This cant be right?

[Emmielu]

Our 16 month old newf boy came back from the vets today after a castration. He also had a hip xray because every now & again he limps on his back left foot & cant put weight on it. We thought this was due to a slip he had when he was 10 months old chasing a spaniel. Turns out BOTH his hips need replacing & its not because of the slip he had its because its genetic. Not only does this mean his brothers & sisters may have it, it also means if they dont get replaced, he'll have to be put down in 2 years time. As if thats not bad enough, £4000 per hip it'll cost to replace. £8000. Where on earth can we find that amount of money in 2 years?? This cant be right surely? Should we get a 2nd opinion?

Sounds about right. Hip problems in large breed dogs are common and why proper breeding and health testing and insurance is imperative. You can gte a second opinion if you like, but the results are likely to be the same.

I'm guessing you don't have insurance?

Your options are credit or if you recieve any benefits the Blue Cross might help.

One thing I will advise is that pricing can vary dramatically from vet to vet so ringing around for prices could end up saving you a few hundred quid.

My vet friend says this is common in the breed.
Personally I'd get a 2nd opinion though, for peace of mind if nothing else as that is a lot of money.

What a shock - please tell me you are insured & covered for this? Awful as it sounds if that happened to us the dog would have to be pts as there is just no way I could raise £8000. You must be feeling devastated.

I'd also be straight on the phone to the breeder to find out the fate of the other pups in the litter and to ensure the dam/sire were removed from the breeding programme to prevent other animals facing such a ghastly prognosis.

Personally I'd want a 2nd vetinary opinion too asap, no dog should be facing a lifespan of just 3 -4 years on health grounds. It's just awful.

Might be worth the second opinion, as it's such a lot of money. Is he not insured?

Have you spoken to the breeder? If it's a genetic thing, they need to know.

Must be a huge shock for you, sorry.

My sisters vet told her her dog (large breed) had hip problems and they both needed to be replaced quoting the same as your vet has.

My sister went to a specialist for a 2nd opinion and it turns out there is absolutely nothing wrong with her hips.

If your not sure, get a 2nd opinion but I would be prepared to accept this may have to happen.

Do you not have insurance to cover this?

Sounds about right. Hip dysplasia is common in many breeds but especially large/giant breeds and has a strong genetic component.

However, I would want to secure a second opinion before I went ahead with surgery - have the x-rays been sent off to be scored? The fact that he is already displaying unsoundness would confirm for me though that there is an issue of some kind. Pain and lack of mobility is likely to worsen with age especially in a large, heavy dog.

You must contact the breeder and let them know. Were his parents hip scored? This is why we all bang on about health tests on here (despite being called killjoys and worse by people who want to breed/buy a random puppy), the resuls of careless breeding can be so devastating. :(

We're insured but it wont cover both the hips. :(

When we brought him, he came from a long line of newfs that had been bred before. The breeder had a massive recommendation, we saw the mum & dad, their hip scores too & we have all the family info from the dogs. It just baffles me how this can suddenly appear??

Will your insurer cover a specialist 2nd opinion? Would be worth asking them methinks. Also the breed club might have a list of specialists to hand if this is a problem common to the breed.

Our current insurance only covers up to £3k of treatment + excess, like most things my premiums are tightly budgeted for, esp while the our dog is young and seemingly healthy.

No way would I part with the kind of money quoted and put a dog through the stress of really major surgery, which in itself is never without risk without a 2nd opinion. More so given the similar experience described by toboldlygo.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

Were their hip scores low (or at least well within expected limits for the breed)? What about grandparents and great grandparents? Elbow scores? Could the breeder show evidence that their dogs remained sound into old age (only 8-10 I think for a newfie).

Environmental factors can also have an effect, large dogs are more at risk generally because of their own weight and bulk, so are smaller dogs who are overweight. There's evidence that excessive exercise and especially of the wrong type (jumping, twisting, high impact on hard surfaces etc) at a young age can exacerbate the problem as well.

It's horrible but as a large dog of this breed he was always more likely to suffer from HD, the only thing you can do is scrutinise the breeder to minimise the risk and sadly deal with the fallout if it happens.

As he's been limping on one side only to date did that hip appear worse on x-ray? It may be the case that they can operate on that hip first and keep him sound for a year or two to allow you to save up for when the other hip needs doing in the future.

I have Newfs too (well, just the one at present) and hip dysplasia (HD) is inherent in the breed, as it is with most large/giant breeds. My current one is 7 and shows some signs of mild-moderate HD, particularly in her right hip but not bad enough to require surgery. We're managing it with low doses of anti-inflammatory meds, hydrotherapy and acupuncture.

How old is your boy? I would certainly seek a second opinion from an orthopaedic specialist - your insurance should cover the referral but, to be honest, I know of quite a few Newfs who have required double hip replacements because the HD is so bad that they basically have no hip socket. The constant friction of the bones against each other (due to lack of socket) causes severe arthristis to set in and that can be crippling...hence why they are suggesting that he may need PTS in a few years. Are you sure your insurance won't cover both ops if necessary? One of my dogs (not a Newf) has had 2 cruciate repair surgeries, both of which were fully covered by his insurance.

What were the hip scores or the parents, as a matter if interest? Were their elbows and hearts scored as well? Breeders should only breed from dogs with as low scores as possible but even then, severe HD can still crop up in a litter from relatively low scoring parents. Plus there are environmental factors at play too in terms of damage that has been acquired since birth that might exacerbate the existing HD (e.g. through injury or over exercise). Do you know if any of your dog's siblings have been scored?

Hes 16 months old. Orthopaedics so far have said £5000 per hip but my dad is doing a serious amount of searching & even going to the insurance company & searching for other insurance companies to go with instead. But with an added £75 cancelling fee on the one we're on right now, its looking difficult. The insurance wont cover the cost at all. The hip scores for parents & brothers & sisters of our newf were good. But as we've been told it doesnt have to come straight from parents to have this problem happen, like humans genes can skip generations. All the dogs are scored before they leave for new homes. My dad hated ringing the breeder just now to let them know. He felt like the call wasnt being made to make the others aware but instead to have a go at them. He kept saying "im not blaming this on you & im not angry at you" but the breeders needed to because they kept one of the litter. As do the other brothers & sisters. Hes a very bouncy newf. He jumps up at gates & does a lot of running when it comes to football but we do keep it minimal because he gets a bit too excited & it gets out of hand but as you said, it could have been made worse by the jumping.

You won't find an insurance company that will cover the surgeries now, unfortunately. Once a problem is diagnosed, it's classified as a pre-existing condition which will be exempt from any new policy.

I think you are mistaken about 'all dogs being scored before they leave for new homes' - dogs cannot be hip scored until after 12 months of age so this is not something that would be done to pups that are just leaving to go off to their new families.

Rubber - now im worried. We've had newf since he was 10 weeks old. We were told hes been hip scored before they leave. :S uh oh.

Then you've been misled, I'm afraid. Which would make me question how honest the breeders have been about the hip scores of their other dogs.

Do you have the names of the parents of your boy? PM me if you do.

I only have the name (pet name not kennel club name) of the mother of the boy. Is there any possible way we could find some treatment for him for the time being until we get the money together?

I am so sorry to hear this and that this is happening to you. Some insurance policies don't cover hip problems as they consider them cogenital, but the only insurance companies I have heard of doing this have a less than good reputation. E &L is one.

If you have your dogs KC registration, the names of his parents' will be on there.

We had a GSD with both hips bad - we'd been told about the parents being hip scored as well etc etc.

Our vet said he was one of the worst cases he'd seen, but he was still active and it only seemed to worry him after long walks or massive games. We managed it with Glucosamine & Chondritin, plus anti-inflammatories etc. I know others on this site can recommend other, natural, remedies as well, to keep the pain manageable for him.

Good luck. I would definately go with a second opinion. Love Newfs, hope you can get some good news on this.

Just to say, parent's, grandparents etc hips being scored and being below the breed average means the chances of your puppy having it are reduced. However, it doesn't mean they won't have it. At the moment it is also unclear as to how much is contributable to genetics and how much early management, so for example, it's advised not to let young puppies go up and down stairs, or walk puppies too much, especially giant breeds.

Do you know the breeders name, EmmieLu? If it turns out that the hip scores you were not as you were lead to believe, there may be opportunity for legal redress. If you can give me the breeders info privately, I can do a bit of digging.

There may be therapies that can help in the interim but you would need to speak to a vet. Hydrotherapy, for example, might help to build up the surrounding muscles which can help alleviate the pressure on the joints a bit and might buy some time. Painkillers and/or anti inflammatories will help to keep him comfortable. Keeping his weight down is important too.

However, at 16 months, he is probably not even fully grown. Most Newfs continue to fill out until they are 2 or even older. Mine was very slow to mature in body and she's relatively petite for the breed at around 58kg. The bigger he gets, the more pressure there will be on the joints which can speed up deterioration.

You really need to discuss the short term options and prognosis in detail with the vet, bearing in mind the dog's quality of life if surgery in the short term is not an option. Is there any chance the vet would accept a payment plan to allow you to pay in regular installments?

Sorry to hear about your newf. Particularly that you may have been duped by the breeder.

If you can find his registration documents, you can then put parents names into the kc database online and it will give you all of their health test results plus those of dogs siblings and progeny.

I would go for s second opinion, it may not be ad bad as you think. Our vet took xrays of our older lab and announced he had terrible hd. Sent us to the specialist who said ppft! The xrays are no good, the dog was not lined up properly. They re took the crate, his hips were fine.... But he had ruptured his cruciate ligaments which was causing the on and off lameness.

Where about a are you? I can highly recommend Alex Li of chiltern referral services. Brilliant and a lovely man.

We're looking into 2nd opinions & have found plenty of different things to try before jumping into a hip replacement that we found out doesnt always work. Joint suplements, not walking on concrete, walking on grass or on the beach instead, swimming, hydro pool. All things that yes ok, the hydro pool will cost money & so will the suplements but its things that dont include an operation with a massive amount of money & a dog that needs to recover from it all.

Something's a bit odd here. He can't have been hip scored before he left his breeder; that's not done until they are a year old (minimum). It sounds as though he's not KC reg - did he come with papers?

I think you need to find a highly recommended hip specialist and have his hips re-xrayed and then scored. There is a great deal of skill involved in diagnosed hips and so on and it seems that's what's needed here.

At least then you KNOW what you're dealing with; it seems that so far, it is a little vague.

In the mean time, yes swimming, supplements and so on will possibly help him but they won't cure the problem. I really think you need to ask for a referral to a specialist to pursue it further. To find out if one hip is worse than the other - if they really do need replacing - most normal vets practices don't have this level of expertise.

Please do seek a second opinion as soon as possible. If the hips are as bad as the vet who did the x-ray says, though, joint supplements, hydro, moderating exercise etc will be of limited help as if there is no hip joint at all it's just bone grinding against bone continuously. Arthritis will already be setting in and he will be in pain although dogs can be very good at hiding how much pain they are suffering...one of mine had a damaged cruciate for months which would have been getting progressively more painful before he showed signs of lameness and by the time he did the ligament was on the point of rupture. Although he's fine now, I still feel terrible guilt that he was in pain for all that time without us knowing.

Hip replacement done by an orthopaedic specialist can be very successful. I know several Newfs and other breeds that have been through it and are now living normal, happy lives and young dogs otherwise in good health stand a very good chance of making a good recovery. Yes, surgical recovery can be difficult but a few months of discomfort beats a (massively shortened) life of constant pain and discomfort. And having been through surgery recovery several times now with differetn dogs, they do cope remarkably well.

As everyone else says second opinion. If it turns out replacement hips are needed make lots of phone calls as there is huge variation in the charges the last time I checked you could get two hips done at the University of Bristol for the price of one hip at several other places.
One of the problems with HD is that it is controlled by a large number of different genes so your dog may have had the misfortune to inherit a large number of bad ones where as litter mates may have inherited all good or a mixture of good and bad. I have seen dogs with terrible hips come from parents with excellent hips. Until a genetic test is developed ( years away due to large number of genes involved) we will continue to see this.