What does anyone do with a dog that runs off?

[silentcatastrophe]

I have probably asked this before.... Our pup (18 months) bolts and comes home only when he is good and ready. I have spoken to so many trainers and behaviourists about this, but am really no further forward. Do we simply have a delinquent dog? A behaviourist did come to the house, but frankly he was rubbish and told me to do what I was already doing, and provided categorically no insight whatsoever. This man is a member of reputable organisations, and I was really quite taken aback. One sheepdog trainer thought that we might have to resort to a collar of some sort, which I haven't done, because I don't want to worsen the situation. Next week we are off to see another sheepdog trainer, who uses a thing called The Natural Method.
When horror dog is on a line, he behaves really well, and like a normal dog. Off the lead, he just goes. He is not deaf, and to date, the pleasure he gets from racing around is infinitely greater than anything we can offer him.

I don't like keeping dogs on the lead one bit unless I have to. We have the problem that if he won't come back, he can't go off.

[CoffeeIsMyFriend]

some dogs just need to 'work' they enjoy it. I know that training our pup is what she loves to do, when she is older we will do agility.

My friend and breeder was dancing round my dining room singing to the dogs and they were twirling and weaving through her legs. I couldnt stop laughing.

[silentcatastrophe]

We are going to have another session with the trainer to make sure we are on the right tracks. I think we really should be doing agility or something with Toby. Or heelwork to music!!! Yay! We could listen to the Happy Hammond, and dance around in electric nylon!!!

[CoffeeIsMyFriend]

Just read your thread silent well done to you. I would say you are definitely on the right track. If you feel a little disheartened, just go back to the beginning of this thread and re read it.

[silentcatastrophe]

I think we may be turning a corner. I cannot believe we are round it yet, but we seem to be on it....

[silentcatastrophe]

Toby is only just learning about hide and seek. Previously he was absolutely hopeless, and ran off. Today I took him out on a really skinny long long line wondering how soon it would take him to make a break for it. He ran off once for about 5 minutes, then came back when he noticed me and I changed direction. A second time, much closer to home, he bolted off into the wild blue yonder, and needless to say, got stuck.

I am not sure how to react when I see him stuck, so I decided to do as he does, and take no notice of him and walk away (for me, really to find the end of his line).

His running off seems less dramatic, and he comes back sooner. Are we moving along the right track?

[misschenko]

My dog loves the hide and seek game and its great for recall. When we were confined to home/garden for the first 4 days of his gundog training I'd make him sit and stay and then hide in various places around the house and garden then blow the whistle to recall. When I was hiding in the wardrobe I could hear him sniffing round the room first really using his nose to find me.

[frostyfingers]

I know this won't help you with Toby, but it may help with others who have younger dogs. We have only ever had gundogs so it may be that it wouldn't work with other types, but it could be worth a try.

I play hide and seek with ours when they are small - first at home and then out on walks. Obviously you need to have developed a bond with the dog, but essentially at random moments on a walk I used to duck down behind a bush or tree (be very careful where and when you do this if in a public place though!) and wait for the dog to find me. Once they have you give them lots of praise and carry on - it's a game, but it encourages them to keep an eye on you and not disappear over the horizon.

[silentcatastrophe]

Toby did run off today. Not for nearly as long as before, and he did stop before he got back to us. Not as quickly as I told him to, so hardly remote control! I think these techniques are for when you NEED the dog to behave. I feel a bit mean, thinking, No, actually, Toby, you are not ALLOWED to pull on the lead.

[misschenko]

No treats allowed in gundog training, when the trainer told me this I said my dog wouldn't do anything without being bribed with treats. So he took the dog and walked him and sat him and told him to stay and he did it all without a single treat, and not loads of praise either just the occasional quiet "good lad" and a few head strokes. I was completely and haven't given him any treats since, also toned down the praise as I think I used to overdo it and it didn't mean anything to him.

[silentcatastrophe]

It is very important to get the behaviour right at home. For me, I didn't really understand what the right behaviour was. Do you use treats? We have been told that touch is a very effective treat.

[misschenko]

I've started gundog training with my 12 month lab, which has done wonders for his recall. I don't see any reason why info from the first lesson shouldn't work with non-gundogs. We were told not to walk dog at all until responding well to whistle and hand signal recall in house and garden. We had to do 3 x 15 minute training sessions a day (recall, lead walking practice using slip lead, stops from a distance etc). Once dog responded consistently (it took mine 4 days. I was very surprised that he didn't seem to miss his hour long off lead walks and wasn't bouncing off the walls) move to next stage and practice everything in a quiet safe area, I used a car park late in the evening so no grass or interesting smells. The level of distraction is gradually increased but make sure dog able to do everything perfectly before moving on. After 2 weeks I was able to let him off lead in our usual walking place and he stayed much closer than he used to so I didn't have much opportunity to use the recall whistle but when I did he came back instantly.

[silentcatastrophe]

We are getting on ok. Today we have been out with a highly dangerous piece of string with dog attached. This is because the lunge line is relatively heavy. Toby didn't pull and didn't try to run off. I don't know what he thought of the string. Yesterday I nearly got dragged into the river, such was the excitement of swimming!

I am spending even more time just watching the dogs and trying to notice their behaviour.

When Toby runs off, it is clear that treats and toys are of absolutely no interest. The way we are going at the moment recognises this, and hopefully will help to strengthen our relationship.

[silentcatastrophe]

It's not your fault, Exit! Horror dog is/was THE SAME!!! www.groveshilldogwhisperers.co.uk/sarahjenkins.html

[ExitPursuedByATroll]

I knew it would all be my fault.



How do I have to move? Is it available on Youtube?

[silentcatastrophe]

Well... I think we may be on to something! No more treats, no more being dragged around on the lead, and a recall in the making.... A lot of what the trainer made sense in that you need to practice good behaviour in the house. She uses a thing called the Natural Method which is not something I know very much about. It involves touch and pressure and release. I don't think I understand enough to explain simply, but I think it means that we, as humans, behave and move in such a way that the dog does not feel the need or desire to make executive decisions, and allows us to take responsibility. As such, is more likely to work with us than do their own thing.

[ExitPursuedByATroll]

My Springer used to be the same, but the tennis ball has been my friend. Unless there is a duck or a goose about, the ball is what he wants. If there is a duck or a goose about, there is nothing I could do to possibly make myself more interesting.

Good luck.

[WoodRose]

Silentcatastrophe - Please come back and tell us how you get on. My 9 mos old collie puppy has well and truly entered her adolescent phase. Up until 7 months, her recall was excellent. For the last 2 months, however, it has been "Talk to the paw, 'cause the ears ain't listening". She is back on the long line until her recall is back on track and it is tedious for her and me. Training classes resume in 2 weeks time, so I'm gritting my teeth until then.

[silentcatastrophe]

We have a harness for horror dog. We worked out, eventually that we have lots of this kind of thing!! So many things forgotten about in cupboards for our other dogs who no longer need them, then you find that the vital bit is missing.

Toby has had the snip for his valentine's day present. He was 14 months old. We were advised that he should be lifting his leg before the op took place. It has made no difference whatsoever to his behaviour, although we have lost the risk that he might go after bits of skirt.

How I would love to be able to let this hound off the lead to burn off some energy, but it feels utterley irresponsible when he won't come when he's called. Must find out where we are actually going tomorrow! The lady says she deals frequently with this problem, so I hope she can offer some insight and we can change our ways sufficiently!

I have also noticed that Toby reacts very harshly to being nipped by other dogs. He becomes quite aggressive. I do wonder if he has ever been really put in his place by another dog.

[Kingsroadie]

Thanks a lot. Will get a harness for longline and think about the neutering timings too. V helpful. Yes he has treat balls and a kong bottle with a rope in it and brain training (you hide treats in it and he has to work out how to get them out etc), and I do little training sessions with him too. They are def v bright!

[mymumdom]

Yep, am a vet and after years of advising owners to 'snip' asap have noticed that it rarely calmed dogs down as much as I'd like to think it had. I now say neuter once they have lifted their leg for a week.
Poodle crosses are on the other end of the intelligence spectrum to mine ( bless her) and you need to make sure he is getting enough to exercise his brain as well as his little legs.
Ten minutes fun training/ obedience games 2-3x a day as well as a couple of shorter walks a day rather than one big one. Also feed in a treat ball, or hide his dinner around the house/garden.
There are some good books on 'thinking' games for dogs.

[minimu11]

Yep always use a long line with a harness.

I would not get him castrated to stop him running off - I doubt that it will help at all with that. Obviously get him castrated for health reasons and to prevent accidental mating.

If you are not getting any obvious issues eg spraying furniture etc I delay castration until after 14 months but it is a personal issue.

I would carry on with the long lead but I would be looking at the rewards he gets for recall. If he loves meeting other dogs then can his reward for recall be greeting other dogs sometimes?

Do keep at it - I know it seems a long time but hopefully you will have your dog for 16 years so a few months on a long line now will be worth it

[Kingsroadie]

Mymum - good idea re harness! Thanks! Your dog sounds hilarious - mine is very sharp sadly - may be my downfall. A friend has a saluki who also isn't the brightest spark...

Re the chop - I know there are differing opinions on when to do it - I haven't actually had a chance to read into yet to make an informed decision - just going by what my vet has advised me ( I think you are also a vet!) ... won't be doing it for at least another month or so though, and will research it properly before making a decision! Thank you!

[mymumdom]

Kingsroadie, what about putting a harness on your pup with the longline so you don't hurt his neck? At 5 months, he's not even a teenager, I'd let him hang on to his bits until he was lifting his leg if I were you.

[mymumdom]

We have a lurcher, a saluki/ greyhound cross. She loves her walks and could easily outrun me if she thought about it. She also has a strong prey drive but luckily for me she is not very bright.
I will only let her out the front door with her lead on, I click the latch on the lead a few times before I put it on her and this drives her into a frenzy of excitement. When I let her off the lead, I can call her, whistle, wave a sausage around madly, she ignores me completely. But if I stand still and click the lead-catch she's there by my side, begging for me to put the lead on so she can go for a walk, even though she's already free to run.
Intelligence in dogs is over rated...

[Kingsroadie]

I also have the same problem (although clearly not as bad as my puppy is only 5 months old). He bolts when he sees another dog. He LOVES other dogs (they don't always love him as he jumps all over them). I try and prevent it as much as possible by catching him before he runs. But with a toddler this isn't always possible. I have bought special sheepskin and rabbit fur toys I bring out in the park and a ball on a rope, use hotdog treats and a whistle. He was pretty good at coming back when we first started using the whistle but is now not very good (He is fine in the house but it's with the distraction of another dog).

We have used a long line but he runs at full pelt and then almost kills himself when the longline stops/we step on it. Ie so fast he flipped over with my husband this weekend - which makes me worried to use it! I have read Culture Clash etc and lots of books about making myself the most interesting, but no matter how hard I try with the above things, I am still not more interesting than other dogs. I mean, my puppy just goes mad for other dogs and they mostly aren't interested. Even the other puppies. He is a bit of a lunatic generally - he is a cockapoo and very very lively, but he does sit, down, off, paw, stay etc very well. He is still entire and we plan on having him chopped soon (our vet advises asap but as he is a poodle cross she wants to wait another few weeks or a month to check he loses his baby canines - apparently poodles sometimes don't and have to have them out so she would whip them out at the same time as castration), which may (hopefully) help.

So really I am asking Minimu for a bit of advice - do I keep persevering with the longline (even though it regularly garotts him?!) and recall/pulling him back if he ignores me, then treating etc. He really needs to be off lead to burn his masses of energy. At the moment I mostly let him off only in the dog run (but he can get under the fence at one part of it which isn't ideal by any means) as I can't 100% concentrate on him with the toddler too. Although I do sometimes let him off in the main park. We live in London btw so he can bolt but it's a small park and he can't get that far (maybe 100m across). However, obv we really need to sort it out!

Thanks so much in advance, sorry for hijack and silent - I feel your pain (although you seem to have done so much and are clearly far more experienced than me! )