Seller lied about new dog - please help

[Biddie191]

Hi
Sorry for the long post, but I really would appreciate help!
Having searched for a while, we finally found the dog we wanted. I asked the seller a LOT of questions, as we had quite a way to travel, and I didn't want to visit and fall for a dog only to find it wasn't suitable.
Living on a small farm, and in a rural area, number one priority was that the dog was good with livestock, most specifically with sheep and chickens. My son has chickens he saved up to buy himself from a chicken farm, and he loves them. This was carefully explained to the seller.
Second was that the dog was house-trained - as the dog is a year old, training should be established, as trying to start at this age is far harder, and finally, the dog must be trustworthy off the lead (so come back when called).
I was told the dog was fine with animals, including chickens. I was also told that she was house-trained and would come back to you when called.
Getting the dog home, we decided not to let her off the lead until she was settled, and knew us well, but the 2nd day she shot off out of the door when one of the children was bringing shopping in. She proceeded to run straight to my son's chicken run, and massacre his hens. In her frenzy she would not stop until my daughter rugby tackled her to the ground, and still she wouldn't let go of the bird in her mouth.
She is not at all house trained - despite being walked 5 or 6 times a day, when she's loose she will just squat on the floor, even if she's just come in from a long walk, and doesn't seem guilty about it (so doesn't seem aware that it's not on). Obviously you expect some initial 'accidents' but it's not improving.
She is selectively deaf, and only comes to you when she wants (ie when you have treats, and even then when there's nothing else going on more entertaining)
After the massacre I messaged the seller to tell her, no response. We've worked with her for a few weeks now, but have been unable to let her off the lead at all when outside. She escaped again at the weekend, I called to her, with her favourite toy, she half came to me, then shot straight around to the chicken run again. Fortunately we managed to grab her as she squeezed under the gate, so no deaths, but her intention was clear.
It is only a matter of time before she gets out again, and kills, whether our hens, the neighbour's hens or sheep, the neighbour's cats.... She can't stay, as this is not something any of us can cope with.
Messaged seller again, who ignored me, until I threatened legal action. I've read up on it, and it seems that as she lied (in writing) she has to take the dog back, and refund the money, but she is adamant that she doesn't have to.
What can I do?

[itsnowthewaitinggame]

I'm sure you could crack the toilet training pretty quickly. However I know that my own lovely terrier could never, ever be trusted around small animals, rabbits, chickens etc. as her nature is being prey driven. ( I'd not call it obsessive it's just within her nature to chase and kill, she's an excellent ratter)
I've had lots of dogs, some will chase small animals to start with but can easily be trained not to. I think it really depends on what breed this dog is.

[AllTakenSoRubbishUsername]

Taking this woman to court sounds like a very expensive and not necessarily successful process. I would rehome the dog where there aren't chickens, and go to a reputable breeder for the right breed, carefully raised in the right way. Cut your losses.

[KurriKurri]

Can you say the breed of dog ? Some breeds the prey instinct is so strong it would be very hard to overcome.

The toilet training I think is ressolvable with patience and hard work.

What reason did the seller give for rehoming a one year old dog ? This in itself would make me a bit wary.

Not sure where you stand legally, maybe you could try a solicitors letter requiring a refund and compensation for the chickens by X date ?

Do you want to keep the dog despite the problems ?

[GreyHare]

I think sadly you have been very gullible, people don't sell on year old perfectly trained dogs, they just don't, sorry.

[Mitzimaybe]

You have written proof that she said one thing before purchase and the exact opposite afterwards. I'd be demanding full refund and to return the dog and considering small claims court if she refuses (although unless you paid a huge amount of money it is unlikely to be worth it.)

Look the seller up online and leave bad reviews everywhere you can.

I'd have been suspicious of why a one-year-old dog was being sold - normally if there's no problem with them they are sold as puppies. Friends I've known who have adopted slightly older (but still young) dogs have all had problems with them.

[otheractivities]

Why were they selling the dog , is probably the first question you should have asked

Dogs arent cars , they are animals therefore unpredictable . The dog have been perefectly well behaved with the previous owner .

[adaline]

You have written proof that she said one thing before purchase and the exact opposite afterwards. I'd be demanding full refund and to return the dog and considering small claims court if she refuses (although unless you paid a huge amount of money it is unlikely to be worth it.)

But why? What's the point?

You can never, ever guarantee what a dog's behaviour will be like in a different environment with different people. Even the best trained dogs can struggle in say, kennels or home boarding or if they have to go to new owners for whatever reason. This is a young puppy - of course she won't be impeccably trained.

And OP was, in the nicest way, a fool. She bought a dog from a stranger on the internet and chose to believe what she was told. Why would anyone sell a well-trained 1yo dog to someone they've never met? This woman had an untrained dog she didn't want and sold it on to someone for an easy life. Thousands of people do it everyday. That doesn't make it right, of course.

Decent people don't sell their dogs over the internet. If you end up in a situation where you can't keep your dog for whatever reason, decent people either rehome to family members or go through rescues and do it the right way. They don't sell the dog to a stranger from hundreds of miles away. OP could have been anyone.

Just take this as a lesson learnt, OP. You made a mistake but that doesn't mean you can't train this dog and turn it around. If you don't want to do that (or don't have the time for that), do the right thing and take the dog to a rescue centre so it can be looked after and re-homed to a family with the time and knowledge to help it.

[Alfie190]

Please don't sell the dog on privately, she will end up being pushed from pillar to post. If it too much to take her on, you need to find a dog home than can get her ready for her forever home.

But I think I would pull in some help now. I was a first time dog owner four years ago so I got some professional help in, she was booked for the day I brought the puppy home and then I had weekly sessions. Two years later I brought her back in for a few weeks as he developed a bad habit I couldn't break. She could though and I learnt some more skills in the process.

[Theoscargoesto]

I think it's a misrepresentation, a fraudulent one, and you are entitled to a remedy (former lawyer, but this isn't my area of expertise). Just wrote long post which has disappeared, and now have to go out. Will re-post later. It was a list of things to do to put yourself in the best position you can should you decide to look at this further.

[Shootingstar20]

I know I’m probably going to get hate for this, but my mum had a jack russell like this wanting to kill livestock for fun and fight other dogs and had no manners. In the end, as she loved the dog dearly, she brought an electric shock dog collar and disciplined the dog immediately after it had done something wrong or had been caught in the act. After a few weeks, the Jack was a completely different dog and was well behaved for the remaining 13 years he lived for! I guess some people may find it brutal but instead of palming the dog off to be a pain for someone else (a dog isn’t just for Christmas!) she dealt with it in what she felt was right as we too grew up on a farm.
As for legal action, I wouldn’t bother! Train the dog and either keep it or give it to a family that will love it as it seems you haven’t grown to it, as you said the dog is around 1 it’s not too late, as they say, an old dog can always learn new tricks :)

[Biddie191]

Tropic Plunder - yes, I think the chickens, and my son being so stoic about it all, is affecting me and my judgement more, and also the feeling that I have been so stupid and naive.
My other 2 dogs, who are terriers and good ratters, I trained by taking them in with the hens, on a lead, and just lots of positive re-enforcement when they ignored the hens. They'd already learnt 'no' as a command to leave things alone, so any moves towards the hens (in a 'yum' way) were met with a stern 'no'. Strangely it was really very easy, neither showed any inclination to go after the hens, and will come into the run with my son to look for rats, when he collects the eggs, but are really trustworthy with the birds.

[Biddie191]

Adeline - I didn't look for a puppy as I'm too stupid, and trusting.
I've re-homed year old and 2 year old dogs before, with little in the way of issues. Obviously had some slight teething problems, but nothing major, and went on to live long lives happily in the family. One was being re-homed due to a bereavement, an other as it was too bouncy with their children, others were people who hadn't realised the commitment of a dog, and it didn't fit their lifestyle. Both people were honest and wanted the best for their pets, which is why it worked, as I knew where we were starting out. Naively I trusted this woman, and having had good experiences before, went with it, thinking I'd be doing some good.
This one was apparently bought for the grandchildren, but they moved away / new house didn't allow pets, and grandmother not wanting to keep her. Probably also lies.
I will persevere with her, I'm not one to give up easily, but I really am side-swiped. My biggest fear is her killing one of the neighbours' sheep / lambs / hens, as theirs are far more free range, and accessible. The biggest worry will be if and when to ever try to trust her enough. As I said, when on a lead she doesn't even look at them, but the 2 times she's got out, so off the lead she's been straight in 'kill' mode.
Any help, tips etc on training methods which have a decent chance of working hugely appreciated.

[Biddie191]

Oh, and she is a Jack Russell Terrier. I've had them all my life, my other 2 are (well, 1 JR, the other a JR cross) and although wilful, are trainable. I've never known one quite this determined.
We have had her around a month now, I know that's not a huge length of time in the big scheme of things, but we just don't seem to be moving forward.

[ExcitedForChristmas18]

When she is out for the moment, just pop a muzzle on her. Contact a dog behavioural specialist and work with them. These issues can be sorted!!

[adaline]

If she's never had any training before it's going to take quite a while - she'll need to get used to you and to actually being trained, bless her.

You'll probably need to go right back to basics with toilet training and I would get her enrolled in puppy classes ASAP. She will get there, it will just take time and a lot of patience!

[itsnowthewaitinggame]

I had a feeling she was a Jack Russell. Most impressed you've trained your other two to not attack the chickens. My terriers aren't JR but similar, I thought I'd trained one not to chase ( to kill) next doors cats. But I was too cocky too soon! Luckily the cats are very fast and tend to stay away from our garden mostly. I'd stick with this little pup for a while as you clearly have so much knowledge of terriers. And I agree with Excited about using a muzzle for a while

[spidereye]

I rescued a poodle cross (some kind of terrier, I believe) and she has a massive prey drive. The guinea pigs have to be barricaded in the shed, but the cats soon taught her who was boss. Had a scary moment in the Lake District when she went after a sheep, so we have to keep her on the lead when there is livestock around. , I'm sure the house training will be straightforward with a bit of perseverance

[adoggymum]

That's so sad for your son- he must be devastated with all the hard work he put in with his chickens- did the dog kill them all?

What kind of breed is the dog out of interest?

[adoggymum]

Ah just seen it's a Jack Russel- they're horribly prey driven, one attacked and dragged our poor cocker spaniel (who is the sweetest bloody thing!) around on his first time on lead when he was 3 months old😞 we had to swoop in and risk getting bitten to rescue him! The owner did nothing and the dog was off the lead- I gave him a bollocking.

[fivedogstofeed]

You've had a horrible experience op but there's every chance you can turn this around. Housetraining an older dog is exactly the same as a puppy except it doesn't take as long. Chicken training is another matter and may involve making the chickens more secure before you can progress.
Any dog will absolutely go through an electric fence with no problem - electric fences do not work for containing dogs.

I have had many experiences of people selling or giving away their dogs online. I have been told lies every time, without exception. You've been handed a dog who has been kept outside with little human interaction and no training - and this is your starting point with this dog, not the pack of lies this woman told you to get rid of her

[fenneltea]

Agree with JR's being really prey driven, we owned one which was an ex gamekeepers dog, its one mission in life was to attack (and kill) everything, size was no issue!

As yours is still young then it may be possible to modify her attacking behaviour, but it will take lots of work and you will probably never be able to trust her. As you've got vulnerable livestock about then I think surrendering her to dogs trust would be for the best.

[ExcitedForChristmas18]

Jack Russell's are extremely intelligent dogs and can be easily trained! I have two Jack Russell's and a Bassett Hound. I have worked with a behavioural specialist since finding out I was pregnant with my first, as I had the Jack Russell's before DH. I had spoilt them rotten and they grew up to be divas and completely ruled me. All my own fault!!

You will be able to sort all this out! A lot of farmers own Jack Russell's as they make such good farm dogs. Keeping the rats away etc..she is still so young, her bad habits can be broken.
You would of had to put time, patience and effort into any dog you got. So this should be no different.

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

18 months ago I acquired a JRT x who was just over a year old and totally untrained apart from being house broken, and I became his fourth owner. He came from a friend rather than a rescue, and similar to you I didn't know everything upfront. He's now a cracking dog - off lead reliably, good with other dogs in the park, a reformed bin raider and he's even learned not to chase the hamster (though he'll still chase squirrels).

Back to basics training is where you need to start - pretend he's a puppy. They do learn very quickly if you use treats (clicker training is fab for helping them learn quickly as it pinpoints the correct behaviour).

It is achievable. I haven't had to train livestock chasing out of a dog (we live in an urban area) but the success with hamster chasing suggests that some improvement will be possible. I literally spent 6 months giving him a two minute time out in the hallway whenever he chased before he got the right idea; it's been months since we had an incident and he can now be in the same room as the cage unsupervised.

Fencing is, however your friend. Whether that means fencing off an area that your dog can be in or reinforcing fencing to keep the dog out of livestock areas that's the only way you can be certain that the dog will not cause any harm (even a muzzled dog chasing sheep can cause them so much stress they abort lambs).

@Shooting Thankfully electric shock collars (along with their cousin, the spray collar) will very shortly be illegal under animal welfare legislation. They can appear to work, but they can cause a whole host of other issues, such as anxiety which in turn manifests as aggression (and that's far harder to resolve than what you started with).

[DogMamma]

Oh your poor son I bet he was distraught!

You can teach and train an older dog. Our late girl was a nightmare when we got her, no idea how old she was, she was aggressive and uncontrollable she had a bad start to life, she had seriously hurt a pit bull cross, killed a few cats and would run for most dogs smaller than her no actually all dogs, for no reason, had no recall whatsoever, not housetrained, no lead training, we took her in on a trail basis as we desperately wanted a dog and thought adopting a dog who desperately needed a home would be better, (ok so I may have took her off someone who beat her and tied her up outside he was about to let her go stray)

she was known in town as a nasty dangerous dog, however always known to be great with kids and people despite the treatment she received from previous owners, 13 we know of. ....with much perseverance and hard hard work within 6 months she was the most model dog walked to heal played amazingly with all dogs even little westies which had a particular dislike to before hand, she wouldn't go more than 10 feet or so ahead of you if off in a field, she would groom my mum's cats and once was even playing woth next doors rabbit when it dug up the lawn and came under the fence.

With correct training and hard work I'm sure your dog can be turned around mine was they don't get much worse than her (only ones that attack humans obviously)

[Biddie191]

Thank you all so much for your help and advice - it seems that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I think yesterday I was just in despair mode - having thought we were making progress, we seemed to go backwards a massive amount. Where for a bit last week her recall (in the house) seemed to be improving, and I could hold her attention, it seems like she's a bit bored of me at the mo.
Deep breath, and try again!
It seems the Christmas break will be spent reinforcing the chicken run, and securely fencing a part of the paddock to practice off the lead in a distracting environment, before I even consider letting her off elsewhere, muzzled or not!
The biggest issue is neighbour's stock, as they are more accessible than our own.
Cheers guys!