Dog walking etiquette

[CatUnderTheStairs]

So....it’s a long time since we’ve owned a dog. 8 week Puppy arriving v soon.

What’s the etiquette when she’s had he4 vaccines and can go out and walk.

In off leash places do I let her off and if she goes up to an on lead do* do I call her back?

If on lead walking how long do you let them say hello for before moving on.

I read you aren’t supposed to let them play when on lead.

If both of lead and playing do you only do this if recall is good, which I imagine will take a while.

We’ve got beaches and glens and when she’s bigger we’ll want to let her off. But walking friends bouncy retriever puppy off lead on the beach shed bound up to any dog off lead and that didn’t always seem welcomed. If dog was on lead we’d keep her away.

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

A leash greeting is very unnatural and potentially problematic.
Agreed. I have an older dog who is terrible on the lead and I keep him away from other dogs when he is, only gradually easing up as familiarity starts to kick in. But I have a younger dog who is as good as gold on the lead.

Possibly we're lucky here. I recognise almost all the dogs we see out walking and I know exactly which ones to avoid...

[frostedviolets]

I think to an extent we are talking at cross purposes and are interpreting posts differently
Probably.

Sometimes mine passes it and gives it a sniff before it is rushed away said the poster who originally talked about this Irish setter
That makes it sound as if the dog probably has a very limited number (if any) other dogs and people it's allowed to interact with for more than 30 seconds. IMO, not terribly good for the dog
I don't know, I never ever let my dog greet on leash dogs. Ever. Not even for 30 seconds due to the huge number who have very suddenly gone for her.

A leash greeting is very unnatural and potentially problematic.
The leash hampers natural movement, often makes them greet head on, no escape etc.

They are highly social creatures: street dogs hang out in groups and often insinuate themselves into people's lives
This is very true.

I certainly see your point.
I suppose my viewpoint is rather swayed by having a dog that others often take offence to.

I have met so very many scary, aggressive dogs with at best inept and at worst equally aggressive owners and so many dogs with no ill intention but so ridiculously boisterous that they've really hurt her, she has literally been flattened on the floor by a dog jumping on her once, smashed into a bench another time, I don't trust other dogs or their owners at all anymore and try to avoid.
My intention for the second pup coming soon is to ignore other dogs.

The more I learn about dog body language and the more I observe, the more I see dogs out and about who on the surface appear keen to interact but when you look more closely, they seem to be worried.

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

frosted, I think to an extent we are talking at cross purposes and are interpreting posts differently.

she just wasn't letting it interact with strange dogs and people.
Or, it seems, even with a dog and person who have seen it around enough to know which dog it is:
Sometimes mine passes it and gives it a sniff before it is rushed away said the poster who originally talked about this Irish setter.
That makes it sound as if the dog probably has a very limited number (if any) other dogs and people it's allowed to interact with for more than 30 seconds. IMO, not terribly good for the dog.

I'll repeat what I said: Controlling who and which dogs your young dog interacts with off-lead and on is fine. No interaction, not fine at all.

when dogs are allowed to interact with bouncy, rude, boisterous strange dogs in the name of socialisation.
I'm not advocating that. Nor letting the dog run up to everyone, or jump up, or any of those things. But dogs need interaction, with people and with other dogs. They are highly social creatures: street dogs hang out in groups and often insinuate themselves into people's lives.

Letting a dog just see people and other dogs is not the same as letting it get to them, have some fuss, have a play - in other words, interact. As I said, by all means control that - not every random stranger, not the hooligan hounds in the local park, but the neighbour, and your friend with the collie, and the collie itself, and the labrador you see several times a week out walking and know to be a decent dog.

FWIW I have limited patience with over-friendly, rude dogs. There is one puppy (6-ish months) sometimes where I often train my young dog and I'm about this > < far from telling his bloody owners to respect other people's efforts to have a well-behaved dog and to stop their loon from charging up when mine's in the middle of a sit-stay or a directional retrieve.

[frostedviolets]

frosted, but even if an adult dog doesn't want to interact with other dogs, it still needs to know how to go about it, because unless you never take it out (irresponsible and unkind IMO) it WILL meet other dogs
The Irish setter lady the poster was talking about and that I was responding about was taking it out and about, she just wasn't letting it interact with strange dogs and people.

And then there will be good odds of it either jumping all over them, biting them or cowering fearfully behind its owner, because if it has never interacted with other dogs it won't have a clue what to do: it won't be 'comfortable in the presence of other dogs'
I think there is a way bigger chance of the behaviours you describe when dogs are allowed to interact with bouncy, rude, boisterous strange dogs in the name of socialisation.
They either learn poor habits or they get scared from overly rambunctious behaviour or aggression.

I think it far better to teach the dog to walk calmly past and ignore other dogs with the aid of treats.

Teach them to sit nicely in close proximity to other dogs.

If you know of any nice dogs maybe let them meet carefully and allow them to play once they know each other.

The other dog becomes a perfectly normal everyday occurrence, it's not particularly exciting but it's not scary or negative and sometimes it's sight results in biscuits.

The same with people. You cannot bring up a dog in stupendous isolation away from people and dogs and then be surprised when it loses its mind in the vet's waiting room (other dogs), and then bites the vet, or pisses all over the floor in terror
Not allowing strangers to pet your dog is not 'stupendous isolation'.
The dog is walked, taken to lots of busy places, it gets used to the sight of people but strangers don't interact.

A puppy needs to interact with other dogs and unknown people so it knows what to do, and to get used to the noises and scenarios it will encounter through its life. Otherwise you're asking for a basket case
Depends what you are classing as 'interaction' because if 'interaction' re dogs means let it race about and play with strange dogs you are imo likely to end up with a rude dog that races over to others, may well learn from others to pester and not accept 'no' and may find itself on the receiving end of aggression, maybe becoming aggressive itself.

If 'interaction' re people means let all manner of strangers fuss and coo and stroke the lovely dog you are imo likely to end up with an overly friendly dog that wants and expects affection from everyone and that is problematic because not everyone likes dogs.

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

I think I can be forgiven my interpretation of what frosted said.
She quoted 'she was going to bring the dog up not to have any interaction with other dogs or humans' and then immediately said, 'There's nothing wrong with that'.

There is a lot wrong with that.

Controlling who and which dogs your young dog interacts with off-lead and on is fine. No interaction, not fine at all.

[adaline]

A puppy needs to interact with other dogs and unknown people so it knows what to do, and to get used to the noises and scenarios it will encounter through its life. Otherwise you're asking for a basket case.

Frosted isn't saying no socialisation at all, but that you don't need to let your dog off-lead to run free to get it socialised. There are other (and imo better) ways of socialising your dog. It only takes one unruly or aggressive dog to cause lifelong reactivity in a dog.

I'm quite selective about the dogs mine gets to socialise with because I see so many dogs with horrendous manners and I don't want him to pick up bad habits. He gets plenty of social time and is fine with other dogs. He doesn't need to run around off the lead in a big gang of dogs to achieve that.

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

frosted, but even if an adult dog doesn't want to interact with other dogs, it still needs to know how to go about it, because unless you never take it out (irresponsible and unkind IMO) it WILL meet other dogs.

And then there will be good odds of it either jumping all over them, biting them or cowering fearfully behind its owner, because if it has never interacted with other dogs it won't have a clue what to do: it won't be 'comfortable in the presence of other dogs'.

The same with people. You cannot bring up a dog in stupendous isolation away from people and dogs and then be surprised when it loses its mind in the vet's waiting room (other dogs), and then bites the vet, or pisses all over the floor in terror.

A puppy needs to interact with other dogs and unknown people so it knows what to do, and to get used to the noises and scenarios it will encounter through its life. Otherwise you're asking for a basket case.

[adaline]

A huge, huge proportion of 'friendly' dogs have absolutely dreadful manners and don't take no for an answer.

Totally agree with this. If your dog just charges up to another on-lead dog and won't come back, then he's not friendly - he's bad mannered and should be on the lead until you have him under control. It's not fair on other dogs and their owners to have to deal with that.

[adaline]

Fair enough, however calling people lazy was quite harsh.

Some owners ARE lazy. I never said you were. I also never said all owners of off-lead dogs are irresponsible. I don't know where you got that idea from.

Personally I'm fed up with my dog walking nicely next to me on the lead and being ambushed by other dogs who "just want to play". Sorry, but mine doesn't want to play, because when he was a puppy and off-lead playing in a social situation he was pinned down and bitten by two terriers and now he's scared of large groups of dogs.

What harm does it do to you if someone else is walking their dog on a lead? None. But it is harmful when off-lead dogs (I repeat, not YOUR dog, but other unruly offlead dogs) are allowed to run up to other dogs/people/children because their owner hasn't noticed or hasn't got the control to recall them away.

My dog socialises with the dogs he's comfortable with. But if he's walking on his lead I expect him to be left to walk. He'll say hello other on-lead dogs (quick sniff and move on) with no reaction and that's just fine by me.

[frostedviolets]

I feel very sad when I meet the (thankfully few) people who do not let their dog interact with other dogs. There is one lady in the next road to mine who, from the moment she got her red setter puppy, announced that she was going to bring the dog up not to have any interaction with other dogs or humans

There's nothing wrong with that.
I very much agree with the poster who said the desire to socialise with other dogs is more for the owners benefit than the dogs.

A significant proportion of adult dogs don't actually want to interact with strange dogs they don't know.

A huge, huge proportion of 'friendly' dogs have absolutely dreadful manners and don't take no for an answer.
They are rude and scary and dogs are just expected to greet and play with them happily.

There's a large number of dogs out there who are aggressive as well and their owners are rarely helpful or apologetic in any way.

Its much better for dogs to be comfortable in the presence of other dogs but not approach them unless they know them.
Ditto for strange people.

[Stellaris22]

Fair enough, however calling people lazy was quite harsh. I agree, not all owners are the same, but stereotyping these places as 'bad' constantly is not fair. Yes, there are irresponsible owners, but please don't label everyone the same. I am 'fed up' of comments that all off lead dogs are bad, untrained, menaces. This is not a responsible thing to say to new owners when all you have to do is be friendly and approachable along with the guidelines of having recall trained and etiquette around on lead dogs etc.

[adaline]

The park is one of the places we walk and it's a wonderful community, comments like this are unjust and unfair.

Maybe for you, but not all dogs want to run and play with others. Some have been attacked or are rescues and have issues around other dogs. Assuming that owners who "have their dogs stuck on a lead" are somehow cruel is unfair. I mean, due to their breeds, some dogs have poor recall and are on leads for their own safety.

As for letting them run off and being uncontrollable, we would never let our dogs do that.

I'm not saying everyone who lets their dog is off-lead does let their dog do that, but you can't deny that it happens. If I go to the local beach there are always dogs off-lead who can't be recalled by their owners, and judging by the amount of dog poo I have to dodge on the local paths, a lot of owners don't bother to pick up the poo either.

Personally, I just get fed up of threads that imply you have to let your dog run off-lead with others daily or else you're an irresponsible owner who doesn't want them to socialise and who has their dog "stuck on a lead" all the time.

My dog has plenty of off-lead time but due to his breed we have to be careful where this happens else he'll disappear on a scent and it's just not safe for him to do that. There's livestock all over the place here and dogs are shot for getting in those fields. Mine can squeeze through any gap if there's a scent to follow so for me it's just not worth the risk.

[Stellaris22]

That's not quite right re recall and toiletting in the park. We actually pick up dog poo that we find from owners who have just not bothered. As for recall and letting them run around being a nuisance, also wrong. The park is one of the places we walk and it's a wonderful community, comments like this are unjust and unfair. None of the dogs I know are reactive as they've been given the opportunity to socialise with other dogs, not just stick on a lead all the time. As for letting them run off and being uncontrollable, we would never let our dogs do that. We do let each other know about certain aggressive dogs in the area to avoid.

[adaline]

Socialisation is extremely important. Get it wrong and you could wind up with a fear aggressive dog with no manners who is a danger to himself and every dog he meets.

Socialisation IS important, but it doesn't have to mean letting your dog run off and play with any random dog you happen to meet at the local park.

And letting your dog just run off lead like that is often the lazy way to walk your dog - I see it all the time at the local beach. A load of people standing around with coffee having a natter while their dogs run riot. Nobody pays any attention to their dogs behaviour or whether they're toileting or bothering other owners.

I avoid that area now as my dog just finds it incredibly overwhelming and imo it's not acceptable to let your dog just charge around like a loon without making any attempt to recall it when it approaches others. My dog was bitten as a puppy and doesn't like being surrounded by loads of dogs, but people still think it's okay to shout "oh don't worry, he's friendly" as their out of control dog pesters him. No, I don't care how friendly your dog is - recall him!

[MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig]

Er, DogInATent, please don’t tell me you actually own a dog. Socialisation is extremely important. Get it wrong and you could wind up with a fear aggressive dog with no manners who is a danger to himself and every dog he meets.

[BiteyShark]

Happy to let my dog socialise and play with his pals but not random dogs out with owners I don't know.

Some people are happy to let any dog play with theirs and that's their choice. I prefer not to which doesn't make my choice wrong. I just walk mine off lead in places where other owners clearly think the same e.g. not the local park.

[Stellaris22]

Couldn't agree more! We socialise with a variety of dogs every morning, they run around, share sticks and have a good chase. All friendly and it's interesting to see the dynamics and different relationships they form with each other. Mine definitely has favourite dogs to play with. Some will be more ball orientated but they still play when they want to. Most come over as puppies and none of them are reactive as they've learned from other dogs (alongside usual training).

Plus the social benefit for us owners, it's wonderful.

[CatUnderTheStairs]

No I’ve seen lots of dogs playing who obviously get a lot out of it.

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

It's convenient for us if our dogs get along with other dogs.
It's more than just convenient for us, it's safer for the dogs themselves. A poorly socialised dog which cannot read other dogs is likely to end up either biting or being bitten. Besides, many dogs get considerable pleasure out of playing with each other.

[DogInATent]

Dog socialisation is more for the benefit of the owner than the dog. It's convenient for us if our dogs get along with other dogs. I doubt the dogs care much about it either way.

[mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork]

I feel very sad when I meet the (thankfully few) people who do not let their dog interact with other dogs. There is one lady in the next road to mine who, from the moment she got her red setter puppy, announced that she was going to bring the dog up not to have any interaction with other dogs or humans. Some years have gone by and, thankfully, her dog is still showing a lively interest in all other dogs and also people (it hasn't given up hope!) and seems very sweet and friendly - I do believe the dog's owner is very fond of it just not so keen on anyone else! Sometimes mine passes it and gives it a sniff before it is rushed away. On the flip side of this I sometimes meet people with new puppies/dogs who ask if their dog can say hello to mine (she is quite laid back) and I am very glad to stop and let them meet. I believe that meeting other dogs is a highlight of most dogs' walks.

[CatUnderTheStairs]

Thank you for all the advice. I think we were being thoughtless when walking friend’s v interested in other dogs golden retriever. He was young, goes to puppy day care and assumed every dog wanted to play. And the obviously don’t.

I am taking as the main messages, check with an owner before letting dogs play together, short greet on lead. And of course train in recall and keeping with us.

[Hodgeheg3]

As the owner of an anxious rescue dog I’d echo the great advice you’ve been given above about not letting your puppy approach on lead dogs. The number of times someone has let their dog bound up to mine shouting ‘don’t worry s/he’s friendly and wants to play’ while my poor dog is shaking and terrified. We had a fortnight when my dog refused to go to the park after an encounter with an over-friendly french bulldog and a moronic owner who refused to call his dog away.

[Stellaris22]

Good point earlier about being on lead etiquette. When mine is on lead and I am walking past anyone (dogs, adults, children) I always shorten the lead, or cross the road if it's very busy. Not everyone likes dogs and it's not fair to force dogs on people. I regularly see people with retractable leads just letting their dogs go up to children, some of whom are visibly scared.

[BiteyShark]

I trained recall to a whistle from day 1 in the house then in the garden. When we let ours off at first we used a place that was quiet and where we could easily see him but he was in high grass so stuck to us like glue. Every single walk I have ever done with my dog involves recall training in some way. He gets called back for a play a few times.

Think about what you want to get out of early training. We started training a sit and stay. I go up and grab his collar, give him a stroke and then he gets a ball thrown for him (could be a treat or play). This got him used to a collar grab that doesn't mean the lead is going back on. Obviously a small puppy isn't going to do that from day one but you have to start somewhere.

For bikes, horse riders and runners, at first I put mine on a lead and moved him to the side and praised him. As he got older I used to do sit and stay on the lead. Then off lead. And now I call him and he walks or stays by me until they pass and then he gets a ball throw. Mine won't chase them but by calling him to me it gives the other person clear indication that he is under control when they pass.

For other dogs I am in the camp of never wanting mine to play with unknown dogs. Too much of a risk. If both off lead I walk mine away. As a puppy I would walk in places with lots of space so I could spot them before he did. For on lead dogs never let yours run up to them if off lead. As a puppy that meant on lead again but now it means he gets recalled to walk close.