The Tudors again....

[ipanemagirl]

It is awful isn't it but I watched the latest episode to the end with my mother. She felt that JRMyers is unforgiveably young for the role and should have been more fetid looking and more like the paintings we have of him.

And all that 'madge' stuff and Anne sobbing in her bed and Anne's brother and the hugely gay musician, and Henry trying to give Anne one and her refusing. It's all so lame somehow. When the real story was pretty exciting!

[ipanemagirl]

2ifbysea, I don't think Mary Boleyn's child/children by Henry is absolutely known. But there was definitely an illegitimate son by on mistress, I think Henry Fitz something who Henry made attempts to enoble with a view to succession but once Edward was born that became less urgent.

Just read at Amazon about Henry Fitzroy son of Elizabeth Blount Henry's only acknowledged Illeg child.

[Gobbledigook]

I haven't read the Antonia Fraser one so can't say how it differs.

[TwoIfBySea]

Doesn't answer my last question but Wiki'd and found this...

"In Lady Antonia Fraser's biography, Mary Queen of Scots, the author writes that it took two strikes to decapitate Mary: the first blow missed her neck and struck the back of her head, at which point the queen's lips moved (her servants reported they thought she had whispered the words "Sweet Jesus"). The second blow severed the neck, all but a small bit of sinew which the executioner severed by using the axe as a saw. One Robert Wynkfield recorded a detailed account of the moments leading up to Mary's execution, also describing that it took two strikes to behead the queen. Afterward, the executioner held her head aloft and declared, "God save the Queen." At that moment, the auburn tresses in his hand came apart and the head fell to the ground, revealing that Mary had very short, grey hair.[10] The chemise that Mary wore at her execution is displayed at Coughton Court near Alcester in Warwickshire, which was a Catholic household at that time.

It has been suggested that it took three strikes to decapitate Mary instead of two. If so, then Mary would have been executed with the same number of axe strikes as Essex. It has been postulated that said number was part of a ritual devised to protract the suffering of the victim."

I should really read up on this. I'm studying history with the OU, you wouldn't think it, just not this era.

[TwoIfBySea]

expat, did Mary Boleyn not have children by Henry VIII and one of them a son?

Don't think she has really been mentioned much in this.

I remember once reading a letter written by Elizabeth to her brother, in the British Library when it was still attached to the British Museum in London. It was really interesting to see how emotional she would be when you think of our stone-cold royalty.

Who was it who took 14 blows to loose their head then? I was sure I'd read once it was Mary QoS, but it was someone female, around this time, very high up.

[ipanemagirl]

Gobbledigook, how does that book compare with the antiona Fraser one of almost exactly the same name? I loved that.

Of course it's only a Dwamatisation but still, the real stories are great, it does seem odd that some of the things are changed.

I just can't get over the appalling acting of JRM, it just cracks me up to think of him bathing in his self love.....

[Gobbledigook]

I love The Tudors - don't forget it's a dramatisation, and hasn't set out to be a historically accurate account (although the jist of the events is fairly accurate anyway from what I can make out).

I've got this although mine has a different cover - tis great, read ita couple of times and might just start it again actually. I wish I could retain all the detail in my pea-sized brain but I can't!

[expatinscotland]

No, I just studied a lot of medieval history at university and have a good memory when it comes to that.

Thomas More we read in philosophy class and he seemed an interesting man who was ahead of his time, particularly when it came to how women were viewed, so I read some stuff about him.

[LaVieEnRose]

Expat do you have a Phd in Tudor history? You know everything!

[expatinscotland]

Her daughter was not a cruel person. She was very savvy, extremely clever and appeared to learn from just about everyone's mistakes, including her own.

Hence, why her reign was extraordinarily long and successful.

But Anne, well, she had her faults, that is for sure .

[boogeek]

I am hugely impressed by all of you. My history education consisted of coming up with our own opinions of what happened to the body in the bog, and making a collage of the bayeaux tapestry . No wonder I preferred science.

[LaVieEnRose]

Expat, I think I've been swayed too much by the BBC version of Anne!

At least her daughter wasn't that bad. Was she?

[expatinscotland]

night!

[Clary]

right must go to bed now and stop discussing Tudor history

[expatinscotland]

snap!

[expatinscotland]

i believe it was the duke of clarence, then that means he may have been Margaret Pole's father.

their mother had been very fertile and had many children, a rather extraordinary number of whom survived to adulthood.

nevilles. either they were nevilles or their mother was a neville, i can't remember which.

[Clary]

Oh OK we are both right look and his daughter was that same Margaret countess of Salisbury that Henry VIII beheaded!

[Clary]

expat impressed by knowledge of Tudors.

Vat of malmsey - wasn't that the Duke of Clarence? (but which one...I want to say back in Edward III time - he had a lot of children didn't he and it all got a bit complicated?)

[expatinscotland]

LaVie, she was way too old and savvy and clever to have just been a puppet of her father.

Her sister was a bit dumber, for sure, but Anne was definitely NO fool, especially when it came to men.

[SaintGeorge]

Have you ever read this expat?

Wonderful book.

[LaVieEnRose]

Haven't got that far in her biography yet Expat. I think I want to believe that she was just doing what her dad told her?



Alright, she was an evil cowbag

[expatinscotland]

well, no, she didn't deserve to be killed.

but nor did so many she plotted to have knocked off.

more was asked if he bore her any ill will, it was common knowledge she pressed henry to have him executed even after he'd resigned/retired, and he correctly predicted that she would reap what she sowed.

not to mention, her treatment of mary tudor was utterly appalling. it really was.

[expatinscotland]

well, no, she didn't deserve to be killed.

but nor did so many she plotted to have knocked off.

more was asked if he bore her any ill will, it was common knowledge she pressed henry to have him executed even after he'd resigned/retired, and he correctly predicted that she would reap what she sowed.

not to mention, her treatment of mary tudor was utterly appalling. it really was.

[LaVieEnRose]

true Expat, but I don't believe she deserved to be killed ( well, who does?) She was definitely conniving as she had been brought up to be but once she became queen she lost a lot of her power over Henry as she was then controlled by him.

And she had a lot of enemies (of her own making no doubt!) who then made sure to turn Henry against her. The fact that she didn't have a son (hardly her fault) didn't help her cause either.

[expatinscotland]

'Sir TM got the chop, DP was surprised, LOL!! He said 'oh I didn't see that coming, I thought he was going to call it off at the last minute or something, I didn't know he had that bloke really killed.'

[expatinscotland]

She was a bit of a conniving person, LaVie, who could hold a grudge that could quite literally be the death of you.

She was definitely complicit in the deaths of Thomas More and John Fisher, among others, as well as the near deaths of quite a few of her enemies.