Should the breeder offer me a refund?

[Orcagirl]

My puppy is 10 months old.

I went through the bleed club and was on a waiting list with a reputable breeder for 1 year before I took her home.

Long story short, she saw a specialist on Friday who confirned she had grade 3 patella luxation in both legs and will likely need surgery. She can't go on walks of any length at present, has been referred for hydro therapy and physio therapy, has arthritis already and is on joint supplements for the rest of her life. He confirmed it is a genetic condition. Both her parents went under extensive health tests and the breeder said she does not understand where it has come from.

It's a really stressful situation and my heart is breaking. Plus the costs are adding up. Someone has mentioned that the breeder should offer the purchase price back. When I have checked out the kennel club they also say this on the website if the puppy falls ill with a genetic condition.

What do i do? She cost a lot of money and the money I paid for would be invaluable right now, for her treatment. She is insured, thank goodness, but I have had the excess to pay plus 10% of the claim and her surgery will go into the thousands. Plus hydro and physio on top of that

Please be gentle on me, I'm upset and stressed about it all.

[SlothMama]

If the breeders did all the nessecary health tests etc then I don't see why you could demand a refund as the puppies now 10 months old. The breeder can't know what puppies will develop what, if they knew about the risks before and sold the puppy willingly then fair enough.

If the dog developed cancer would you ask for a refund then? I'm afraid you'll have to suck it up and be glad you have pet insurance.

[Berkshiremumma]

You say the breeder has put the parents through extensive health checks so I would assume a patella location test has been carried out if this is a known disease within the breed
If the breeder has had this done then I think they have done everything right in trying to make sure these diseases arent present
They cant help it if a few generations back it has cropped up from other breed lines & has made a throwback
Sorry you & your dog are going through this but not sure you'd get any money back
My dog has had surgery on both legs for luxating patella & we took recovery slowly but she still enjoys life to the full & also went back to take part in fun agility. She's nearly 11, I've not kept up with her joint supplements but she's showing no signs of slowing down

[Mama1980]

Ok sorry op but I don't think you can no. It's not the breeders fault sometimes these things just happen.
I haven't heard of anyone who has either tbh. Just part and parcel of being a dog owner.
I hope your dog makes a good recovery.

[Sweetpeach3]

@missmouse101 @BiteyShark
I didn't see that. Also with insurance they don't cover for a lot of medical conditions tied with a full breed (I don't have insurance personallly) but even my vet stayed for the treatments iv had done I wouldn't of been covered anyway this is why I havnt had it.
But vet bills are part and parcel of having a pet sorry op
You never know what their going to do or if their going to injur themselves so you have to be prepared for the bill x

[BiteyShark]

The OP does have insurance but one of those that in hindsight costs a lot when you claim e.g. the 10% on top of any excess so any big bills means the OP still has to find a significant amount which is why I always advise reading the small print carefully.

[missmouse101]

Read the OP! She has got insurance.

[Sweetpeach3]

I'm a registered breeder on the KC website and I really disagree. If both parents were health tested and came back fine it just seems unlucky your pup has fallen ill.
Do you know if any of the other dogs have fallen ill with the same conditions?

My DDog now 6 has just got a hernia (can be common) but he said to me the most health problems you get in dogs are with pure breeds.... mixed breeds seem to bi-pass everything ! Sod's law
For starters you should have insurance to cover this!
And if your asking for your money back does this mean you want to return your puppy to the breeder ?

It isn't the breeders fault your puppy has fallen ill so you can't expect them to pay for it if you've no insurance. They've nurtured the dog from. Been born and he came to you in perfect health. Just a risk you take with anything that you can't predict the future
Hope he's okay x

[adaline]

Conditions like LP aren't necessarily genetic - why is your surgeon so convinced that it is?

[SomeoneBeatMeToMyUsername]

Around 2 years ago we had a very similar situation with one of our dogs. It was a different problem - in our case a known, although uncommon condition in the breed. We discovered the issue when he was 18 months, and immediately informed the breeder. He was really great, offered only apologies and advice for around a month but then suddenly offered a 50% refund (which was still a lot of money!). We refused it at first as we’d never heard of this being done and felt it wasn’t his fault as both parental lines were checked, pups were checked as thoroughly as possible etc, but he insisted it was the done thing. It did help towards costs, such as travelling to therapy sessions and paying the insurance excess.

So what I’m saying is, it does happen, it just depends if you’re ballsy enough to ask. I guess they can only say no, but I’m not sure I’d be brave enough!

Good luck.

[SchoolNightWine]

My girl is 17 months and just had the op on her cruciate and patella. She has grade 2 luxating patella in both knees and that has almost certainly caused her cruciate injury as she's too young for it to be wear and tear. She is a very energetic breed though and we often cringe when out with her seeing the jumps she makes, so almost not surprised something has happened.
If yours isn't so energetic then I'd do some really strict rest now - cage rest for most of the day, not just short walks - and it might be enough, although only the op is going to make the groove deep enough to stop the kneecap slipping out.
I think you can only expect a refund from the breeder if you give the dog back. We have not gone down this route as just think it's a case of bad luck. Also, could never give my dog up - now just doing all we can to get her better.
I was devastated when we got the diagnosis, but the op hasn't been as bad as I thought so far. Might feel different soon as she's caged for 6 weeks with only 4 x 5/10 minute walks a day She's a lively cocker spaniel!

[Wheat2Harvest]

Won't your pet insurance pay for the vet treatment?

You do have pet insurance?

[GooseFeather]

You need to understand the difference between a genetic condition and a hereditary condition. Whilst there is some overlap, they are not the same. So, you have a small breed dog with bow legs (probably). It has been bred that way because of this being perceived as good for the breed (I disagree). This predisposes the dog to PL, so it is a genetic disease, but not a hereditary disease which can be excluded from a bloodline. A litter of 6 or 7 pups might reasonably be expected to have 1 or 2 with issues, but that is not the same as the breeder actively knowing and being able to prevent it.

Hereditary diseases are usually those which come about as the result of a spontaneous mutation in the genome which allows them to be passed down through generations. These can be tested for, if the mutation is identified and a test developed. If a breeder knowingly had a litter from a dam/sire combination carrying the genes for this, absolutely you would be entitled to a refund.

[rotavixsucks]

What's the breed or type of dog? If it's not a common condition within the breed I would put it down to bad luck.

Luxating patellas can be congenital or can be caused by a disruption to the surrounding structures. Have there been any occasions of jumping awkwardly or getting a leg caught on something?

As for asking for a refund it wouldn't even cross my mind; it's a living breathing animal not a car. Whilst sad and unfortunate it is just one of those things; if the parents had all the relevant tests and the mating was carefully planned there's nothing the breeder could've done to prevent it any more than you.

[Orcagirl]

Thankyou bobs. I just want her to be OK, it's reassuring to know there is some success with treating this condition.

[Bobs121]

Your breeder does sound like one of the good responsible ones
Health tests
Lifetime support and contact with puppy people
Testing breeding dogs
Contract etc
All good stuff there

[Bobs121]

No, patella issues can happen without it being genetic, it can be environmental and also injury related. (Slipping on Laminate, jumping on and off sofa etc)
If you want a refund the breeder will have right to take your dog back. In law they are property. You would not expect a refund on a car but still keep the car (not saying its right just stating the facts here).
I know Patella can happen even if both parents and many generations are tested clear. Your vet cannot and shouldn't just chalk to genetics as thats not possible without studying the pedigree and thentesting results. Its merely a sceptical guess at best. Yes it can run in lines but not always.
Using the car analysis again
Again you wouldn't buy a car and then a year later expect the previous owner to pay for repairs? IF they gave a warranty that covered the broken thing then you could but if not its your call.

Patella like Hips and elbows can be tested for but ive known excellent hips produce terrible ones, its multiple genetic and environmental so more complex than things like the dna tests (that are set in stone).
Hope that helps and also just as a reassurance the Patella operations done now have great success, most important will be the rehabilitation is followed to the letter, your dog is kept slim and fit and on a good diet with joint suppliments (something like Vetvit flexijoint plus from healthspan - vat free and super cheap)
Hope this helps

[Motorina]

In law the puppy is a product that you have bought. I could see that you could reasonably go down the consumer rights route and argue that you have paid a premium price for a high quality dog, and the one you have received has a fault. However - as when getting a refund for anything faulty - I don’t see that you could reasonably expect both to keep the dog and get your money back. A refund normally means returning the purchased item.

[TheHodgeoftheHedge]

Is it definitely a genetic condition
Yes it definitely is

Actually that’s not strictly true. PL has a very large genetic component to it and no dog with it should be bred from, but actually there’s a large amount that still isn’t truly known about its causes and the genetic link is not the sole reason a dog might develop it. The fact that your breeders dogs are apparently health tested and clear from it and you say it’s not a breed where it is a known health condition all tallies with that.

I am truly sorry that your pup is suffering.

[Floralnomad]

I would not expect a refund unless you can prove that they have knowingly bred from dogs with the condition . Our dog has bilateral luxating patella diagnosed at about 18 months ( grade 2 so not as severe) , he’s 9 now and we’ve managed him with diet , exercise and joint supplements .

[Fishcakey]

I didn't mean to sound like such a cow there by the way! Sorry!

[Fishcakey]

It wouldn't occur to me to ask but then I wouldn't buy from a breeder in the first place. My Spaniel has luxated patellar. It doesn't necessarily mean surgery. She is ten now.
Why are you paying 10% of the claim? Who are you insured with. We pay £60 and that's that with Tesco. She has a lifelong policy.

[Wizzbangpop]

Yabu my ddog has a luxating patella no idea what grade probably less that your ddog. But even if it was severe I would never dream of asking the breeder for a refund. She first got it when she was about 20 months but even so.

I hope she gets better soon, have you been offered a splint we were but didn't really get on with it. Poor dog seemed to cope better with the fairly frequent episodes to the sloping. She would run away at the mention of the word.

I do feel for you because it is horrible to your dog in pain like that especially when there doesn't seem much rhyme or reason to it.

[Moneyplants]

I would hope the breeder would speak to all other puppy owners and never breed from those parents again.
Agree with this.

[Moneyplants]

If the breeder has done all they could reasonably be expected to in terms of choosing healthy parents having checked bloodlines as much as a breeder normally should, getting all recommended tests done on both parents and pups then I wouldn't ask for a refund. It would only be if I suspected irresponsible actions on the part of the breeder, e.g. Inbreeding or using parents with a bloodline that included dogs with health problems.

[VocalDuck]

Why don’t your contact the Kennel Club and ask what their advice is and then speak to the breeder?

As a child we had a pedigree cat who was quickly diagnosed with terminal cancer and the breeder immediately offered to have her back and when we kept her (we wanted her to live out her days in a quiet and loving home rather than with lots of other cats), she gave us another kitten (with no charge) a few months later when our cat had died.