Our Yorkshire Farm

[sniffingthewax]

Have watched this family for years and read her books. Age is really catching up on Clive, he can hardly bend over now, it is very apparent in this new series. I don't like how the programme is becoming more contrived, it's obvious a lot of it is staged for the camera.

[DarlingNikita]

The same could be said about half the stuff kids learn in school! What's important is that they are learning skills such as working in a team.
I agree. The specific things you learn are only part of it. And in this case, things like shearing and driving give you skills like hand-eye coordination, tool-handling, organising time and materials, physical strength, courage and deftness, all of which are highly valuable in lots of scenarios, careers and life generally.
I haven't seen the new series, but from what I have seen the kids strike me as skilled, thoughtful, harmonious and thoroughly admirable.

[derxa]

How many 15 year olds do you know that can weld and fix tractors?
Not many, but the value of that is somewhat limited unless it is what he wants to do as a job?
My second cousin learnt all that stuff on the farm and gave him a love of machinery. He went on to get a techy development job with BMW.
No skill is wasted.

[Acciocats]

I think the kids have a perfectly nice life overall, in many respects they’re learning a lot of skills and having experiences richer than a kid who sits on a screen all day.

My issues with the series are the lack of regard for safety... little children tearing around on quad bikes without helmets is just fucking irresponsible, end of.

Also it’s ridiculous to try to portray the family as living a very simple, hand to mouth remote life. There probably are farming families doing exactly that up in the hill farms in Yorkshire: the difference is, we don’t know about them because they don’t have a tv series and book deals!

As I say, nothing in particular against the family (bar the safety issues which are appalling) The children probably have a happier childhood than many others. But let’s not pretend it’s something it isn’t. Amanda set out to get in the media and put her family there, which is what she’s achieved, and is by all accounts doing nicely out of it

[Doubleraspberry]

The Health and Safety risks were raised after the first series, by other farmers, not just casual viewers. Eg

unitelive.org/irresponsible-our-yorkshire-farm-safety/

www.fwi.co.uk/business/business-management/health-and-safety/child-safety-fears-raised-over-family-farm-tv-show

If you look at farming forums opinion is pretty split between those who agree with the concerns and those who think it’s all overblown. But many of them thought the HSE would come down on them whether or not they thought they should.

[Acciocats]

Those links are interesting @Doubleraspberry. As they point out, farms are the most dangerous workplace in the country in terms of fatal and life changing accidents, and most of those happen to people living or working on the farm. So familiarity is no safety net.

Whatever the benefits of the lifestyle to the kids, it’s blindingly obvious that if their parents were responsible, those kids would be getting all those benefits but without blatant safety breaches, and also without being plastered on channel 5. I’m sure there are other families on hill farms where the children have lovely lives which are safe and not exposed to the media like this. Bottom line is: Amanda was desperate for exposure- she didn’t actually just desperately want to be a hill farmer as she claims. She wanted to be in front of tv cameras, get herself on social media and put the children out there too.

[derxa]

I understand all your objections about H and S but... I grew up on a farm and did a lot of risky things like making tunnels in bale stacks, riding on tractors/trailers and driving tractors on slopes at 12. I've never worn a safety helmet while driving a quad bike etc. On the other hand I would never stand near a cow's back end or go into a field with cows and calves in it

[housinghelp101]

Is it right though derxa that because people did risky things and lived to tell the tale to continue that? I don't know anything about farming so don't know the actual risks. I do agree though if they are breaching rules/regs then it's probably not a great idea to advertise it on tv. God forbid if something happened to one of them the footage could be used against them for being negligent.

[Doubleraspberry]

Well it’s like any risky behaviour, isn’t it? Most will be OK and some won’t, and we all accept our individual tolerance of risk. Children and adults die falling off hay bales and quad bikes and I can why the NFU was concerned to see risky practices on screen without comment.

[Acciocats]

Agree that we all calculate risks on a daily basis and individuals will have varying tolerance levels. It moves into a different realm though when it is not just an individual calculation in a grey area (where there would be no clear right or wrong) The parents in this case are breaching very clear regulations which are there for their own and their kids’ (and indeed anyone else working on their farm) protection. It’s fucking irresponsible to just flout those. And many of the s
Issues are so easily sorted- wear a helmet for quad biking, don’t load vehicles up with more people than they are designed for.

I’m not denying for a moment that the kids seems happy and are learning lots of things it’s just that they could be equally happy and rich in experience without being exposed to the stupid risks which they are

[derxa]

God forbid if something happened to one of them the footage could be used against them for being negligent. Yes that's the problem. Maybe they have a duty of care not to show risky behaviour. On the other hand farmers are risk takers in every sense of the word. You'll never legislate for that.

[housinghelp101]

Yes I agree Derxa and largely I agree within limits that families can/should risk assess themselves. However, it is my understanding that a farm is a place of work(?) and minors in particular must be protected from risk. I think people are so "oh not the 'elf and safety brigade again" because the lifestyle looks so wholesome. If the Owens owned a factory and showed multiple children on forklifts indoors, or children climbing high shelving units I don't think their reaction would be the same.

[Acciocats]

. If the Owens owned a factory and showed multiple children on forklifts indoors, or children climbing high shelving units I don't think their reaction would be the same.

^ This 100%

[derxa]

If the Owens owned a factory and showed multiple children on forklifts indoors, or children climbing high shelving units I don't think their reaction would be the same. That wouldn't happen because they would be in the way.

[derxa]

I'm probably the wrong person to discuss this. My brother (a farmer) was killed by a car while he was a pedestrian

[Acciocats]

Today 10:26 derxa

If the Owens owned a factory and showed multiple children on forklifts indoors, or children climbing high shelving units I don't think their reaction would be the same.

That wouldn't happen because they would be in the way.

I don’t really understand the above point. No doubt the kids are in the way a lot of the time on the farm. Apart from the older lad who came in handy fixing machinery, the little kids were basically being carted around out of necessity. When the older girl was at school they had no on tap baby minder. The younger kids were chucking hay out for the sheep but quite honestly it wasn’t anything the parents couldn’t do themselves (or get others to do if they bought in help)

[housinghelp101]

Sorry for your loss Derxa As i said I don't know anything about farming and although they appear to have a lovely life, I'm going on the link above stating that farming is the most hazardous place of work and it probably isn't in their best interest to advertise their breaches of H&S on national tv. Would I allow my child to go on a quad without a helmet? Possibly. Would I put that on TV if it was my business/livelihood? Most certainly not.

[derxa]

or get others to do if they bought in help Are you being serious here?
Farming is not a well paid endeavour especially not hill sheep farming.
The point is that the they are teaching the kids how to farm and farming is often repeated mundane tasks.
Would I allow my child to go on a quad without a helmet? Possibly. Would I put that on TV if it was my business/livelihood? Most certainly not. Good point.
Anyway I don't know why I'm defending Amanda so much. I don't even like her
Much more realistic farming programmes are ones like This Farming Life That featured a buffalo farmer who was gored by one of his animals. No health and safety rules can stop that.

[Acciocats]

Derxa I have no idea of their finances, my point was that they have a responsibility towards their children and also to anyone working on the farm. Some farmers do have farm hands either on a casual or long term basis.

The fundamental issue though (which was why I didn’t understand your pp) is that the principle is exactly the same whether it’s a farm, or whether they are living over the shop or running a factory. The younger children aren’t born knowing how to help; it was clear that they were only there out of necessity when they were small (when elder girl not available to child mind) Yes as they got older they were being trained up to do jobs BUT in principle this is no different to having your kids trailing after you in a warehouse, climbing on shelves etc. Gradually they would learn some helpful skills but that doesn’t justify putting them in unsafe situations. I think it’s only because it’s the wholesome outdoors and not a factory that some people defend them

[MrsPelligrinoPetrichor]

The younger kids were chucking hay out for the sheep but quite honestly it wasn’t anything the parents couldn’t do themselves (or get others to do if they bought in help)

Why shouldn't they learn how to feed the sheep?

[derxa]

BUT in principle this is no different to having your kids trailing after you in a warehouse, climbing on shelves etc It is. The kids would just be playing in a dangerous place in a warehouse. On the farm the Owens are anticipating danger every minute.
My kids were brought up as townies and I was a nervous wreck walking them along a pavement and crossing roads.
Actually one of the greatest problems in farming is poor mental health and suicide.

[Acciocats]

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor I think maybe you misunderstood my point, which is that there is nothing different in principle to kids trailing around a warehouse and trailing around a farm. Both are potentially dangerous workplaces. People only have a sentimental romanticised view of the latter because it’s seen as wholesome and it’s outdoors. The fact is, the children should not be operating or working on machinery when they are too young (and there are regulations about this) and they should not be riding around on quad bikes without helmets or piled on vehicles designed for a single user

And of course there’s nothing wrong with learning to feed the sheep! My point there was simply in response to someone saying they were helping out on the farm. It was pretty plain that the tiny children were carted around because both parents were working and had no free babysitter on tap while the elder girl was at school. Sure, they learned the skills to actually help as they grew older but there’s no way those little ones were performing some vital function during the animal feeding.

[MrsPelligrinoPetrichor]

Sure, they learned the skills to actually help as they grew older but there’s no way those little ones were performing some vital function during the animal feeding

I get it ,but I don't think there is anything wrong with kids helping out while their parents work as long as they're safe

[derxa]

Sure, they learned the skills to actually help as they grew older but there’s no way those little ones were performing some vital function during the animal feeding. I used to trail after my dad from a very young age 'helping' and I did it because I enjoyed it. There were only two of us and mum was a full time farmer's wife.

[MrsPelligrinoPetrichor]

Don't most children trail around after parents/grandparents helping out,I was the same as you derxa not on a farm but we had land and lots of potential dangerous equipment around and we just helped out.

[Sistercharlie]

What a horrible thread. The children are lovely and are having a fantastic upbringing!

The comment about having to leave the baby in the hospital for short periods is explained in detail in the book - so pretty low to pick on her for that - she did have to balance the needs of the entire family.

And why should Amanda just confine herself to overalls if she doesn't want to?

Criticise a person for confining her children to the farm and not giving them enough holidays and experiences elsewhere. Then criticise her for having the temerity for being "in front of a camera" writing books and going on telly that will bring her the money to do those things! You can't win with some people.