlight]

Vet first and foremost. Get his vision and hearing checked and anything that could be causing him pain on that side - an infected tooth or an ear infection can be extremely painful but dogs mask pain incredibly well. Is he walked on a collar or a harness? He might have a neck injury on that side.

If you are 100% committed to working with the issue, ask for a referral to an APDT accredited positive trainer or behaviourist (nobody who'll spout dominance theory to you) and keep all children well away from him in the meantime. Start gentle, positive muzzle training immediately, for when he's out - I knew someone whose dog was fear aggressive towards children and who rehomed her through a rescue to an experienced adult-only home, only to have her slip her lead and bite a child very badly a year or so later :(

Would your friend be 100% honest with you about whether he's done this in the past? Why was she rehoming him? It might be that the stress of the move has unsettled him more than he's let on - the three days - three weeks - three months guide is useful here (there should be an image attached).

[Herpesfreesince03]

Why was the dog allowed the opportunity to attack more children after it had already attacked one?

[reefedsail]

If you've no children of you own, no plans to have any and the nieces and nephew don't visit often I'd keep the dog but make arrangements to keep him very safely separated from them on visits. Crate, a room with a lockable door, dog to someone else's house?

I'd also consider getting him used to a greyhound muzzle for walks. They have a lot of movement in them so they can still pant, but they can't get their mouths round anything.

Some time with a dog behaviourist would probably be well worth it.

[SirVixofVixHall]

A warning like this is not the same as an “attack”.

[TracyBeakerSoYeah]

From having had dogs myself this is what I think could be happening.
You haven't had the dog very long & I don't know if you know it's past history or not.
So dog is new to your environment & trying to settle in. Having spent the last 4 years with one owner, dog is having to get used to a new owner.
Dog may be feeling a bit confused/overwhelmed with the situation, hence dog wanting to be near you i.e. sat with you/next to you on the sofa. Dogs are also pack animals so dog will also feel like he/she is protecting you as you're his/her property.
These small noisy creatures (children) appear & accidentally startle dog. Dog is scared & feels an attack is imminent hence bite. Dog may also think that because it is on the same level with you that it's social status/rank in the pecking order is up there with you.
Hence anything smaller or sat on a lower level or not on your sofa is bottom of the hierarchy & needs reminding of their place.
Dog may also be feeling insecure & a bit jealous.

Now depending on dog's prior history it could be kinder to rehome the dog with people who have no children.
If the dog has usually been good with children then it sounds like it's a combination of the aforementioned so some changes have to be made.
Dog needs to know that all humans are above the dog in the hierarchy. So dog needs to be on the floor not on the sofa with you particularly when children are around as otherwise dog thinks the sofa is his/hers. Make sure that you're dog has it's 'own sofa' e.g. a big cushion/blanket/mat/bed that's just his/hers alone.
The children need to be aware that they can't just sidle up to the dog & stroke it, as the dog needs to see them. It's also important to put your hand out so the dog can smell you as it helps put the dog at ease. (Important with animals)
Now this might sound daft but I think it's important to tell the dog that they are going to be stroked. Whether or not dog understands the exact words or not, it conveys you are giving an instruction. Dogs like instructions as they know where they are/makes them feel secure. (Though we all know some dogs don't listen)

Also as a pp suggested get dog checked out at the vet, incase dog has a vision or other problem.

Finally thank you for reading, I didn't mean it to be this long

[unlikelytobe]

So the kids only visit about once a fortnight? Can the dog just be kept in another area whilst they're there and in the meantime given more training, get advice, control better. He's fine on walks with them but doesn't like being approached, stroked and is not used to children. So, he's generally fine and you like him being in your lives the rest of the time?

Whilst it's completely unacceptable for a volatile dog to be let anywhere near children I do feel a bit sorry for the dog that has already been re-homed once and is still in that settling in period.

[Mojitomogul]

Thank you all so so much for all responses -working our way through all replies. It's just so strange -my friend is one of my closest friends and she is so honest-she said it must be because he has never been around children in his own home-even visiting ones. She rehomed him with us because she started a new job where she is barely home, my mum is in all day. I dont think its over exercise as I probs said 3 hours average a day but it's more 1.5 to 2 hours off lead walk in the morning and then 30 to 45 mins on a lead at night. It's just such a shame as he is so happy every day and literally seems the perfect dog-has never ever shown aggression or even barked at another dog or child on a walk. But it must be something to do with the child being in his space. We are so upset as we feel like if he had been socialised as a puppy around children in the home this wouldnt be an issue now. We have obviously made sure dog and children are completely separate now. Feel stupid now that we even let my niece sit on the sofa but I was right there and he was calm and relaxed, no warning growl before he turned his head. My niece was stroking him so gently he probably could barely feel it so I very much doubt it is an ear infection or tooth infection, it's just been twice with the kids. It's just such a shame, just thinking its innate and because hes never been socialised with them :(

[Thedeadwood]

The dog had already given a serious warning to being around children and then only a couple of weeks later you have placed the dog and more children straight back into the same position?

[Elbeagle]

We had a collie growing up, we got it when I was 4 and my brother was 6, and she lived until she was 17.
She loved my brother and I, but really couldn’t tolerate visiting children. No idea why. We had a utility room which was her space so she stayed in there whenever there were other children in the house.
Perfect dog apart from that!

[Luckyonetwo]

Rehome

[TracyBeakerSoYeah]

Don't feel stupid Mojito.
You were only giving the dog love & affection but not thinking 'dog' iykwim. Something most of us have done.
So the key is now to get your dog accustomed & socialised to children.
There have been some good suggestions by pps.