Breeder query please

[Puppydilemma]

I have been a regular on mn for 7 years but too much information links together so just name changing for this thread.

As a family we are hoping to get a Briard puppy in a months time. I've spent months and months researching, speaking to breeders, breed clubs etc and narrowed my search down to a breeder who clearly cares very much for her dogs and their welfare.

We were originally looking at February this year but the timing just wasn't right and we decided to wait for the breeder's second bitch to have her litter which was born 4 weeks ago.

We've visited the dogs and met the puppies. They are beautifully kept, well loved and extremely well cared for. Made our short list, offered our deposit so far so good.

Back in February the breeder told me over the phone that I sounded like an ideal owner, at home all day, DH works from home, two children aged 9 and 11 everyone keen. I have land and horses and love being outside.

In the past week she has asked if she could meet my husband and children, fine I said although I have not told the children as want it to be a surprise. I said that she was more than welcome to do a home visit, meet the family and see our house, land etc. Misunderstanding as she wanted us all to go to her. I explained that my husband just cannot take a day out from his work ( they live hours from us) but would be more than happy to talk on the phone. Also explained again that the puppy is a surprise so obviously the children can't meet at her house as bit obvious why we were there - what reason would I be there for?

She is now being very awkward saying that she absolutely has to meet my family and that she doesn't approve of puppies been given as presents. I have been in contact with her for 6 months and she knows without a shadow of a doubt that I will be the main career. I am not handing the puppy over to two children for sole responsibility for the next 15 years!

I feel extremely upset at her attitude towards me as she was so positive up until this point saying what a wonderful owner she thought I would make. I totally understand that as a responsible breeder she wants the best possible homes for her puppies but I am wondering if this is going to be a deal breaker? I'm really not trying to be difficult but wondering how to compromise on this to keep everyone happy.

Is it normal to insist on meeting the whole family? She has had someone from Europe come to visit the puppies, I wonder if she insisted on them bringing their entire family over with them??

I have invested so much time and energy into trying to do this all by the book, being as responsible as I can. I just so want it to be surprise for my children, I worry that if I do decide to take them up there and then she turns us down anyway for some reason they will be devastated - I would prefer them never to know that there was a chance ifswim.

Sorry this is so long, I just feel so passionate that we could give one of these pups a great home but if I don't comply with her absolute wishes we could lose the opportunity. I'm scared that she holds all the cards and that she could just move the goalposts again.

Would appreciate any views as to what is 'normal' in these situations?

[MagratGarlik]

As I understand it (I've only had rescues, but my mum has had a dog from a breeder in the past), it is normal for breeders to want to meet the whole family - as it is also normal for rescues to insist on this. I think they want to see not just what your family are like on paper, but what are the dynamics of the family, which will make a difference to the type of home you provide for the puppy. They also want to see that all members of the family are signed up to the idea of having a dog.

I think your dh being too busy to go and visit her is a non-arguement really. In her view, if he is too busy to even take the time out of work to visit a new family member, what will happen to the dog if (god forbid) something happens to you? Will your dh be too busy to look after the dog properly, at which point, it will end up in rescue?

Also, whilst you may want to surprise your dc's with the dog, what happens if they hate it? They need to know what having a dog in the house will entail and be prepared for that before the dog comes home. It will after all be disruptive for everyone in the family, even if you are the main carer. Are you absolutely convinced that your dc will be happy with "no, we can't go there because the dog can't come", or "no we can't go there because the dog will be left on his own for too long", or "no I don't care that it is raining because yes, we do still have to walk the dog", or "sorry the dog has chewed up your favourite dvd, game, mobile phone, shoes (delete as appropriate)" etc. If not every member of the family is signed up to this level of disruption, life can become quite miserable for everyone and the dog can quite quickly find itself looking for a new home.

Sorry, but I don't think your breeder is trying to be difficult, I think she is just being responsible and you may need to consider whether it is more important to you to get a dog from a good breeder with all the checks done as she requires, or whether a short term inconvenience of taking the family to meet the pups in their own environment is the most important thing to you.

[Puppydilemma]

Thank you for replying and I totally take on board what you are saying. I guess I just wish she had told me earlier so that I could have arranged for my DH to take time off to go all the way over there.

We have discussed it with the children in principle many times, I just wanted the actual event to be a surprise if that makes sense. We've discussed exercise, going out, grooming, playing etc many many times and yes they are all dead keen. Of course you can never tell what the reality will be but we are definitely a totally pro dog house and are surrounded by friends and neighbours with dogs.

I can see that from their point of view we should be going up there as a family, but suppose I had a different version of events playing in my head.

Ok I may well have to think long and hard and forget the surprise element!

Thank you Magrat for your considered opinion it is greatly appreciated.

[batsintheroof]

"I think your dh being too busy to go and visit her is a non-arguement really. In her view, if he is too busy to even take the time out of work to visit a new family member, what will happen to the dog if (god forbid) something happens to you? Will your dh be too busy to look after the dog properly, at which point, it will end up in rescue?"

Does that mean that single people can't have puppies from breeders because if they die there's noone to look after the dog and it will go to rescue? They allow single people to adopt children. Highly irresponsible, that

I think the breeder is a barmy puppy precious crazy lady bit ott to be honest

[happyAvocado]

I can imagine in eyes of the breeder they are handing over a piece of jewellery, charging accordingly ;)

[MagratGarlik]

bats, if the OP were single, I think a breeder would assess her suitability to look after a dog based on her situation/circumstances. As she is not single, it is not unreasonable to assess her family's suitability based on the fact that there are two adults in the house and the breeder would like to meet the whole family. Perhaps the breeder should just hand over a puppy based on meeting just one adult in the household and ask no further questions then? Of course, some will do that because they don't care less about where the pup is going, only about the money they will make from it.

[fuzzysnout]

Puppies are not toys, therefore they do not make good surprises. Apart from anything else, the last thing a new puppy needs is to be taken from it's mum and all it knows to be confronted with overexcited squealing children - the inevitable result if you spring it on them. I'm sure your DCs are lovely but the breeder nedds to meet them to make sure they are nit out ofcontrol brats who will make the poor dog's life a misery.

Similarly she needs to meet your DH to be sure that he actually wants the dog too and it isn't going to end up unwanted once it grows into a huge hairy muddy monster lolling round the house leaving a trail of destruction in it's wake.

You may well make a lovely owner, however you need to drop the fantasy scenarios and realise that dogs are like children in that they are bloody hard work and the reality of day to day life with them rarely matches the way you imagined it would be.

[midori1999]

I am a 'breeder' and there is no way whatsoever that I would consider giving a puppy to someone whose entire family (living within the family home) I had not met, regardless of how far they lived or how inconvenient it was for them. For a start, it's a measure of how commited the whole family is to the dog. I also though wouldn't let anyone who wanted the puppy as a 'suprise' for their children to have one either. A puppy going to it's new home for the first time and a couple of 'suprised' children do not a good combination make! Some puppies would be quite upset by a lot of noise/excitement in what is already a stressful situation for the puppy.

The breeder should really have made it clearer from the start that everyone would be required to visit, but I would personally take this as a sign that she is a good, responsible breeder. Not all breeders do a homecheck and she is unlikely to be able to/want to leave a litter, so wouldn't be able to visit you at home whilst she has a litter in any case.

I agree that most breeders want to meet DC to ensure they are well behaved because a) as said above they want to make sure the puppy will nto be allowed to be tormented and b) if you cannot teach your DC to behave well, you will never manage it with a dog.

[Puppydilemma]

I totally accept what everyone is saying and have dropped my plans for a surprise - stupid idea I realise now.

I have offered to take the children up to meet the breeder and the puppies soon but am worried that my DH will not be able to make it due to work commitments. It doesn't mean he is not completely on board just because he can't take a whole day off work at short notice. I wish she had told me ages ago what the criteria was so that I could have planned accordingly. She has vetted me to within an inch of my life, I feel quite exhausted by the whole process already and it's not even really begun!

I have spent ages looking for a responsible breeder so cannot be surprised if she in return wants a responsible owner.

[bochead]

Sound a bit precious to me - sorry. Not disagreeing with her desire to meet y'all, just wondering why she's not given more notice? I would have thought this requirement should have been raised at first contact, rather than sprung on you at the last minute? Wondering if she's had a recent bad experience.

My dog was sort of a suprise for my son. Her actual arrival time/date was timed so that she was settled in her crate when DS came home knackered from a birthday trip out with my sis. It was bedtime so dog and child were read a bed time story together (that just happened to be about being kind to the new arrival, my "doggy" rules, and how she needed a calm house to settle in).

He was just too chock full of awe and amazement at 4 to run around squealing or being dumb.

The "right" dog coincided with his birthday out of sheer coincidence. I collected her the day after his birthday, and got him out of the way so that I could get her nicely settled in peace. That 6 months searching was used to remind him of the doggy rules as he was only 4 and our previous dog had died a year previously. This meant he didn't inadvertently mistreat or scare the new arrival out of exitement, instead she was treated with the kind of gentle awed reverence only a 4 year old can muster.

DS knew I'd been looking for over 6 months, & had visited rescues with me, been there for home checks etc - the dog was intended as HIS companion, so I needed to sure about the temperment of the new arrival. I needed to be sure they were a good fit, never mind the rescue's opinion

I get do irritated at how few children are what I call "dog trained" as I've had to teach several of DS's friends pretty obvious basics ( no hurting the dog, don't push your face in a strange dogs face etc ). It puts children at uneccessary risk not to teach them to check with an owner first that a dog is friendly and to be gentle before approaching a strange dog in the park. Some kids are such utterly horrible brats that I'm often suprised the toll of dog bites isn't far higher. My last dog went to stay with my Mum for a while after enduring a hail of stones from local kids.

[daisydotandgertie]

The breeder is exactly right - I too wouldn't let one of my precious puppies go to live with a family who I hadn't met.

The whole family need to be absolutely committed to having a puppy and part of measuring that commitment is all of you visiting the breeder. It's not just about you wanting a responsible, committed and good breeder, a breeder who ticks all of those boxes will also require a responsible, committed and solid forever home and the only way of her checking that is to meet you all.

To be fair, you could be saying just what you want the breeder to hear about your DH - he could be absolutely against having a dog for all she knows. She's probably also concerned about your original plan of one of her puppies being a surprise/gift for your children - it would be a big old red flag for me. Tbh, if a potential owner was planning to give one of my puppies as a surprise or was reluctant to allow me to meet all of her family, they wouldn't be getting one of my pups.

Can you not manage to get everyone there over a weekend?

Puppies are hard work - you only need to trawl through the posts on here to see how difficult some people have found them. If you're exhausted before you've even got him, perhaps you should stack up on some rest.

[bamboobutton]

agree with the other posters that say the breeder is right.

although she's unreasonable not to give more notice it is at least 5-6 weeks until the pup is ready to leave its mum, can your DH not arrange a day off in that time?

[Puppydilemma]

Have taken on board what everyone has said. We told the children yesterday and all going to visit breeder and pups next week. I just panicked at how to get everyone together at such short notice.

Whole family very keen, my DH is fine although it will be me that does all the care and training. He can't commit to that. Sure that is often the way that one person is the main carer same as with the children.

The puppy wasn't a present, just a coincidence as another poster said that it wld be coming home the same weekend as one of their birthdays. Surprise is more the word than present. Anyway, everybody knows now so no surprises! Well no planned ones anyhow.

Children are very excited, they are very familiar with dogs and know not to rush up to them or squeal although the reality may well be different when they see them up close.

Any other advice anyone else can give me? I want to be as best prepared as possible. Didn't sleep well last night as I tend to over think everything.

[higgle]

When I adopted my Staffie from rescue they were absoloutely desperate to find a home for him as he was quite old, needed dental treatment and had been placed unsucessfully twice before. We were the ideal home for him, expereinced dog owners, teenaged sons, secure garden etc. etc. We accepted that it was essential for the rescue to check us all out and so we made two journeys of over 200 miles return to be vetted before we collected him ( not all of us available on one day) opened our home to the home checker and provided our vet's number as extra reference. These are just the basic precautions a breeder or rescue needs to take to ensure placement works.

[bochead]

Impress upon the children the need to be kind, gentle and quiet when they meet the pups. Tell them straight it will frighten the animal if they scream, jump up & down etc. Make it clear that if they want the dog to be their friend and not scared of them that they have to follow instructions VERY carefully & respect the dog's space. Most children are naturally kind at heart so will do all this if you take the time to explain it to them in advance.

Ensure that the pup has an area of the home that is off limits to kids (most choose a crate) think about where you'll locate it so it's somewhere quiet and calm in an otherwise bustling household. It's summat you could think about now to help control your own anticipation. Also worth finding a local/online source of the pups regular food so you can ensure continuity & no upset tummies.

If getting a dog for the first time I'd do a bit of research to find a local practice that's based on personal recomendation - so much more reassuring in the event of emergency! (Vets do vary considerably in quality same as everything else). In the same vein once you've found a vet it's worth getting the low down on what insurance co they trust & details of a local groomer if you think you'l need one.

[higgle]

Just remembered a happy memory from when we went to be checked for our PBGV puppy 19 years ago - DS1 was 2 at the time and very gentle with mummy dog and the puppies, who were in a play pen in breeders sitting room. As we were going he went back and planted big kiss on mummy dog's head - we passed the vetting.