Did I kick her dog?

[missbattenburg]

Ok, I need a bit of a rant – and maybe to be told I behaved like a dick. There are 2 labs in the village that are friendly but have poor recall. Battendog has been on a long trailing lead lately as we’re working on trying to get distracted by other dogs. In the past he and this male lab have fought over treats. All blust and no damage. Battendog can guard food/toys against other dogs and we have been working on that.

Three times in a row the male lab (followed by the female) has run up to us in the field, often bringing a stick or toy with him. The owner has taken several minutes to get to us and I have struggled with the 3 dogs all milling around by my feet. Battendog looking like he might bust with frustration trying to get the stick and the labs also jumping up around my chest as they both want the hotdogs I carry. Tense moments.

The fourth time the lab helped himself to a mouthful of hotdog and as he withdrew his head from the treat pouch, scattered loads all on the floor around us. Battendog stood like a stone, tense and ready to fight. The lab hoovered all the treats up and came back for more. By this time the female was over and also jumping up. I had muddy pay prints around the collar of my shirt when I got back to give sense of how high they jump. The owner was on her way but still a long way away and recall was not working. I had Battendog’s lead in one hand and my other covering the treats to protect them.

At this point the owner claims I kicked her dog. I honestly cannot remember. What I do know is that I could not have deliberately taken aim and come onto contact with the lab with my foot with any force. It would be so out of character for me that I surely would remember it. What I can imagine doing is using my leg (both hands taken) to keep him away – maybe by raising the leg, maybe by using the side of the calf to push him, maybe by pushing my foot out to try and block him, maybe stepping forward onto that foot in a deliberate manner to try and block or cause him to step back. I definately remember swearing at him and telling him loudly and forcefully to get down.

Today I tried to approach her (we see each other often) thinking we might be able to talk it out. She basically had a go at me, saying my behaviour was “outrageous” and that there was no reason for me to go around kicking other people’s dogs.

I feel so shit about it. It’s a small village and I would hate to think anyone round here thought I was hurting dogs. Have I been a dick?

[Theoscargoesto]

Hi. I think, as PP and you have said, that you may have, in the heat of the moment, tried to protect yourself, the treats and/or your dog by moving your legs in some way but I don't believe that you could have unknowingly pulled your leg back and aimed a kick at the other dog(s). So I think your conscience can be clear on that point.

I also think you were very restrained in how you acted and what you said, and that the other owner is wholly in the wrong here. It's not ok for any dog to be jumping up and ignoring its owner's attempts to recall it. Sure, that happens, but when it does the correct response is to get to you as soon as possible, grab the dogs and apologise profusely for their behaviour, not to blame you for what happened! If, as others have said, the dog had behaved this way to someone less strong (who might have been knocked over by the jumping) or less calm in your reaction, things could have been a lot more serious, and I for one commend your composure!

One thing you said though about it being a village and everyone knowing each other: I think that adds a different dimension. But I guess that woman's attitude is well known and what will also be known is how you behave to your dog and around other dogs, and that you would not, and did not, hurt her dogs.

[longearedbat]

You were not in the wrong at all. I had large 3 large dogs barrel towards me and my little dog (on the lead) and it is terrifying. The owner was visible in another field but there was a hedge in the way so she couldn't see what her dogs were doing, and she didn't care either. Shouting 'Control your dogs!' just got a rather bemused look. Yes, I fended them off with my feet, but I was still covered in mud and slobber, and I had to pick my dog up because I didn't know their intentions. In the past I have also had previous little dogs attacked by loose dogs, so I am very nervous. There is nothing quite like picking up a screaming small dog which has another dog attached to its leg or body, in an attempt to stop it from getting killed. There are some evil uncontrolled dogs about.
Report her to the dog warden.

[pigsDOfly]

She's one of those owners isn't she?

You do not have to tolerate her large dog's leaping all over you and just stand there and let them get on with it, you have a right to defend yourself by pushing them off, both with arms and legs. I think you'd remember if you lifted your foot and kicked a dog.

I imagine that other people in the village have had runs in with her and her out of control dogs so I shouldn't worry about your reputation.

I wouldn't bother to try to talk to her again, she sounds totally unable to see that her dogs are out of control. Definitely put your nose in the air and keep as far away from her as possible.

[fivedogstofeed]

She should be absolutely mortified that her dogs jumped on you. To shoulder height ffs?
If they did that to someone less steady in their feet or less dog loving than you she'd have the police round.

[Flobochin]

Control you bloody ddogs or I will take measures to keep it off my person. If that means kick him away then so be it!!
Bloody cf owner imo!!
Your ddog was very controlled btw!! My Lurchers would have spontaneously combusted!!


Agree with this; keep dogs under control or leash them. I have smallish dogs and get pissed off with out of control dogs being a bloody nuisance. If a dog won't come to you on recall, it's out of control.

[SecretNutellaFix]

I think she sees the wide open countryside we live in and thinks it would be lovely if all the dogs could run free and play and interact with each other.

I hope you don't have sheep in the fields around you because if they are out of control in a sheep field then the farmer whose sheep they are has the right to shoot the dogs on sight.

She's the sort of person who gives owners of big dogs a bad name. My neighbour has 2 young Labradors. They're big, loud and friendly. and are always on lead when in an unsecured area. Precisely because they ARE big, loud and friendly and see new people and dogs as their bestest buddies in the whole wide world and want to love them. She always has them under control.

Good work on trying to train your dog to be well behaved in public.

[Greyhound22]

You'll probably find she has the reputation in the village and that everyone crosses the road when they see her and the ill mannered labs approach....

[FrangipaniBlue]

[missbattenburg]

FrangipaniPup

I just said this out loud and it made me giggle

[FrangipaniBlue]

FrangipaniPup has zero recall around other dogs, for that reason he is kept firmly on the lead.

If he's off leash and I see someone approach with another dog on a lead I clip him back in.

The only time he is unleashed and allowed to approach another dog is if the other dog is also off leash AND I have confirmed with the owner they are happy for me to "let him go"

My absolute pet hate is uncontrolled dogs running up to me when he is on his lead. He goes crazy wanting to play but at 20kg (only 7 month old) he can pull me off my feet!

YWNBU even if you had kicked the sodding dogs away

(And I say this as someone who had words with a fellow dog owner only yesterday because she attempted to kick FrangipaniPup for doing nothing more than sniffing and wagging his bum at her precious little handbag dog )

[missbattenburg]

Yes, you are all right. Thanks very much to everyone who has answered - it has at least helped put my mind at rest that I am not some forgetful dog kicking fiend.

If any of you want to recognise me in the future - I shall be the one with her nose in the air, walking in the opposite direction to two bouncy labs. I'll also be the one with a hide as thick as a rhino's. I shall just have to rely on my decent reputation in the village to withstand the tales she will tell about me to others...

[BiteyShark]

I think she sees the wide open countryside we live in and thinks it would be lovely if all the dogs could run free and play and interact with each other.

Arghhh I hate this especially as my dog only wants to play with me when we are out together and gets fed up when I take away his ball if another dog comes up as they tend to steal it.

Maybe I just need to chalk this one up to experience and accept I am probably going to get the cold shoulder and a few dirty looks if we pass in the street now.

I would declare that as a result

[OverFedStanley]

I look at my interactions with humans in the same way as I train dogs- probably not the right way to go but hey ho

What behaviour do I want to achieve? No interaction with the ladies dogs.

How can I achieve that? Keep out of her way you will not change her, you can not train her dogs, you can report her but she will not change so all you can do is keep you dogs safe and away from her.

I would be walking away from her and always keep a very big distance between her and my dogs at all times - no interaction no problem

[ABC1234DEF]

I stand to be corrected but my understanding is that labs tend not to bite but mouth, even when they are boisterous

All dogs are capable of biting (even those without teeth!). Labradors top the list of breeds responsible for most dog bite injurie to humans and personal injury claims year after year

[Bookworm4]

The lab owner is in the wrong, she will be well aware of her dogs atrocious behaviour and is trying to deflect by blaming you. Jumping to shoulder height is unacceptable and potentially dangerous. Labs only mouth not bite is possibly the most ridiculous things I've read!! Of course they bite all dogs can, this misconception of friendly safe breeds needs to stop. I'm surprised if her dog has health issues that he's off lead, she sounds a right muppet.

[PositivelyPeach]

My dogs are both overexcitable little shits that love everyone and everything, especially children and babies. So they stay on their leads, unless we are in an area where we are unlikely to encounter anyone, or they are calmed enough to remember their recall.

My dogs are tiny (pug & terrier) but if they surrounded and jumped up at another dog on a lead and their owner I would be absolutely mortified. I would accept that some force (within reason, no yelping) was potentially necessary. I would be upset about it, because the situation should have never have happened, but I wouldn't be blaming the person they jumped all over!!

However, mine are never in the position to do this - as a responsible dog owner I recognise their faults and gaps in their training. They are my dogs, I love them and would protect them to the end of the earth but they aren't perfect, and other people/animals shouldn't have to encounter their friendly, but unwanted attentions.

The lab owner is clearly in the wrong here, on lead dogs should never be approached without invitation. If your dog had snapped and injured one of them you would have been at fault then as well. Unfortunately I think the best course of action is just to try and avoid her and the dogs.

[missyB1]

Labs are too bloody big to be allowed to jump on people. I had a lab run into me by accident the other week when it was playing with my mini schnauzer, (she loves big dogs and they love her), I have a whacking big bruise which is all colours of the rainbow on my leg from that. My fault entirely though I should have got out the way. If that lab had jumped at me I'm pretty sure it would have knocked me over, I'm quite petite.

[Greyhound22]

She's in the wrong completely and she's going to (quite rightly) have someone report her to the police for out of control dogs.

I love dogs more than people but I would have no qualms at all about kicking a dog to protect myself, DS or DDog. I absolutely hate being jumped up and a big dog like a lab could cause serious injury.

She is the dick and needs to control her dogs.

Also I will have a go at people that let their dogs gallop up to mine and harass him - he's elderly and going blind - I can see why you are upset but absolutely hold your head up you've done nothing wrong at all.

[TheInvestigator]

Who do you report out of control dogs too? Is there anyone you can report too Who would have a chat with her as a pre-emptive measure? Hers dogs are out of control and you've had several encounters... I know nothing about dog stuff but can you tell a dog warden or something and ask then to speak to her?
Or have a cease and desist letter sent to her regarding her dogs repeated out of control behaviour towards you?

[Minkies11]

Really don't think you did anything wrong tbh - it just sounds like you were blocking the dog with your raised leg which is passive. Other owner must know she has recall problems with hers and is just being defensive. Think you reacted well especially as you had your own on the lead and there was no escalation between the two dogs. Ignore her!

[BollocksToBrexit]

Tell her that next time you'll kick her instead. I can't stand dog owners who don't control their dogs. My little dog was nearly killed by an out of control 'friendly' dog. Apparently her dog was gentle so mine must have started it. FFS, mine was on a lead and hers shot across a busy road to attack him and was still attacking once he was picked up. DH had to hold our injured dog up above his head until the fucking useless owner got hold of hers.

[CallMeRachel]

I think she has deliberately thrown an accusation at you in attempt to divert from the real issue, which was the fact her dogs were out of control and could have caused injury to you and your dog.

She is a dick.

Report her to the dog warden. She should have those dogs on leads if they have no recall.

Attack is the best form of defence so that's what she's doing.

If you kicked a dog you'd remember doing it. What a low life she is. I'm actually angry for you.

[missbattenburg]

On the previous fight occasion we both kind of accepted it, both agreed her dog made the first move but Battendog was definitely quick to respond so we chalked it up to half a dozen of one and six of the other.

My concerns were less that they were threatening me - from my own pov bouncy dogs are not as issue. I have no concerns at all, other than the irritation of a muddy blouse and scratches.

My concern was that if the dogs were to fight:

a) I do not have enough spare hands to separate them
b) I had been working so hard on Battendog's guarding that I didn't want anything to set him back
c) the other dog has had these health issues and I didn't want even the most daft of fights to injure him
d) it could create problems between the dogs in the future and so I could be facing potential fights every time they run over
e) Battendog was on a long lead that could easily get tangled or tied up between them
f) I had observed the lab react to an on lead dog a few days earlier. I think it was frustrated greeting because he was barking and lungy, but then turned and tried to bite his lead as if to get free. I did not want anything to happen that would make this reaction worse for him

I definitely think she doesn't see an issue with it. She commented the other week on a notice in the local paper asking for dogs to be kept under control and kind of shrugged it off as 'no one can control their dogs, can they?'. I think she sees the wide open countryside we live in and thinks it would be lovely if all the dogs could run free and play and interact with each other.

Maybe I just need to chalk this one up to experience and accept I am probably going to get the cold shoulder and a few dirty looks if we pass in the street now.

[FrozenMargarita17]

My dd has been knocked over by a lab before in a park. We were about 10m away from the kids playpark. I was fucking furious and the owner didn't even try to walk over to where we were. Rude arsehole and badly behaved dog. I would have stuck my knee out to stop him if I had been able to so I wouldn't feel bad if you had in your situation.

[Nettleskeins]

I stand to be corrected but my understanding is that labs tend not to bite but mouth, even when they are boisterous. Do you think this is one of the reasons she felt so angry with you, and couldn't understand that you considered them threatening? She is basically claiming that you have a dog that is growly and bitey and you have the problem not her. So I don't see much likelhood of her apologising for her dogs, sadly. I know a lot of lab owners who always come up with the he wouldn't hurt a fly approach, usually they don't but it doesn't mean that it doesn't feel uncomfortable for those of us who don't have labs.