Getting a puppy and want to do everything right - please may you advise me?

[NomDeOrdinateur]

Hi all, my brother (age 20) is finally getting a puppy after about 15 years of pestering my folks for one, and I'd be really grateful if you could please advise me on the essentials.

He's done a lot of research and decided to buy a Newfoundland puppy from a reputable breeder, because he has read that they are typically very docile and should only get a small amount of exercise each day (he thinks

[Shesparkles]

We got a pup a few months ago, and as adorable as he is, it's like having another toddler around the house! The only experienced I really have of dogs is with this one so I'm no expert but I think that like children, you get out what you put in.

[Marne]

oh and i stupidly bought a pup when i was 20 years old, i was working full time and sharing a house with 3 lads, they agreed to help (how stupid was i to think they would), i took the pup everywhere with me and had someone to look after it for an hour during the day (to walk him), he destroyed the kitchen, house training took a long time (as i was not there enough), he was a lovely dog but i was totaly selfish getting him, when he was 8 months old i had to move house and could not take him with me so i rehomed him to a friend, he was house trained within a week as they were home all day to spend time with him. I didnt get another dog until i gave up work to have children, i now have 2 and they take up a lot of time.

[happygardening]

If your brother is completely honest with the breeder about his situation (working full time going to gym etc) the fact that the responsibility in the day time will fall on you or your parents they will hopefully tell him that he would not be suitable. If they don't I would question how reputable the breeder is. Do look at the Newfoundland Club website tells you about health problems costs of medicines/wormers etc,

[NomDeOrdinateur]

Also, the puppy advice is so helpful - thank you for the reality check Blinkedandmissedit. Even if mum and I did all of the day-time tasks, I can't imagine my brother managing to balance the night duties with his job!

[NomDeOrdinateur]

Thanks so much for your advice, Marne and Blinkedandmissedit - it sounds to me like a greyhound might be the way to go. I'm sure he won't like the idea though, and mum isn't keen AT ALL because she doesn't think they look nice (goodness knows why, but hopefully she might be swayed by a little Italian Grayhound as they're so sweet).

I've passed everybody's comments over to my parents, who are going to discuss it with him tonight. I told my brother today that I'm not going to help him (I'd tentatively agreed to visit a local breeder and find out more about Newfies) unless we come to a better compromise, and he was very intractable and quite aggressive/defensive about the whole thing. I've suggested some alternative breeds, but I really think I may have to choose between either: living at my parents' home (to spend some time with my family and save for a deposit) with a ridiculously large, messy and intimidatingly boisterous young dog; or, ruining my relationship with my brother by trying to stop this and either succeeding or having to move out because of the dog anyway.

Oh dear...

[blinkedandmissedit]

We got a rescue puppy at new year. We got her at 10 weeks and by 12 weeks she was housetrained. BUT, a large part of this was because I am here all day and my children are at school, so I was able towatch her like a hawk. She also goes in a crate at night or if I have to pop out. If she was left for a long time in the house alone, I doubt very much she would be able to hold it. So that restricts you and your mum going out for the day as puppies really cannot be left for long.

The training is definitely an ongoing thing. They need puppy classes and several bursts of training every day. My DH works full time and is able to do a little with her, but only in terms of practising what I have taught her. I cannot see how someone working full time, then going to th gym regularly will have the time to properly train a puppy.

A lot of the training takes place outside of the house. So going to new places, coping with traffic noise, meeting dogs and people. There is no way I could have done this with our puppy after work as she is asleep for a lot of the evening, especially when we first got her.

The dog would need to be trained to walk properly on the lead. Again, this needs reinforcing every day. That would not come down to your brother if he is not home, it would be you and your mum.

Puppies have to be watched constantly. They eat anything (including their own poo) and really need saving from themselves nost of the time.

I have also not had a full night's sleep at all in 2013, as my puppy cannot yet go all night without the toilet and barks (well yaps!) to go out.

I am shattered, but because I have the time to put the work in, we can see it all paying off already. If I was at work all day, I would still eb shattered from the lack of sleep, but also I would have an untrained dog.

I also thought greyhound. The ones we see on our walks are going so slow they are almost going backwards!

[Marne]

I have a 5 year old Staffie, she's deffently not layed back but is happy to sleep for a big part of the day (when awake she can be hyper), she doesnt need as much exersize as my lab but she likes a lot of company so would be very upset about being left every day if i was to go to work. Maybe he should consider another type of pet until he is able to give enough of his time to a dog?

Newfoundlands are huge and need a lot of exersize and time (grooming, training, walking etc..). He maybe able to get an older rescue dog but not many rescues would home a dog with someones who works all day (for obvious reasons).

[happygardening]

OP These are extracts from the Newfoundland Club UK leaflet "so you want a Newfoundland?"
"Big, hairy, clumsy, enthusiastic, hungry, usually slobbery, frequently wet, often muddy, sometimes naughty, invariably in your way, generally ?deaf? to your commands and always demanding of your time and affection. BUT they are a joy to the lives of those people daft enough to be devoted to them.
If you are houseproud, lead a busy life or are out at work full-time, this is NOT the breed for you. They need love, attention, good food, regular grooming, more love, basic obedience training, space to run and a loving ?family?. This is not a breed to live in a kennel or be left alone, either shut outside or in another room. They demand the company of humans and are happiest living as one of the family ? but with all the doors wide open please....
Newfoundlands The beautiful, cuddly, fluffy bundle of love you see at the breeder?s home will become 80+ pounds (35Kg+) of energy within a few months. That lovely coat sheds hair everywhere, no outfit in your wardrobe will be without its sprinkling, you will leave hairs wherever you go, and every pot of yoghurt will contain at least one! A Newfoundland could still be acting like a puppy when he is two years old, weighs at least 7 stones (45Kg) and is 25+ inches (60cm) at the shoulder. Gentle and loving he may be, but the frail, elderly and very young may be knocked aside in his joyful rush to greet them. This is why basic obedience training is so important and must be started as soon as possible."
I dont know how to link it in on here but if you search Newfoundland club UK there's lots of info on their website. Hopefully no reputable breeder would sell him one!

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

Though Staffies are possibly slightly different as seem more laid back.

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

I don't know anything about Newfies OP but I would advise against a Terrier as you suggested. They may be small but are very busy and need stimulation and exercise. Mine is still only young and can sometimes climb the walls on 3 times the exercise your brother is proposing and they can be very wilful to train. Mine is good with other animals but many owners in here have a differnt tale to tell.

Don't confuse small with easy

[NomDeOrdinateur]

PS - before somebody jumps on me, I put the word "chavvy" in scare-quotes because it's literally (and unfairly) synonymous with the word "staffy" where we live, NOT because I think this or condone anybody else thinking/saying it. I just used it to explain why he 100% wouldn't consider a staffy, so I hope nobody will take offense or perceive me as prejudiced - if so, my apologies.

[NomDeOrdinateur]

Thanks LadyTurmoil, I will show him the thread. I don't think he'd go for a staffie (mostly because they have a "chavvy" reputation round these parts) but I'm hoping that he might consider a grayhound...

I've read some really promising things about Italian Grayhounds, Spitzs (all breeds), Queen Elizabeth Beagles - could anybody give me an idea of whether one of those would be suitable, please?

I think he'd find a Spitz more appealing than any of the alternatives (he likes fluffy-but-not-"girly" dogs), and they seem a bit better suited to the life we can guarantee them.

I'm sorry to bombard you with questions - I'm just desperate to find an acceptable compromise, and I know from past experience that The Doghouse is the best reality check going :). Thanks again for all of the advice so far!

[LadyTurmoil]

If he insists on a dog, why doesn't he consider an older Staffie? NOT a puppy as they are very bouncy and energetic, but one about 4 years old which needs a new loving home? There are so many in rescues and not all are "mad, bad and dangerous to know" as the papers make out.

Surely that would satisfy his childish (sorry but it is, on so many levels) attitude regarding a "macho" dog but would be so much easier than a Newfoundland.

[LadyTurmoil]

Please show him the thread, nobody is down on him for wanting a dog, everyone here realises the yearning for a dog that rapidly becomes an obsession!

But he just has to be fair to all the people living in the house. How would he feel about his mum being knocked over and injured by a big, slobbery dog? If part of owning this breed is about the size/status, he should realise that the size of his penis is not related to the size of dog he owns. An example, my brother is over 6 foot tall, muscly, not a wimp in the slightest ... What dog does he have? A little, white, fluffy Bichon poodle which he got for his daughter but he's the one who walks the dog every day and does not feel the slightest threat to his manhood! He even met his lovely girlfriend when out walking the dog!

Your brother needs to grow up and stop being mummy's boy who always gets his own way and damn the consequences. Again, good luck.

[NomDeOrdinateur]

Tabulahrasa and Codswallopandchips - thank you so much, I will speak to my folks (and then my brother) about this tomorrow! I think it would be a much better idea - the more I hear about Newfoundlands (esp HappyGardening's description), the more I think it would be a totally inappropriate choice for my parents' house (which they have just spent thousands of pounds refurbishing, after 20 years of general scruffiness due to lots of children running about).

Happygardening - I'm glad to have confirmation of their strength, my bro is into bodybuilding so I think he sees a strong and heavy dog as a status symbol but I don't think it makes any sense for the rest of us. Mum recently had both knees replaced and is tiny (like me), so I'd hate to think of how much pain she could be in after being knocked over. Also, poor parrot might not be safe even in her cage if the dog is likely to knock things over!

I am soooo linking him to this thread tomorrow.

[codswallopandchips]

Yup, they're pretty placid and typically live to around 12 years (they retire at age 3!!) Check out the retired greyhound trust for more info.

Oh, another benefit of a slightly older dog is that their personality will be quite evident - puppies are more of an unknown quantity regardless of the breed.

[happygardening]

I know a little about Newfoundlands they are beautiful but quite boisterous when young and will easily pull a 20 stone man over and knock any adult flying. Theyve got feet like plates and do jump up if not properly trained. Most slobber and can send it 20 foot across a room a bandana is not going to stop it. They love water but then youve got an enourmous dog with an exceedingly thick coat that's soaking wet and takes hours to dry.
These are not for the house proud the two or three we've known have been confined to a conservatory or similar because they accidentally cause havoc knocking things over; just their tails are enormous and make a terrible mess.

[tabulahrasa]

You get a lot of young ex-racing greyhounds who are retired just because theyre not very good at it, so yes they're young healthy dogs - and as a rule greyhounds are massively placid.

[NomDeOrdinateur]

Thank you, codswallopandchips - I will suggest that :). Are former racing grayhounds likely to be placid/non-aggressive and live a reasonably long time before health problems emerge?

[tabulahrasa]

It took 8 weeks before my puppy mostly had the hang of it with just a few accidents and 10 weeks to completely reliably housetrain my puppy.

Training in the more general sense is massively important with such a large breed, it takes up loads of time because you can't just let it coast because of the speed they grow at... I've got a rottie, much much smaller than a Newfoundland and he's been big enough to knock over a toddler since he was about 16 weeks old, he's now head height with a 9 year old at 7 months. (jumping up at them I mean)

They are fairly lazy, but they still need a decent amount of exercise - and has he factored in how much grooming they need and that large and giant breed dogs are puppies and behave like puppies for the first 3 years or so?

[codswallopandchips]

If he wants a sedentary dog, why not look into rehoming a former racing grayhound? They're quite lazy and will be housetrained - and less used to being petted/centre of attention. Also less hairy!

I'd be pretty nervous of a newfie - they're blinking massive!

[NomDeOrdinateur]

LadyTurmoil - he's adamant that this is the "best" idea, because they're supposedly quite sedentary and timid when fully grown (and, IMO, because the breed looks impressive). I've tried to persuade him that a terrier would be a better idea but neither he nor my father are keen - I think it's a slightly macho prejudice against small dogs TBH. Apparently he will groom the dog fully twice per week, and mum will hoover several times per day (I know, it's crazy). He thinks a bandanna will take care of the drool, I think it will go everywhere. Also, am I right in thinking that its thick coat will soak up water every time it bends down to drink, and then leave puddles all over the floor?

Thanks for the good wishes - I feel really stuck here! I'm currently living elsewhere (until April) and my parents both agreed without my knowledge that THEY would accept the dog as long as I did, so I have to choose between seriously damaging my relationship with my brother by being "The One Who Got In The Way Of The Thing He Always Wanted" in the hope that it might be enough to stop this (which I know it wouldn't be, as mum always helps him to get his way if at all possible and my parents never seem to respect/care what I think unless it supports their views), OR I do what I can to help him see sense with this thread and then pick up the pieces afterwards. He is literally obsessed with getting a dog, not a week has gone by in the past 15 years without him raising the subject with my parents (and I genuinely doubt my mum has gone 48 hours without hearing the word "dog" since he started primary school). Between his doggedness (no pun intended) and my mum's indulgent streak, I just know I won't be able to stop this - especially since I have 2 pets and a husband, whereas he feels that he's missing out on the things I have .

Gosh, that was a rant - thanks for reading, if you made it to the end!

[LadyTurmoil]

If he really won't move about getting a dog, would he at least think about a different breed? This breed grows up to be so huge, almost like Shetland ponies, is it fair of him to ask you/your mum/your dad to be responsible AND are you/they even physically able to control this size of dog and cope with all its needs? It's hard enough to stop an enthusiastic, bouncy Lab or retriever type of dog from running away with you, let alone a 50-65kg dog, does he realise that's about the same weight as a fully grown adult (between 9-10 stone!!). Yes, he might have read that they are fairly inactive etc but I'm sure that doesn't apply to a young puppy/dog. Has he explained the drool and the shedding? What would your parents think about that? And, lastly your mother should stop feeling guilty, she and your dad really need to put their foot down, it could cause real difficulties in THEIR relationship if they're not in agreement about it from the outset. Awful situation for you...good luck with it.

[NomDeOrdinateur]

Thank you Jayne for your advice - I'll add those costs and checks to his (quickly growing) list of things to consider! Would the insurance be likely to double in monthly cost over the dog's lifespan? And is there any benefit to single year cover rather than lifetime? (I'm guessing no, he definitely wants to insure the dog for its entire lifespan.)

[NomDeOrdinateur]

Redwing - he's not planning on looking for another 6 months or so, but he will definitely buy from a reputable breeder. Thank you for the training book reccs, I'll pass them on - he already has a couple of books from colleagues (who also work full time and have dogs, which I think is part of his logic).

How long (roughly) do you expect that it would take to housetrain a puppy? He has 3wks a/l to take, plus the weekends on either side.

Good point about training being ongoing - I'll highlight that to him (yet again).