Is this fair?

[Beezles]

I find it hard to know when I am being fair, too soft or overly strict so I need help with this.

DD 18 was due to come away on 3-generation annual family holiday this Sat, and leave early to go to festival. She had made done grumbles but agreed that if she left on Tues she would go. She adores her granny (who has just bought her an expensive cat suit for the festival) and these are nice holidays. I have arranged mid hol lifts for her to and from the station and other arrangements took her into account (bedrooms, food).

She works 4 hours a week but hasn't saved enough for festival food and transport. For this and last festival I let her earn it by doing jobs I needed done.

She's just told he she's justt coming, 3 days notice. I an furious and said I won't be giving her jobs do she can sort out het own cash. Am I being unfair/ overreacting ? She is both kind and sensible but also blubdingky selfish at times....

[bigTillyMint]

Peebles, that's exactly what my DD got - a hollow victory. Definitely a learning moment

OP what's the update?

[Peebles1]

Ooh I've just re-read your OP and realised you went yesterday! Doh - sorry! Did she come?

[Peebles1]

Sympathies Beezles. I have an 18 year old DD. Could you try this?

'Look, I know the hol will probably be a bit boring for you, and it's a bit of a duty thing. But the thing is, if you don't go, you'll probably be sitting at home feeling guilty for those four days. I know, coz I've been there. You don't want to do it, you feel really pissed off about it, you put your foot down, you get your own way. Then actually the victory is pretty hollow and it would've been easier to just go. It's only four days, we all have to do family duty things sometimes, and it'll probably be quite nice, some chill time for you. But I completely understand if you don't want to.'

That's the angle I'd take with mine. And I think it's all true, and as a PP said - she may well regret not going.

Try not to take it personally though, you've got enough going on

[Beezles]

Hi Mooingcow - yes, this is normally the tack I would take with her. I try to respect her decisions even if I don't like them and generally let her get on with her life and I take her anxieties seriously (having had to negotiate those through A levels and advocating for her with teachers). But this one felt different. It just felt like the final straw of inconsiderateness. She will have pissed off her Granny, I'm angry, and we've made plans around her that will be changed (OK, it will be easier, but we still arranged food for her, I got a catsitter that I could have saved on if my DD is going to be here, asked favours for lifts etc). And now I am the worst bitch ever for not letting her earn her festival money. I think the trouble is, I've fallen into a trap of trying to please my kids and help them avoid discomfort and unhappiness or friction in life, and now its coming back to bite me. I find it really hard to tolerate the discord, which is probably not great for parenting teenage twins!!

[Mooingcow]

My sympathies.

I have to say your holiday sounds idyllic though at 18 I would have disagreed.

I'm going against the grain here, but I honestly don't think it's worth everyone getting stressed about it.

I'd sit her down when she gets in and ask her to just run her alternative plans past you. Say you were surprised that she said she wasn't coming because you clearly had the wrong end of the stick.

If she feels you're taking her seriously and treating her like an adult, she might be more reasonable.

I'd also tell her what a special time you just had in France and that you love her company. It doesn't sound like you'd get much 1-1 on your holiday.

At 18, I'm sure she feels all sorts of pressures we would dismiss but they're real to her and if her festival will be more enjoyable with time at home to prepare, then why not?

You can all have a relaxed time without dashing about getting her home again and maybe make plans to have time together afterwards to hear about it and catch up.

[fastdaytears]

You have raised a teenager! Give her a bit of time to calm down. They're supposed to be self absorbed. You've done nothing wrong.

[Beezles]

Well, she says she is not coming, and she doesn't see why she has to phone Granny to let her know as 'Granny won't mind and you're just guilt-tripping me'. I am guessing she plans to borrow the money from a friend for the festival food and travel. She's gone out, slamming the door.

I am now wondering whether I am a complete crap parent to raise such a selfish, self-absorbed daughter. We had such a nice few days together last week on the ferry to France and hanging out, but this is just awful :-(

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. I really appreciate the thoughtful replies.

[SparklesandBangs]

OP I get you, I have 2 DDs, one at Uni and one in sixth form and this year I wanted to book a family holiday for all of us, over the years we've had some fantastic holidays to exotic locations and the choice was open to them (this is not bragging I'm just trying to explain). In the end after many discussions and strops we are going short haul to a European city for 4 days then DD1 is coming home and the rest of us are going to lie flat out on a beach for 5 days before coming back. DD1 is still saying she may not come (as DH has already bought her 2 flights home I think she will be).

DD2 is going to a festival, but has found so temporary summer work to pay for this.

There is also a 3 generation holiday in this family DD1 has only been once as it's all beach and she doesn't like the beach. DD2 went for the weekend only this year, but she did go both ways by train (on her own).

[Stevefromstevenage]

Sorry I reread that Mammouth it was meant jokey but probably reads a bit sarky.

[Stevefromstevenage]

Mammouth I think most people realise that their views are necessarily not the same as others. As it happens I still have great family holidays with extended family annually but I had better stop prattling on now before leaping into another anecdote . 18 though as Beezles says is a tricky age for wanting to partake.

Beezles Best of luck. I think/hope she will come around because she knows you want this for the right reasons.

[MammouthTask]

Steve I wasn't shooting you down. Just pointing out that peole have different experiences to you. This is just my way of looking at family hols, you are more than welcome to look at them in a different way....

Beezles the thing is you are allowed to be very emotional atm and you have some very good reasons for that!
Transitions are always hard to manage.
I also believe that, at 18yo, she is old enough to be told to make an effort for her mum. I'm asking that from my own dcs that are younger. Due to ill health, there are things I cannot do anymore. It is expected from them that they will adjust to what I can do just as much as I am adjusting to them. It's quite normal IMO.
This holiday is important FOR YOU, for lots of different reasons. It's important for you that she is there. And yes I would expect her to make an effort. It's not you being too soft, emotional or whatever. It's you asking ONE favour from your dd in very particular circumstances (that are not the usual 'it's the last holidays as we knew it' type of feeling or rather not just that).

[Beezles]

OK, so the backstory is that we - the extended family of granny, her husband, sister, husband, their kids, me and my kids - have been to same cottage for the last 18 years of the kids lives. It is just a complete chill out, great food, seaside, few pub meals out... She gets on well with her cousins and all others, especially her granny, but I can see it was likely to be not so appealing for her any more. She didn't really want to come this year, but I was keen for her to come (possibly last time for all sorts of reasons) so we came to a compromise that she would just come for 4 days, with lifts arranged to and from station and plenty of time for her to get ready for the festival. Festival money chores were not contingent on coming on holiday, but just a helper.

Yes, she is still very much in the in-between stage of 'treat me like an adult, but let me still be a child sometimes'. She does expect to be bailed out too much and I haven't got that right yet...I am very much aware of this transition stage and don't get it right a lot of the time - Steve, have you been through this bit? It isn't easy to get the balance right between supporting them and helping them fly the nest. But she has masses of freedom to run her life, her friends are welcome here, we get on OK and talk about things, and I don't think she does too badly. I do take on too much of her stuff for her and am learning not to, hence the difficulty with this situation. I am aware that I am very emotional at the moment and my judgement is off so really appreciate outside views and advice.

[Stevefromstevenage]

Cheers Mammouth but I think my point was more that 18 year olds should be allowed to plan their own holiday without too much interference from their parents. The anecdote probably could have been left out but hey shoot me I like an anecdote.

[rollonthesummer]

How is she planning to get to the festival?
How is she planning to eat for the time you are away?
Is she going to explain to the family members she has let down
Will you still give her money?

I think she's behaving unreasonably.

If she's too stressed and ill to come with you then she shouldn't be going to a festival.

[MammouthTask]

Or she felt she ought to go and now she has sort of found her courage to say NO.
There might be some pretty good reasons for her to feel like she ought t spend that holiday with her family though.
In that situation, I would have wanted to because I would have wanted to spend one nice holiday with all my family around (my gran, my mum, my Dbro) which, quite possibly, isn't going to happen again :(
I'm wondering how much the OP's dd would regret it if she isn't going and this was the last hols with her mum (Sorry OP, I appreciate this is probably a very sensitive subject for you)

[MammouthTask]

Steve you have to be careful though. It's not because YOU hated it that the OP's dd will (or your dcs fwiw).

I went away on hols with my parents at that age and still do. I also went away on hols with my gran when she could still travel etc... And so did my cousin (they went to the USA, my gran would never have gone there on her own).
For me, going on hols with family is spending nice family time with these yu are close to. So saying 'no way I can ever do that' is similar to say 'I can't possibly ever spend a week at my parents again because we have so little in common'.

TBH, if you have organised lifts etc.. For her to go the festival and she isn't anymore, I would expect her to ring all the people that were supposed to do her a favour and tell them she can't be bothered. And then let her organise all the lifts to go to the festival from home.
And from now on, I would also let her organise her social life. If she needs money, she'll have to work for it/save. She needs a lift, she needs to organise it etc...
At it looks like you are still doing a lot for her, as if she was a child, when she is screaming to be treated like an adult. That's fine IMO. She is 18yo. But she needs to do all the bits that go with being an adult. Not just the ones she fancies.

[Stevefromstevenage]

Yes 18 is old enough not to come but 18 is old enough not to agree to come with us ( plus lifts arranged to get her home for festival)


To be fair Beezles that is not how she presents it, according to your more recent posts. From her perspective there appears to be at worst a certain amount of coercion involved and at best a miscommunication.

[Beezles]

Thank you. Yes 18 is old enough not to come but 18 is old enough not to agree to come with us ( plus lifts arranged to get her home for festival) and then pull out 3 days before leaving. Savoy, the jobs were my non personal paperwork IT stuff, so non essential but useful.

Thanks folks for your advice. I really appreciate your experience and sane thoughts!

[SavoyCabbage]

I'd still give her the money for the jobs if she does the jobs and if they are actual jobs. Like clearing the garage or painting the downstairs toilet. But not if they were just jobs I had thought of to facilitate her going to the festival. Because that's what you do for children and not adults.

[mummytime]

With my DD I try hard not to argue. So would ignore it, apart from maybe asking if she needs a lemsip or sick bucket or early night (as she is ill).
Then tomorrow I would discuss our arrangements for going, what time we need to leave etc. as if she was coming. If she sill insists she isn't especially if it is because she is ill I would ask if she is going to stay with a friend (as its not good for her to be home alone if sick), and discuss how we could help her cope with the journey etc. Discuss if we need to call the doctor and discuss if she should go to the festival if I'll etc.

[Stevefromstevenage]

Find her plans= find her plans

[Stevefromstevenage]

To be honest I don't think she is being unreasonable at all except maybe needing you to find her plans. My last family holiday was at 17 now in fairness I have 3 older siblings so my mother was no quite seeing this holiday as the end of beautiful family time but rather ensuring her house was not trashed It was frankly awful. I hated every second because I had nothing really in common with my parents at that age. I would not make my daughter holiday with me at 18. Great if she wanted too but it sounds like you presented it as a fait accompli to her.

[mummytime]

With my DD I try hard not to argue. So would ignore it, apart from maybe asking if she needs a lemsip or sick bucket or early night (as she is ill).
Then tomorrow I would discuss our arrangements for going, what time we need to leave etc. as if she was coming. If she sill insists she isn't especially if it is because she is ill I would ask if she is going to stay with a friend (as its not good for her to be home alone if sick), and discuss how we could help her cope with the journey etc. Discuss if we need to call the doctor and discuss if she should go to the festival if I'll etc.

[Dozer]

V sorry you're ill.

Your DD is not behaving kindly or like an adult: she has cost you money and let you, her sibling and her grandmother etc down. I would tell her this, remind her of the circumstances, and would not accept any "I had no choice" bollocks: if she had no choice why does she now feel able to pull out at the last minute? She's being out of order.

I suffer from travel and other anxiety; it's not an excuse to treat others badly.

You would be being too soft to pay her for tasks to subsidise her festival trip IMO.

[rollonthesummer]

Does she realise that you giving her the spending money was on condition of going these jobs?

Is she still expecting the money?