Getting a male dog 'done'

[SeaGreen]

Can some of the lovely posters here please give me reasons why getting a male dog done is not a bad idea (from the dog's perspective)?

DH has a big problem with the fact that we got the dog done (when he was about 6 months old).

It was primarily I who wanted to get it done for a variety of reasons after doing quite a bit of research. Most of those were health reasons (e.g. reduced risk of testicular cancer at an advanced age). DH went along with it then but has since undergone a massive change of heart and bitterly regrets having gone along (some of it may be a 'male thing', however justified or unjustified). This has caused a great deal of bitterness and resentment between us. It didn't help that some time ago, at the vet's, the receptionist advised someone on the phone in front of us that there were no strong health or other grounds either way and so it was totally upto the owner to get it done.

If you believe (based on facts/ research) that neutering is completely unnecessary, please feel free to tell me so. Otherwise would appreciate any links or studies or info that you can give me on why neutering a male dog is not a bad thing for the dog.

[SeaGreen]

jooly yep went and checked again just to be sure. there was only an incision scar before the hair grew back. nothing else.
so this clearly was unnecessarily invasive.

great. how is one supposed to second guess a professional when they do this??

just what DH needs to know to never ever let this topic go!

[Joolyjoolyjoo]

Ah- but when was he done? As I said, the scrotal sac does recede and disappear. Even if they did take all the skin around, it's possible they do this just to give a more "cosmetic" appearance, and wouldn't have any adverse effect on healing/ recovery. You said it was done in another country? possibly that's the standard procedure there??

[hellymelly]

Well my dog looks as though there is nothing there,but post op he had the sac still in place,it just shrunk away as he got older.Also why would that bother you? your dog has recovered fine,even if they did lop the lot off, it isn't what you can describe as "invasive", as it is external surgery,not like spaying a bitch.If they just cut the tubes,like a vasectomy,then the dog would be unable to reproduce but all the other issues would still be in place as the testicles would still be producing testosterone.Why is your DH so concerned about this? Is he ove-ridentifying with the dog? It is our duty as dog owners to give them a safe and healthy life and by neutering you are helping that.Also in wolf packs only the most dominant dog gets to mate,your average house dog isn't missing much,dogs are not people.

[SeaGreen]

he was done i think feb 2007.
the only thought in my mind is whether my dog had a more painful/ longer recovery. well, it was a long time ago and it's over now so i guess it's ok.
yes, you're right, maybe it is standard procedure in that country. not too many people get their dogs done there so maybe the protocol isn't as well developed.

personally i don't care about how it was done so long as (a) he didn't suffer more unnecessarily (b) he's happy and healthy now.

i know helly but if i could only get the message across!

[Joolyjoolyjoo]

FWIW, I doubt his recovery would have been any longer or more painful, even if they did take away the excess skin, so hope that puts your mind at rest

I see soo many dogs in later life with problems they would never have had had they been castrated, that I do think it is a good thing, in the long run.

My dad, otoh, is/ was very against the whole procedure (no medical/ veterinary knowledge, just "male thinking") and begged with me not to do old boy when he was a pup. Of course I did- but I kept the testicles in formalin and gifted them to my dad (he didn't speak to me for a week ) I could always send your DH some testicles if that will make him happier....

[kid]

Like Abr1de's experience, my 7 month old puppy died during his neutering operation. There are no definite reasons as to why he died.

As a result, I will not be getting current puppy neutered. I don't actually care if people think that's wrong or irresponsible of me, I will not even consider it as an option.

I know how badly I suffered and how truamatic it was for my dc. Even after 7 months, dd can't bring herself to talk about our puppy or what happened to him on that dreadful day. I still cry for him now and still want him back which I know is ridiculous as he is gone forever

[LotteryWinnersOnAcid]

I got my dogs (staffies) neutered and spayed because rescues are overflowing with them and I do not want to add to that problem. I am not a breeder and if, for example, my bitch was unspayed and became pregnant, I would not have the time or money to dedicate to making sure the pups have the best start in terms of health and finding new homes. Mainly I would not be able to guarantee being able to take back the pups if there were any problems once rehomed, it just isn't realistic for me, and I wouldn't want to take the chance that pups I have been irresponsible enough to produce (not biologically, but I am responsible for neutering my dogs!) will be passed from pillar to post, from one "can't cope" owner to another and destined for rescue.

[LotteryWinnersOnAcid]

Also, Abr1de and kid, I am really sorry about your dogs, that must have been devastating.

[Abr1de]

Thank you. It was awful. But life goes on and our new pup is a great solace.

[kid]

Abr1de I also found it a huge comfort to get another dog. It was all I could think about and gave me something else to focus on other than our pup's death.
Even after we got our new pup it was hard as I was convinced he too would die. Totally irrational, but it was difficult to bond with him. He has been with us now for 4 1/2 months and I am besotted with him.

[Themasterandmargaritas]

I'm planning to get ours done soon, what age is an optimal age? He is now 6 months old. He recently got out through a locked area, through the fence and thorny bush to get to the neighbour's ladies. It caused quite a neighbourly friction and i did suggest they sort out their bitches but I think it's a cultural thing for them. So long as they don't come knocking on the door asking for child support.

I will, of course, be more than happy to help them find good decent homes should there be puppies.

[Eleison]

I'm interested in the question about optimal age, too. With my previous dog, a Spinone, the breeder urged me to let him grow up fully before neutering, saying that if neutered too early a dog doesn't mature properly, in some way. No idea if that is true, but we left him till 18 months, since Spinones are a slow-maturing breed and we had no problems with straying or sexual aggression.

So when I got my PR terrier I was already stocked with the idea that he should 'mature fully' before neutering and I didn't neuter him until 11 months. I worry now that I should have done it much earlier, before any habits associated with sexual maturity had developed. He is quite unreliable with other males. Should I have neutered him around 6 months? Would it have made a difference?

[Eleison]

(My father, like many men mentioned on the thread, was quite unhelpful about it, saying that it was 'cruel' to take away 'something so important' to a dog and that bitches should be the only ones neutered 'since they are the ones that get pregnant'.

[midori1999]

I (and I am a breeder, not a vet) prefer to see dogs neutered once they are mature. Neutering affects the timing of the closure of the growth plates and results in taller, leggier dogs, which is also thought to exacerbate any potential or existing joint problems.

[midori1999]

Themasterandmargaritas I have entire bitches (and in fact an entire male dog, although he will be neutered later on) and I would be absolutely furious if one of my neighbours let their dog escape into my garden and then suggested I neuter my bitches in an attempt to solve the problem. I do only allow my girls supervised access to the garden when in season but it is other dog owners responsibility to keep their dogs under control and out of my garden.

If I can manage to keep my own dog under control and away from my in season bitches, then I don't think it's unfair to expect other people to.

Neutering may or may not stop him escaping. You need better fencing and supervision.

[Themasterandmargaritas]

Midori, I don't need a hard time from you thank you. It is a mutual fence, I offered to go halves in putting up a new fence but was told no, they leave their bitches (3) locked up most of the day in an outdoor kennel and let them out to run around the garden only a night. They spend a lot of the day crying and then most of the night barking. They are what we call here 'street dogs', one is severely emaciated. They are not breeders.

In my opinion they have a duty of care to those bitches not to put them through unnecessary pregnancies and thus to have them spayed. It is as much their responsibility as it is mine.

My duty is to supervise my dog, which we do do at all times as we have a gardener during the day and a guard at night. We locked him away in a secure area, he escaped. We secured the fence. He got through.

[midori1999]

However they treat their bitches, and it doesn't sound very pleasant to say the least, it is still not their responsibility to prevent you rdog getting into their garden, or keep your dog under control. A 'secure' area is not very secure if a dog can escape it, is it?

I can't imagine the short shrift I'd give my neighbour if their dog got into my garden and they suggested I was partly responsible for that. (in fact, my neighbours dog, a bitch, persistently jumped into my garden, despite my neighbour putting up 2 6ft fences, the dog still cleared them in a matter of seconds. So now said dog must be tied up at all times when she is outside and no longer gets into our garden. I'm quite lucky in that my neighbour is lovely and appreciated it was her responsibility to keep her dog under control.

[Themasterandmargaritas]

Do you know what, every time I try to post on a thread in 'Pets' I get grief and harrassment, in all my years on MN it is the only 'section' where this consistently happens to those asking for advice and help.

If I were you I'd save your anger and direct at those that really don't give a shit about animals and not those who love their pets dearly.

I shall completely forget from now on about asking for advice in this topic, which is a huge shame, given that there is not a great deal of expertise to draw on where I live and there is clearly a great deal of expertise available from people here, if only it were offered in a less aggressive way.

[Scruffyhound]

Hello I used to be a vet nurse and I was training and had my westie dog done I helped with the op making sure he was ok doing his obs. I also cleaned his teeth after! I was so glad he had it done. I would say all dogs should be done. If you got to a dogs home and they are not done they will make sure they are before they leave or you have to show proof of having it done when the time is right. I had the westie (whos is now not with us) done and had to prove it. He was used as a breeding dog and not kept in nice conditions and was 5 rys old when I got him with no name not house trained and was found in a concrete pen with others and underweight. I will say something that will upset people on here I dont think dogs should breed. There are so many homeless ones. Just visit your local dogs home and tell me you dont feel sad in some way? So my reasons are its better for their health long term, it can calm the dog down, and its stops more unwanted puppies. I have a bitch too she was also done. Its a male pride thing we used to get that at the vets where I worked! You have done the right thing. I have never heard anyone say dont get it done unless the dog is really old and/or cant cope with the op for medical reasons.

[kid]

i would have agreed with you Scruffyhound, up until my perfectly healthy 7 month old puppy went in for a routine neutering operation. He died on the operating table and we have never been given any reason why this happened.

I am now the very proud owner of an almost 7 month old pup and he will not be getting neutered. I know the odds of it happening again are very small, but its not a risk I am willing to take.

[Abr1de]

Kid, thank you for your empathy. I am glad you are enjoying your new dog, too.

[Scruffyhound]

Im very sorry to hear of you puppy passing away kid. Thats sad that you were not given a reason why or even some sort of explaination did the vets offer pre op bloods? In your situation I can uderstand not having it done for this puppy. What I have said is that in general its better. I cant say that we had any dogs or cats pass away whilst I worked there from a routine op. But that does not ease the pain of loosing you little pup. Wish you all the luck with this little un!

[kid]

The vet gave some possible reasons for his death, but of course we will never know for sure. The reasons they gave were an aneurism, a stroke or possibly congenital heart disease. As we didn't do the post mortem, we'll never know for sure. I do not trust the vet though as I was given 2 versions of the event from the same vet.
I feel he did something wrong and I am unable to enter that vets ever again for what pain they caused me and my family.

I am over the moon with my new pup. We've had him since august and he is pretty much perfect. We were able to give Moby a loving home for his short life, now we are able to give teddy a loving home too.