Child self harming when told off

[Mamofthree051227]

Hi all
Sorry long thread.

I literally do not know how to handle my 12 year old DD anymore. She is lovely girl except when it comes to being told off at which point her behaviour totally changes.

So from approx age 9 she has suffered with anxiety. Not really over anything specific but day to day worries, friendship problems, find things hard at school but nothing significantly large. At the time she started seeing the school counsellor and whilst he validated her feelings, he never gave her tools to cope with them. She has always had friends and wasn’t bullied, at school we always told her to do her best but never put undue pressure on her to be top of the class so I was never quite sure where these anxieties came from. I consider us to have a nice life, mam, dad and 2 siblings at home. Attentive grandparents. She is loved, there is no financial issue at home. She does any club she wants to, currently cheer, dance and swimming but we don’t force her into activities and there are plenty she has been to and give up in the past.

She stared senior school and at first everything seemed fine. She made some new friends and settled in ok. One day I got a call from the school to say she had confessed to self harming. She had been cutting herself with pencil sharpener blade. When we spoke she couldn’t articulate why she did it only that “her mental health was bad” and she still felt anxious. We engaged with NHS health services and were put on the waiting list.

A few weeks later we caught her vaping, we expressed how disappointed we were, she was told off, grounded and sent to bed. That night she took a paracetamol overdose. She confessed the next morning and we spent the following 2 days in hospital whilst she received the antidote. When we searched her phone we found videos from tik tok detailing suicide, self harm and anorexia. We limited her phone for social media and banned TikTok. We explained the reasons and she seemed to understand. Given the NHS waiting list we engaged a private counsellor whom she has seen every 1-2 weeks for the last 6 months. She says she likes her and can talk to her and continues to want to go and see her as she says it helps.

However, she had constantly tried to override her phone settings to install apps she’s not allowed. I understand this to a degree as she wants to be like her friends but given the content she was accessing we cannot take the risk. We have discussed this again and again as to the reasons and explained it’s not forever but currently she’s vulnerable she cannot have access to social media. The other day she managed to install some apps and had her phone taken away for a short period of time. I have since discovered she self harmed again due to this.

She is also currently constantly pushing the boundaries, not coming home when we said she needed to be in, going places she’s not allowed. Again we have explained the reasons for this, to keep her safe and actually she’s only 12. I am in constant fear as to how to discipline her behaviour as she goes on to self harm. She is completely oblivious to the impact her suicide attempt had on the family believing her mental health only affects her.

We are being very careful when telling her off with wording, no shouting and explaining all the reasons why she isn’t allowed to do this and that but she still feel completely hard done to.

The thing that has broken me is that I have checked her phone tonight and found she has googled “are my parents mentally abusive”. I am at a complete loss of what to do now. How do we discipline her for normal teenage pushing boundaries without her hurting herself? I know it’s normal to feel the worlds against you as a teen but this seems extreme. I am following up tellings off with this doesn’t mean we don’t love you and if you feel you want to self harm please talk to me. We have always tried to approach the self harm without judgement. The school are also supportive and know her history.

We have a good relationship normally. Spend time together, talk, laugh, she goes out with her friends, has sleepovers, we are not overly strict in my opinion. There is no indication anyone has ever harmed her or she is frightened of anyone. I am at a complete loss of how to deal with this. Sorry it all quite heavy but any advice?

[ButternutSoup]

Sorry OP, it sounds hard. I was just like this at your daughter's age. Turns out it was untreated ADHD causing the problems. But I was only diagnosed in my 30s, and life was a bad struggle up until then. I smoked, drank alcoholically and ended up using drugs. Went to rehab, then found a good psychiatrist who diagnosed my ADHD, put me on meds, and my life has improved drastically.

I wish I'd been able to start treatment earlier, would have spared me and my family a lot of suffering.

[Mummykittykat]

This sounds very tough and stressful. I read it as you are doing everything you can to support her and keep her safe. Are you able to talk openly with her about self harm? I think maybe being able to chat with her about how she copes with stress including telling off. Maybe something like a self harm safety kit might help?

I think stay firm on the boundaries as ultimately this is what will keep her safe and is needed to stop her feeling out of control. I think it will take a lot of reinforcement but you will get there.

I also wouldn’t discount how much for teenage girls self harm can be seen as “fashionable” and you may well find a lot of friends are involved in this too. I think this creates a difficult cycle. I think this is where positive role models important too.

[babyproblems]

Gosh this sounds so tough op. I have no related experience really but wanted to say you sound like a brilliant parent and handling this as best as anyone could. I cannot think of anything you could have done differently from what you’ve said.
I think 12 is very young still and I would be trying to fill her time with as much structure as possible to leave as little time as possible for anything else. Social media isn’t really social if they are just looking at damaging cideos on TikTok.. it’s dangerous and not a healthy thing for children to have (or adults to be honest) and I would probably be taking her phone completely aswell as she has shown she can’t be trusted with it. Very difficult given the consequences you fear though. What about doing things together just the two of you. I know at 12/13 I was desperate to cultivate a relationship with my mum although i definitely didn’t show it!!! Really that was what I wanted, to do girly things together and just be close but my behaviour as a teen was the opposite of what I really ‘wanted’ if that makes sense. I think if I were you I would be pushing a close relationship to the absolute best I could. Whatever that took is what I would do. Wishing you the very best of luck xx

[MaverickSnoopy]

I am going through the exact same thing with my 12yo dd and could have written your post verbatim. Interestingly she's been put on the pill for her periods and it's simultaneously reduced her suicidal feelings. The pill helping hormones can be linked to helping people who have adhd. We're currently pursuing a diagnosis for adhd and rejection sensitivity dysphoria. CAMHS have also suggested autism. She's on their waiting list, but there's still a long way to go. We're just at the start of getting Early Help and have been speaking to various professionals due to self-harm.

It's awful. I am utterly broken by it, exhausted and living in a constant state of anxiety myself! Feel free to pm me.

[Happyinarcon]

Schools are toxic unsafe environments at the moment. They are immensely stressful places for kids to be in ways that they can’t really explain because they assume it’s normal. Your daughter is feeling traumatised and powerless and has nowhere else to express her emotions but on herself. I would take her out of school for a couple of terms and do online schooling and see if she moves into a better headspace.

[Flyhigher]

12 to 16 is bloody hard.
Any restriction is viewed badly. Does she exercise? Can you get her addicted to that instead?

[5YearsLeft]

OP, I also wanted to mention ADHD. It looks SO much different in girls than what so many people expect, and rejection sensitivity dysphoria can be a HUGE part of ADHD, depending on where your teen is mentally and current hormone levels and more, and it may always play some part in their ADHD. I think it might help you to read a bit about it? My best friend was so much like @ButternutSoup - maybe not the exact same path, but suffered terribly from trying to self-medicate in other ways, only got diagnosed in his 30s, and now it’s making a world of difference. But it’s hard for me to believe, looking at the situation, that his parents didn’t realize he had rejection sensitivity dysphoria. There is just no such thing as constructive criticism for him; his brain and his emotions, his “heart,” can’t take it. He’d be so afraid of doing poorly at school that he wouldn’t pick up his papers to see the grades he got on them.

Here’s an article from “Additude” (a magazine dedicated to ADD and ADHD) from the point of view of a teen with ADHD dealing with rejection sensitivity dysphoria:
https://www.additudemag.com/how-to-deal-with-rejection-teens-adhd-rsd/amp/

And here’s a resource from them for understanding rejection sensitivity dysphoria: https://www.additudemag.com/download/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-treatment-symptoms/

[DarkChocHolic]

@MaverickSnoopy
Agree about the fluctuating hormones and rejection sensitivity.
Can I ask if your daughter is on combined pill or mini pill?

OP,
My daughter was fine until 16 until everything went sideways. She felt low for a while and then we had counselling etc.
She also had Disordered eating
She couldn't cope with GCSE and didn't too as she hoped. She was never top sets but she was doing above average.
Post GCSE stresses she continued to spiral and then took overdoses and w3 ended up with camhs.
She is now diagnosed as having ADD and started medication and also am antidepressant.
Medication is still not 100 percent and we are struggling with moods big time.
We may also put on her on the pill as her mood tanks significantly week before periods to the point of suicidal thoughts.
It's worth having a chat with her Gp, tracking her mood and triggers and generally keeping things calm and stress free whilst you figure this out.
I would suggest you get help before she hits the higher classes as girls put pressure on themselves.

Xx

[Grumpynan]

I’m so sorry to hear you’re going through this, in some ways it makes me feel better knowing another mum is out there google through the same.

my DD started SH at about 12/13 and I just didn’t see it ! Not until she was nearly 15 !. At first it was just small cuts with a blade from a pencil sharpener ( be aware they superglue this cut to heal so another sign to watch for ) by the time she was 18 the cuts needed stitches. She wasn’t on the pill, but was bullied at school, we got her away from school and into to college for a new start, but it got worst.

she has grown into a beautiful person, so lovely and caring, but so damaged. Her body is just a mess so many many scars, arms/legs/body only her face is unmarked.

18 months ago she tried to hang herself, a member of public managed to stop her, she was sectioned for 7 months, and went from bad to worst, it was a hell of a time but we got through it. She has been finally, finally after many years of banging desks, been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and ocd. The meds help her, she’s stable as she will ever be, she’s 25 now and home with us, works part time, and has a puppy. I live every day knowing she could snap, she might not come home every day she leaves the house, she promises me she wouldn’t do that the me again, but she’s ill, I know that she can’t help it.

sooooo after that long winded back story. By advise. It’s not easy, you need to get her help, mental health support in this country is so bad, I could tell you stories that would make you ashamed of our NHS, but that not for now.

think about home schooling if that’s possible, learn the signs, teach her ways to control the impulse the need to harm. 2 things that are helping my daughter is her new love to climb, she will suddenly come into the room and say “ I’m climbing” I drop everything and take her it’s the need to clear her mind, to think about the next hand hold, then the feeling of letting go at the top to get down again ( I don’t understand it, to close to jumping she tried, and I’m scared of heights ) secondly is her puppy, the best medicine ever !

you really really need to monitor her internet, you need to watch and learn her body language, see if there’s a pattern to when she needs extra support, my DD is when she ovulates she’s at her worst. Keep her busy, keep her to busy to google, to busy to be alone long enough to build up to harming.

we recently moved to a bungalow and my DD has said that’s the best thing ever. Before her room was upstairs and she could shut herself away from the family, here she’s next to the kitchen and living room, my bedroom is just across from hers, we keep doors open at all times so she can hear us and she’s never alone with her thoughts, that voice in her head that says she’s not good enough.

it sounds like she’s pushing you away, and the home is becoming a battleground, I know she’s at that age, it’s not easy, but try and rebuild that relationship, stop punishing her for her actions and tell her you want to try and understand why, ask her why all the time, spend as much time with her as you can and build that trust.

just over 2 weeks ago my DD came into my room and put a blade in my hand and asked me to just talk, she needs to know she can do that with you, that you wouldn’t shout and scream but just put the blade to one side and discuss the apprentice or should we send out for dinner.

ive added some posters for you, they were given to her at the hospital and we use them all the time.

oh and one last thing that helps her, we bought an electronic drum kit, worth every penny, you can really beat out the stress on that

and trust me, you are not alone in this, ask your gp for support groups to help and guide you through this

[Octavia64]

You need to stop telling her off. As you have seen if you tell her off she will self harm so you need to stop doing it.

There are alternative approaches that work better for teens with anxiety/mental health problems.

I apologise for how bluntly I am saying this, but if your daughter is so anxious that she responds in this way, and if she has contemplated suicide then she is in the depths of such a mental health crisis that complaining about the effects of her actions on other members of the family will only make things worse,

Shaming her will not help.

You need to get professional advice on how to deal with this as standard parenting will make this situation significantly worse.

I would also echo previous posters who have said look into adhd.

[Octavia64]

Actual advice, sorry

(I have a DD who was very similar and is now diagnosed with adhd)

She doesn't think you are on her side. She thinks you hate her. She thinks she is a failure.

She is self harming and vaping etc etc because she knows she is a failure and every time you tell her off it reinforces that belief.

You need to work on that first.

Sit down and say to her something along the lines of

We love you. We can see you are finding things difficult. We want to make your life better. How can we help you?

Speak to your GP. If she has taken an overdose then a referral to CAMHS may be successful, failing that, you need family therapy as you need to be guided by a therapist in how to support her.

You may be able to get her to agree that when she is thinking of self harming she will come to you and you will help and reassure her, but you might need to build a relationship with her first as she clearly doesn't trust you at the moment.

You are too late with banning social media. She is in severe mental health crisis and social media is not going to make a significant difference. If she uses her phone to help her calm down and reduce anxiety then taking it off her may make her more likely to self harm or attempt,

Find out what if anything she enjoys doing. Do it.

[MaverickSnoopy]

@DarkChocHolic she was first put on the combined pill and we noticed a huge change in her mood, about a 50% improvement and certainly less anger towards us. Then she got headaches and the GP switched her to the mini pill. About 5 weeks in, she slashed her arms so the GP switched her back. After about 2 weeks her mood settled again although not quite as much as the 50%. She still talks about self harming, that she wants to die and is worthless etc but she is calmer. The GP warned that once you start switching, they might not do what they did previously. As I understand it the combined pill is supposed to be better for those with adhd but it's not a one size fits all.

As a pp said, when my daughter vapes she says it's because she wants to punish herself and to get cancer. I haven't pushed her on it as we have got a very open relationship and she tells me everything. I don't want her to stop telling me things. Equally she knows what I think of it and if it continues we'll have to think about how to deal with it.

[EvenStillIWantTo]

Sounds exactly like my DD a year ago. CAMHS were entirely useless so we had to go to a private clinic where she was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD.

[Soontobe60]

I went to an all girls academic grammar school in the 70s. Id say that in my friendship group, most of the girls self harmed. It was almost a rite of passage. We knew our parents and teachers would go easy on us if they saw the injuries. We would use blades out of sharpeners and compasses to scratch ourselves with, give ourselves bruises on our arms or legs, and claim to have taken overdoses when in reality we would take one paracetamol and throw the rest away. Several girls also had eating disorders.
Social anxiety is a real issue with teens, and wanting to fit in is important. Nowadays, teens are bombarded with social media - its influence shouldn’t be dismissed! Messages that are spread via apps like TicToc are self fulfilling.
I have 2 daughters and I found their teen years really tough. I was constantly on pins worrying about them. One thing I did do, however, is have some non negotiable. For instance, I did not allow them to hang around the streets at night with their friends, or stay out past a certain time. They thought I was the worst mum in the world!
Most teens are quite manipulative, consciously or otherwise, often telling their parents that all their friends are allowed to do X, Y and Z so why cant they. What’s important is to have your boundaries and to stand your ground. The adults have to remain in charge. You have acknowledged your DD has some issues and have sought support for her. The tricky thing is to stick to these even if you think she might harm herself if you don’t ’give in’. You will all come out the other side of teen years eventually.