DOCTOR WHO Xmas special - the Snowmen!

[SevenSnapespearesSwimming]

How many days until who-mas? Very excited!

The snowmen look creepy, Clara looks clever and kind of like someone we've already met (yeah, write your way out of that one Moffat!) Madame vastra! Jenny! A doctor who is so tired of losing his friends... And something in the snow.

[SevenSnapespearesSwimming]

yoga, yes...this is very post-ponds. 300 years or so I believe I read. The doctor is generally moving forwards in his own timeline. River in his timeline is now out of stormcage & is now a professor, so the library is imminent...but it's already happened as a fixed point...but fixed points can be re-written these days.

virtually he's stalking us. He just can't get closure.

[Yogagirl17]

"But he hasn't met River yet in terms of falling for yet etc. so one last fling (or even several should be ok I think. This timeywhimey stuff is so confusing."

Hang on. I know I don't know the ins and outs of DW as well as some but I've read an awful lot of sci fi over the years so I do get the timey whimy stuff (or at least I think I do). Surely all the stuff we've seen between the doctor and river has already happened for MS' Dr too because we always see the Dr moving forward in his own timeline...?

[SevenSnapespearesSwimming]

River will be back. She'll be about for ages. As clever as Clara is, she's no River.

[fancyanother]

Now I've slept on it ( yes, my real life is THAT dull) I think River is dead. On the Series 6 DVD's, he takes her to wherever she was going to take her, I cant remember from the old TARDIS. They keep talking about 'The Ponds' which could include River. I think they have got rid of the whole Pond family. It could also explain why he is so devastated. He has lost his entire new family, his wife soon after Amy and Rory. (Of course, he doesnt know about his daughter, Clara

[CaseyShraeger]

I really enjoyed the characterisation, the dialogue, the sly references and the look of the thing. I thought the story was complete bobbins, though. And I didn't see the need for more kissing (although maybe it was put in just to toy with the fan theories that Clara is the Doctor's daughter/granddaughter/second cousin).

fancy, I think SM said that the whole "Doctor is retired and has given up on taking an interest in human affairs" plot strand was from an unfilmed Douglas Adams script/outline, yes.

[Xales]

I do think the doctor is that cruel.

Look at how he was in the girl in the mirror towards Rose. Just dropped her like a hot potato.

[EggRules]

I'm not sure that MS is her doc.
Plenty of fling time.

[ClaraOswinOswald]

But he hasn't met River yet in terms of falling for yet etc. so one last fling (or even several should be ok I think. This timeywhimey stuff is so confusing.

[fancyanother]

I'm annoyed about River too. Whether they are really married or not, she did time for him and believed she is married to him. To completely forget about her when a bit of skirt appears is just cruel, which I dont think the Doctor is really.

[fancyanother]

That's right. It is a good episode. I hadn't realised it was written by Douglas Adams. Wasn't the concept for the Snowman also a Douglas Adams one? Maybe thats not what the Clara thing is then.. hmm... back to the drawing board...

[SevenSnapespearesSwimming]

Sorry, susan - doctors grand daughter.

[Yogagirl17]

erm....who's Susan?

[RustyBear]

Fancyanother - I think you're thinking of City of Death (because I was thinking of that one earlier). In that one, an alien's spaceship lands on Earth before Life begins. It explodes, and the explosion kickstarts the chemical reactions that start Life. It also splits the alien Jagaroth pilot into twelve identical pieces that are scattered through time. The pieces can communicate telepathically and they use their technical knowledge to advance human technology so that the piece in the 20th century can create a time machine to get back to his spaceship and prevent the explosion. The Doctor becomes aware of his time experiments and finds the 20th century piece of the Jagaroth in Paris and stops him preventing the explosion.

In that story, the Jagaroth were not in human form, they wore a human mask and skin, so each 'piece' looked identical - underneath they looked more like a nest of worms with a couple of eyeballs.

It's a vey good story - written by Douglas Adams and has a cameo appearance from John Cleese and Eleanor Bron as a couple of art experts.

[SevenSnapespearesSwimming]

I wonder if Susan escaped the time war?

[fancyanother]

I can't quite remember the hows or why's, but in an old Tom Baker episode, there is some sort of machine that scatters one of the villains through time, so he is living lots of lives in different times simultaneously. I wonder if that is what has happened with Clara for some reason?

I like to think she is his daughter. It seems a bit stupid that he is the last timelord, that the universe needs him to save itself millions of times, but he has not taken the opportunity of being married to a synthetic timelord to pop out a spare timelord in the event of his death.

[InLoveWithDavidTennant]

jack knows he comes back to life and is always the same person when he does

clara, it seems, doesnt know she comes back as the same person, and is just living each life (as you do).

i cant wait to find out more. i hope im not disappointed. she intrigues me

[EggRules]

Jenni and Capt Jack die and are revived almost instantly in the same body. Clara lives a life and dies at the end of an adventures with the Doctor. It seemed to suggest she was buried and that her body disintegrates. It could be that her old body dies and a clone starts somewhere else. I don't know if she is reincarnated as a baby or if she lives up until she meets the Doctor. There seems to be a part of her that remembers him and has a greater understanding of the unfolding events.

[KayHarker]

Captain Jack was made immortal by Rose when she was a goddess inhabited by the TARDIS.

Clara/Oswin appears to be reincarnated in different generations but looking the same.

As far as we know just yet.

[Yogagirl17]

Umm....I don't understand the difference Egg? (How the heck did I ever manage to follow six seasons of Lost?!)

[EggRules]

The difference between Jenni and Capt Jack is that they revive in the same body; Clara has died twice and has been reborn into duplicate incarnations.

[Yogagirl17]

Could she be like Captain Jack? He could time travel and he couldn't die either, right?

[SevenSnapespearesSwimming]

Grenades!!!

Aah, maybe Clara is a partridge the plot worsens thickens! :)

[RustyBear]

Waves back to Snape. Actually I've been on this thread since the first day - I was just disguised as a partridge.....