Any one elses dog have a permanent halti?

[Nutellaoffaspoon]

Hi,

I know these are supposed to be used as a temporary measure, as a training method, but what if they just never stop pulling on a normal lead or harness?

I have a 2 year old lab X cocker spaniel and boy, is she strong!! Taking her for a walk is more of a chore than a pleasure, as she pulls CONSTANTLY. She stops slightly when she's absolutely knackered, but it takes a lot for that to happen.

We tried a harness initially, which didn't work, so resorted to a halti. Whereas it was soooo much easier, I didn't like using it, because it would sometimes pull on her eye. Went back to a harness, but was pulling just the same. I've tried everything. Stopping when she pulls, carrying on when she stops etc, but no improvement. She's pure muscle and excitement!

I've now gone back to as halti and had one properly fitted, which seems to be more comfortable for her. The man in pets at home assured me that they're not cruel and sometimes, they're a permanent solution.

What are your thoughts?

TIA

[dudsville]

I want my dogs to walk in front of me, untraditional, I know. Because of this, for me, cracking the pulling is always an issue with a new dog. I use a harness with a back clip but engage in lots of positive reinforcement and route changes where I give then directions so they do learn to pace and check in but some dogs take ages. I'm always reminded of Hellen Keller at the well final grasping the sign for "water". Keep at it op! You will be so proud of yourself and your dog when he cracks it.

[Wolfiefan]

Not my experience. It doesn’t close so much to affect breathing or panting or close her mouth. Maybe that’s the shape of my dog’s face? It tightens but not anywhere near that much. Or I wouidnt use it.

[Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten]

Wolfie if the lead tightens it will close the mouth that is how it is designed to stop the pulling . On most dogs you can hear a change in their breathing when the headcollar closes the mouth

[Whatsforu]

I run with my dog. He wears a halti and harness. He is brilliant trotting by my side until something catches his eye!!!! The halti keeps me and him safe. He is 38kg and very powerful.

[Wolfiefan]

I’ve read the blurb on the website. It says it “can” be used to close the dog’s mouth “in an emergency”. It is not designed to do it in normal usage.

[Wolfiefan]

Mine doesn’t run with it on. And it doesn’t close her mouth. I didn’t read the spec as I consulted directly with the company about finding the right size. I suppose if your dog was a total tank who refused to do anything but tow you at top speed then it might have that effect. But used properly it really shouldn’t.

[Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten]

Wolfie read the spec from dogmatic - that is what it is designed to do close the dogs mouth. Dogs should never run free with a head collar on for safety.

[tabulahrasa]

“Although there is a link between her harness and collar do you think that's okay?”

No worries, it’s where the force from hitting the end of the lead hits that matters - the harness will spread that out over the chest anyway.

[Wolfiefan]

A properly fitted dogmatic should not restrict the dog’s ability to pant or close its mouth. It’s imprtant to get one that’s big enough around the muzzle. My dog could happily play ball wearing it. (She doesn’t as I take it off whilst she runs.)
We continue with training (and most of the time she doesn’t pull) but for those few and far between moments when she does it’s invaluable.

[Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten]

Villainousbroodmare I know why gundog people think they need to use a slip lead but it does not justify the need for a slip lead.
Just unclip the collar - easy.

No dog will learn to pull on a harness - especially used with a front clip but an existing dog with the habit of pulling will pull unless trained not to

[villainousbroodmare]

Valhalla, it's not that the harness encourages pulling as such, but that it makes it reasonably comfortable to pull strongly.
Gun dog people use slip and figure of eight leads because working gun dogs cannot wear a collar or harness in case they get stuck in something. Definitely not v comfortable if the dog is pulling but perhaps that's the point.

[Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten]

Oh and harnesses do not encouraging pulling a sled dog or canicross harness are a completely different design to a "normal" harness and will allow pulling but a general harness with a d ring on chest and the back will not encourage pulling.

A pulling dog will pull on anything I am afraid that training is the safest way.

[Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten]

Just for the record the Dogmatic head collar does tighten on the dogs mouth and closes the dogs mouth if the dog pulls or pressure is put on the lead. The fit of dogmatic does mean that the dogs mouth is slightly restricted so do be careful that the dog can pant efficiently in hot weather.

Finger of eights are like slip leads so are quite unpleasant for the dog . They restrict oxygen to the dog when the dog pulls by tightening around the neck and the mouth - horrrible things - I don't know why the gundog people use them.

[TomHardysNextWife]

I've got a working cocker that is 20kg of solid muscle and he pulls like a train. He's just far too excited to get off the lead. I've tried every book under the sun, but tbh he only has such a short time on the lead that I use a figure of 8 on him to get to the footpath. Most other spaniel owners around here do exactly the same so I don't feel too much of a failure .

[sickmumma]

@tabulahrasa sorry think your quoting my post! I wasn't meant to put collar I clip the extending lead to her harness! Not sure how to edit the post! Although there is a link between her harness and collar do you think that's okay? It's incase she slips out of the harness (not that I think this would happen) it's a K9 one we use!

[tabulahrasa]

“I have found a combo of extending lead and collar”

That combination is dangerous to dogs and isn’t recommended by the manufacturers of extendable leads.

If a dog hits the end of one on a collar it can cause serious neck injuries.

They’re only recommended with rear clipping harnesses.

[Kidsnowteenagers123]

You've lucky got a mix of 2 dogs who should both be food orientated - a lab and spaniel. You need to train the dog to walk beside you. To start, the halti must be a front fitting one with a martingale attachment at the chest and that is where you attach the lead. Have loads of treats in your pocket/hand and every day do a short lead walk down your road. To start, its treat treat treat treat every time the dog is walking by you, and focusing on you. When the dog then pulls on the lead, stop, wait for him to come back to you, treat and walk again treating constantly for being beside you. As he gets better (it could take weeks but be patient, reduce the treats so perhaps one every 2 metres, but keep treating. Remember to take all these treats out of his daily food allowance though and start with very 'high value' treats to make him realise it's worth staying beside you. I personally don't expect my dogs to walk to heel, just not to pull on their leads. It will take patience and perseverance so do t expect a quick fix but it will work in the end and for all the years you have ahead together, will be so worth it.

[missbattenburg]

OP, I just wanted to call out what someone touched on but you may have missed in among the posts.

There can be real merit in having 2 different sets of walking gear.

For example:

A harness and lead for use on all 'normal walks' where you want to exercise or socialise the dog and so training is likely to get in the way or be inconsistent a bit. The harness means the dog can pull but is unlikely to hurt itself doing so. This would be your default set at first.

A flat collar and lead that is only used for training sessions. This allows you to spend time really training the loose lead without worrying about also getting a walk done. For example, you could start by just asking for the dog's attention with this kit on, stood by the front door as if to leave. Practise until she shows no signs of excitement. Then up the ante a bit by slightly opening the door. Keep getting closer and closer to a full walk but never progressing beyond the point at which you can keep the dog's attention on you (it's a pretty amazing dog that can be focussed on you AND pulling like mad).

The dog will soon learn the difference of harness = mad walk, collar = focus on you. Over time you increase the use of the collar as you are able to et further and further our the door while maintaining focus and decrease the harness until all walks are on collar.

[sickmumma]

We have a husky! I envy those that have managed to train there's to heel! We have had one on ones with a dog trainer and even she was a bit flummoxed at what to try next, she isn't great motivated at all and everything seemed to distract her! (Apart from walking she is perfect in every other way and I guess you can't have it all!)

I try not to use the halti as much as I can, however now I am pregnant think I may need to a bit more as she is so strong, a harness just gives her even more power, if walked on a collar she will literally take about 5 steps and make herself sick she pulls so badly! I have found a combo of extending lead and collar can work well when not somewhere as open such as the woods etc as she is more distracted and not trying to get somewhere as such.

We also have a walking belt with a bungee lead which is fab and I would recommend that as it tires her out much quicker as she is pulling but my weight and the bungee lead takes away the jerks from the lead. Obv I can't use this now I am pregnant but it's a much pleasurable walk for us both with this!

[Greyhorses]

I use a dogmatic all of the time. Walking 3 german shepherds weighing 30kg each when I am only 45kg myself wouldn’t be safe on flat collars.

They rarely pull but when they do they are bloody strong!

[bigsighall]

Not against them. One dog always walked perfectly with one but was stressed and pully on a normal lead and would try and walk in front. Other dog has never had one on. My dogs are not allowed to walk in front of me tho, behind or next to me is fine and I think that helps.

[SureIusedtobetaller]

He doesn’t pull any more on any lead but we still use a halti chest harness- he’s very dog reactive and it just gives me confidence that I can stop him. Then he’s more confident because I am.

[totallyliterally]

We use a figure of 8 lead for our gun dog. As do many other gundog owners I know.

[tabulahrasa]

“Some dogs get an endorphin rush from pulling that no reward can beat - not even cheese, chicken or ham.”

The issue with pulling is that it’s self rewarding, dog wants over yonder, it pulls, it gets over yonder (might just be in general or at a specific thing or place or to the part of the walk they enjoy more)

For some dogs food might not be a high value enough reward to make them use their impulse control, but something will be and it’ll work better if you work on impulse control in general.

[MrsRubyMonday]

We used dogmatics permanently for the first few years until they no longer needed them, coupled with weekly obedience training. Out trainer supported their use and helped us fit them. They are headcollars like the halti, but they are structured like a horse bridle with a fixed loop that goes around the neck, one over the muzzle and 'bars' between them. This stops the loops tightening or pulling up into the eyes. All the headcollar does is move the point of contact from the collar on their shoulders to under the chin. This stops them being able to put their full weight behind the collar. Harnesses are even worse for this, and it's often strong dogs people put in them. If the dog tries to pull in a dogmatic, they can only use the strength of their neck which is much easier to control and therefore safer.