A little reassurance?

[frostedviolets]

I think I am probably being a bit silly here, anxiety getting the better of me..

There is a thread in AIBU at the moment about pit bulls, which I've left a few comments on.

There are quite a few links about maulings, breeds involved etc.
Rottweilers, GSDs and the like featuring highly in the 'dangerous' camp.

We currently have an exceedingly soft and gentle dog. A border collie.
And due to get a second dog, puppy, in August (working bred GSD).
I have been so ludicrously excited about it, I have loved this breed for years and the breeder we've chosen looks fantastic.

Except I've now gotten cold feet and frightened myself.
We have three young children.

I know that nervousness is a big issue in the breed, and the border collie for that matter, which is the main reason why we went to a working breeder for the collie and have gone down the working bred route again for the GSD.

Am I being silly?

I'm thinking about telling DH to forget the whole thing and go for a Papillon instead, a breed we were actively considering along with the GSD.

[Yamihere]

Sounds like you are really keen on a Papillon. It could definitely work. I would suggest, although you probably are already aware, that picking up small dogs when they are 'misbehaving' can lead to behaviour problems such as biting. Treat the papillon as you would a bigger dog and I'm sure it will be fine

[frostedviolets]

I've not too much experience with papillons but I would be concerned with the size difference between that and your collie. Especially if your collie has a rough play style. Have fun choosing and remember you must post a pic when you get your puppy

It is a big size difference.
I think it will be okay though.
Collie isn't a rough player at all, we have a small cat, around the same size as a Papillon and they play together all the time nicely with no injury.
The cat is rougher than the dog is.

[Yamihere]

*I don't use 'dominance' training ideology like eating first, not letting on the sofa incase they overthrow you etc but I do think that like people, some dogs have more confident, controlling personalities than others.**

Completely agree with you there. Also think you are right not to go with a GSD as the ones I have met are very sensitive to their owners and will probably pick up on your lack of confidence. But you sound like you will be well prepared with socialisation and training plan so perhaps this lack of confidence is unfounded. Also GSDs tend to be a one person dog (not always, big generalisation) as that is what the working strain was bred to be like.
I've not too much experience with papillons but I would be concerned with the size difference between that and your collie. Especially if your collie has a rough play style. Have fun choosing and remember you must post a pic when you get your puppy.

[frostedviolets]

Sone of the language you use to talk about a dog is reminiscent of dominance theory which has no place in dog training whether you get a GSD or a Papillon
I am aware dominance theory has been disproven.
I don't use 'dominance' training ideology like eating first, not letting on the sofa incase they overthrow you etc but I do think that like people, some dogs have more confident, controlling personalities than others.
That is all I meant.

but some of your language and thinking here is very mixed up and misguided
In what way?

I am honestly not sure you’re ready for any sort of dog
Bit late for that, I've had my border collie years!
I had a dog before her too, as did DH.

Perhaps spend some more time around various breeds and dogs in general. Go to shows like Discover Dogs and meet lots of dogs and breeders and talk to them. Volunteer at a local rescue or charity
This will be my third dog.
Not a novice owner.

I would have thought something like a golden retriever would be a better breed or even a lab
I had a golden retriever before my collie.
His temperament was pretty poor to be honest.
They are beautiful dogs but I wouldn't have another.

Not keen on labradors either, met quite a few with not nice temperament aswell.

[ferretface]

I'd be less worried about a super confident challenging GSD than a fearful one since in my experience they tend quite easily to fear aggressive. Seem to be a lot of dog-reactive GSDs, could be a mixture of the training and poor breeding. I doubt that any well bred dog brought up with kids in the house who interact with the dog appropriately would become dangerous to them.

Small dogs like papillons are often not very well socialised and bad behaviour is left to reinforce rather than extinguished because the risk from a small dog seems lower. I think especially with a small dog that could be prone to feeling intimidated it is essential that the socialisation is a really positive experience and the dog has lots of positive experiences interacting gently with large, calm dogs and people.

I would have thought something like a golden retriever would be a better breed or even a lab - they are still very trainable dogs with working drive, even if you see them a lot in pet homes. They are athletic if given the chance to be.

[OnlyToWin]

Thank you 😊

[Thedeadwood]

Sorry - wish you could edit on here. I mean any additional dog!!

[Thedeadwood]

@OnlyToWin it means German Shepherd Dog. Very different from a Papillon!!!

I do think you shouldn’t get a dog youre not 100% on, but some of your language and thinking here is very mixed up and misguided. I am honestly not sure you’re ready for any sort of dog. Perhaps spend some more time around various breeds and dogs in general. Go to shows like Discover Dogs and meet lots of dogs and breeders and talk to them. Volunteer at a local rescue or charity.

[Booboostwo]

German Shepherd Dog

OP I’ve had GSDs and always trained them with positive reinforcement methods. They are very keen to learn and provided they get appropriate exercise, they are very well behaved. Some of the language you use to talk about a dog is reminiscent of dominance theory which has no place in dog training whether you get a GSD or a Papillon. Post a photo when you get your puppy!

[OnlyToWin]

Really sorry but what breed of dog does GSD mean?

[frostedviolets]

Personally, I wouldn't a want a non bred working GSD.

I personally believe dogs should be bred with their working ability in mind, I think when you remove the working ability of a breed you lose something in the dog, their temperament isn't quite the same.
Like with the border Collies, I've met a fair few show lines and they are nice dogs but something seems missing.
They are quite different compared to my collie.

Secondly, I have met quite a few non working GSDs and the vast majority have been fairly hyperactive, neurotic sometimes fearfully aggressive dogs.

Of the nice temperament ones I've met, they were very very friendly.
More like golden retrievers in temperament.
Lovely, lovely dogs but are they really GSDs?
The temperament is different.

I still love and admire the breed but we are going to go for a Papillon.

Maybe I'll feel differently in future but I just don't want to make a mistake.

I know I would be able to train it to a high standard but I don't feel 100% confident in my ability to handle a super confident bolshy dog if it starts challenging me at adolescence because I'm not a super confident bolshy person and that's a problem.

So Papillon it is.

[GSD20]

OP, if you want a GSD can you not go for a non working line?

I have one from a line of pets as therapy and guide dogs. Not all GSD are bred to be flighty and nervous.
She is the most bombproof sweetest dog I’ve ever had, couldn’t be aggressive if I begged her. She hasn’t got any drive unfortunately which has meant training hasn’t been as quick as with my working line but I prefer her temperament wise hands down.

[FleaTrainerExtraordinaire]

I think it's sensible not to get a dog/breed you are not confident about - whether or not your nervousness is based in fact or not doesn't really matter.

Owning dogs as pets should be fun for both the dog and the owner. An owner that is nervous or unsure of the dog is always going to struggle with that, so better avoid that situation altogether, if you can.

[Wolfiefan]

It’s not about respect or a dog feeling it needs to obey you. It’s about praise and reward and making the dog want to please you. You don’t need to be big or confident for that.

[JKScot4]

I think you need to calm down, your inability to take on board anyone else’s point is rather worrying.
Nothing I said is vicious or inaccurate, just pointed out flaws in your thinking.
You’re the OTT drama queen here, stop turning it round to suit your reasons.
I’m done, can’t be bothered dealing with hysterical silly selfishness.

[frostedviolets]

Your line of thought is why vast amounts of dogs end up in rescue

Your attitude is probably why so many dogs stay in rescue...

By your own admittance; you’re nervous, unfit and WANT a large working breed because it looks intimidating, can’t you see anything wrong with this picture?
I want a large working breed dog because I like large, active, althletic dogs who are easily trainable, have high prey/ball drive, are intelligent and want to work for you and please you.

I have always wanted a German shepherd for all of those reasons but got a border collie because it also is all of those attributes and DH thought it would be easier to manage.

The fact a GSD looks intimidating is an additional attractive bonus.
Not the main reason I'd like one.

If you won’t rescue, then consider a dogs traits and needs not your WANT
What the actual shit are you talking about
I DID pick my current dog based on the traits I wanted and I DID pick a GSD based on the traits I wanted.

I don't know where in anything you've written you've got the idea that I am just buying dogs willy nilly on appearance and doing fuck all with them.
That's absolute bullshit.
I am so beyond offended by the utter tripe you've written actually.

I'm the one out for hours everyday exercising the dog/s.
Not my DH.
I'm the one researching the best training methods/toys/activities to best channel and satisfy my dog/s natural drives and instincts.
Not my DH.
I'm the one who spent ages writing out a detailed socialisation and training plan.
Not my DH.

My exact words to DH were 'I am worried that the pup will be beautifully trained and I'll feel really pleased, then it'll hit adolescent and suddenly see right through me.
It'll realise that I am not as confident as I appear and it won't respect me and I'll end up with a big strong dog that doesn't feel it needs to obey me'

If my honest opinion appalls you then that further demonstrates your selfishness, it’s not about what you WANT
No, it demonstrates what a judgemental, vicious individual you are.

[MaitlandGirl]

I’m VERY, VERY biased as we have 2 papillons and a phalene but they are wonderful dogs. So much fun and full of character.

You will need to get a baby sling (ring slings are great) for the walks as it’ll be a year /year and a half before you can reliably walk a pap for up to 4 hours.

[JKScot4]

Your line of thought is why vast amounts of dogs end up in rescue. By your own admittance; you’re nervous, unfit and WANT a large working breed because it looks intimidating, can’t you see anything wrong with this picture?
If you won’t rescue, then consider a dogs traits and needs not your WANT.
If my honest opinion appalls you then that further demonstrates your selfishness, it’s not about what you WANT.
Can people stop suggesting large breeds to nervous nelly.

[StillMedusa]

Have you had a look at Eurasiers? (I know you are heading for a Papillon but still )

Goofy fluff balls, big enough to be a real dog.. and unusual enough that no one knows what they are which is always a nice talking point.
We had no breed preferences, except I didn't want a tiny dog that my dyspraxic son could trip over and hurt, so we went to Discover Dogs to talk to as many breed owners as possible... and it gave us so many mroe ideas which we eventually narrowed down to a Eurasier, and so far she's been a dream dog.
She has the wolfy look of a GSD but is incredibly calm, loves other dogs and is totally devoted to us.

[frostedviolets]

I work in rescue and I’ll be honest your thoughts process for a dog is quite skewed; you don’t choose random breeds because you’ve always wanted it
Oh, so people aren't ever naturally drawn to certain breeds then..?

I'm quite small and not at all strong or fit and sometimes I get a bit nervous walking the dog in more remote places, the idea of a scary looking dog that repels people from approaching appeals to me.
and you were ready to get a GSD??*
Yeah.
I have have had dogs before, I have a working herding breed currently, DH has had dogs before, our dog is well trained and I consider myself a competent trainer.
So yes, I thought I'd get a GSD this time.

Why are you getting a 2nd dog
Because I want one..?

Does your DH do all the walks/training?
No, I do.
I'm out from 7/8am to up to 12 most mornings.
I did pretty much all the training for our current dog and it was me busy writing training schedules for the new puppy.

Im actually quite appalled by your attitude, a dog isn’t just to look good and satisfy your want, what can you give the dog? a fulfilled active life? or just look good?
That's okay, I'm appalled by your attitude too.

[JKScot4]

I work in rescue and I’ll be honest your thoughts process for a dog is quite skewed; you don’t choose random breeds because you’ve always wanted it.
I'm quite small and not at all strong or fit and sometimes I get a bit nervous walking the dog in more remote places, the idea of a scary looking dog that repels people from approaching appeals to me.
and you were ready to get a GSD??
Why are you getting a 2nd dog? Does your DH do all the walks/training? I’m actually quite appalled by your attitude, a dog isn’t just to look good and satisfy your want, what can you give the dog? a fulfilled active life? or just look good? 🙄

[Booboostwo]

Lovely! I feel you owe us a photo a few months down the line though! 🤣

[frostedviolets]

Think we have pretty much decided on a papillon puppy.
Not sure if we are going male or female yet.
Want a tricolour (same as colliedog)

DH mentioned another border collie but I fancy something different.

Let the search commence!

[YoureAllABunchOfBastards]

And just look at that face

[YoureAllABunchOfBastards]

Smooth collies are quite rare though aren't they?

They aren't the most common of dogs but there are several good breeders in the UK. We had to wait for a few months for the right pup.