14yo DS 'accidentally' spent £600 on itunes and now acting the victim

[Bucks48]

We just got our cc bill and the biggest shock! DS has had phone for almost 2 months and not used to his own itunes account. Just found he has spent £600 on in app purchases etc. He claims he thought he was using itunes cards and I sort of believe him + I've read elsewhere how easily this happens. We're trying to get Apple to take some responsibility but the point is that ds is acting as if he's being punished when he just made a mistake. Actually we haven't hit the roof but it's clearly not a small issue. Phone is confiscated and that is causing the victim behaviour. I am peacemaker between dad and DS - any advice on how to get DS to step up and accept that s**t happens and must take responsibility?

[furrylittlecreatures]

I think it comes from a lot of negative publicity about companies not making it clear to children they are having to pay for things. So appeals are upheld. I was just glad we got ours cleared and they were really nice about it. My Ds was 5 when he did it.

[HeadDreamer]

I can't see why Apple is responsible either. This is not a 4 year old like many says. A 14 yo knows what's the price of things he buys. He needs to learn the value of things now.

And definitely you can set up iTunes without a CC. My dad doesn't link them as he's deeply paranoid. He's 70.

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

This is very common and happens at lot, a quick Google will show you how easy it is to do and how many times it's happened, loads on forums about it.

My friend's boy did it (£400) and they appealed and it was written off.

[ATravellingCircusCame]

My guess would be good customer service.

'I'm sorry Madam, you are clearly a fuckwit' may be true, but not the best customer service in the world is it?

I don't think it's that hard to understand really.

[Floggingmolly]

Why would the phone company reduce the debt? Surely this just encourages fuckwits to take no responsibility for the hardware they give their children?

[furrylittlecreatures]

I don't really see that playing the blame game is helpful. This kind of thing happens to lots of people. My friends son ran up a mobile bill of £1000! My youngest dc got hold of his brothers iPad and ran up around £200 on a game. Apple were brilliant but I had to go through a lot with them with what happened. Eg he had sneaked it out of his brothers room without us knowing. They refunded the money and the phone company reduced my friends mobile debt too so I would def say keep trying with Apple. As for him accepting responsibility I would wait till he is around 30 for that one!!!!

[throwingpebbles]

I think the majority of the fault lay with you to be honest. Surely there have been enough stories in the press that you would have put some protections in place?

[uggmum]

Apple have now introduced a parental authorisation process on all iTunes purchases and this includes in app purchases.
You receive a text/message to authorise every purchase they make. This was brought in to cut down of this type of stuff.

I have it for both my dc and would recommend that you do too. It is easy to set up.

[Reasonsnottobeanidiot]

Just to say I don't agree that your son knew he was spending £600, no kid would do that on purpose knowing they'd be found out, it probably was a mix of recklessness and an accident

[Preminstreltension]

I'm sorry but it's incredibly simple. An ipad/phone is wasted on someone whose technological capabilities are that limited, tbh

I really disagree with this. My mum wouldn't know how to do it and she has an ipad and is perfectly intelligent. She's just not schooled in how these things work. This is a new risk that didn't exist in the world ten years ago, so it's no surprise that the entire world is not immediately au fait with how to close down that risk.

I've also just had a new iphone and where the "in app purchases" thing is listed has moved from where it used to be. If I tried to find it now it would take me a few minutes as I know where it used to be and not where it is now. I work at a computer all day so although am technologically quite unskilled, I have a rough idea of what I'm doing. But millions of people do not.

In any case, that's not how consumer protection works. Consumer products need to work for everyone, not just those who have sufficient technological capabilities to "merit" an ipad. Of course a 14 yo boy probably does have a pretty good idea of the technology behind it but no understanding of how credit works so got caught between the two worlds.

I'd guess this stuff will be legislated on shortly just as the mobile phone companies are having to implement credit limits so that consumers don't become liable for open-ended bills run up through thoughtlessness or through theft - not least because in all these cases the bill bears no relation to the cost of the services delivered.

(BTW the ASDA comparison doesn't work - ASDA don't let you walk away with the goods until you've paid. This is credit and credit is differently regulated - rightly because it's easy to get into trouble).

[Bucks48]

I'm going to close this thread for myself at least. So, the upshot for me is that I still need to find a way to reach DS to get him to take moral responsibility (don't worry, he will be taking financial responsibility!), but in case this got lost on the thread:

• emails went to DS 1st ever new email account (which he doesn't access - I just logged on and he had over 1200 emails, 90% of which junk)
  
• This all happened in less than a month so the first we knew was when the cc bill came in
  
• Apple require a card to be attached to a new itunes account (OK we could have realised that we should have removed it once the account was set up)
  
• Apple has actually taken full responsibility for this kind of thing on several occasions as they recognise that a minor (even if a teenager) cannot legally take financial responsibility if the buying decision is made too simple (Google it - it's happened a lot)
  

None of this excuses what has happened and I'm not trying to justify DS's behaviour nor wriggle out of paying up. So, a long period of paying back in order and a lesson learned. Hope this helps some of you to realise how quickly it can happen at least and to check your various account settings....

[PurpleHairAndPearls]

Oh and as everyone says, de link the credit card. Apple also do a "family sharing" thing where I now get the requests for games, apps etc and I have to authorise it before the DC can download them.

[PurpleHairAndPearls]

We had this, a few years ago when it wasn't as well publicised, and DS has SN. It was a huge amount of money to is, I actually cried when I rang Apple but they were very understanding and refunded it.

It has been quite well publicised as an issue since then, and a NT 14 year old is fully responsible and aware of the amount he has spent, IMHO. I would make him pay it back via his voucher and chores/ reduced pocket money to reinforce the lesson.

In case anyone still doesn't know, it's via the "restrictions" in settings, you can disable in app purchases and also request a password for each transaction.

[BumpAndGrind]

I spent too much in ASDA. It wasn't my fault, I didn't realise I had put all that chocolate and booze in my trolley until it was too late, the offers tempted me in with their shinyness. Bastards.

I think ASDA need to take some responsibility, refund me for at least half in any case.

[LeBearPolar]

It's not obvious to most people, certainly not most parents, how to turn off "in ap purchases".

I'm sorry but it's incredibly simple. An ipad/phone is wasted on someone whose technological capabilities are that limited, tbh.

DS doesn't have a credit card linked to his account - we set it up with gift cards so he can only spend what he actually has. Simple.

[enderwoman]

My teen daughter doesn't have a credit card linked to her iTunes account. Sometimes I "gift" her an app that she wants. Not sure if you can do it with an in App purchase but it's convenient for us.

[bodenbiscuit]

I agree with soup dragon,

[Floggingmolly]

But the cardholder voluntarily linked the card to the account; and gave someone else access, LovesYoungDream.
Apple sent emails explaining the activity on the account, which conveniently weren't read.
This one is squarely on op and her son. Doesn't anyone acknowledge personal responsibility anymore? If you don't understand how these things work; you're a bloody fool to be linking your credit card to them.

[RoosterCogburn]

Lovesyoungdream I'm pretty sure that by linking the CC to the account the card holder was giving authorisation.

For what it's worth it is possible to se up an apple account without linking a credit card - you just add money via iTunes cards and then you have a running total of credit which you can see each time you access the app store.

[LovesYoungDream]

I don't know how iTunes work but you could try arguing that

1. your ds is a minor(under 18) and they can't make a legally binding contract with a minor (check terms and conditions). I'm sure it is in the small print at the bottom of the screen on the TV ads.
   
2. You, as the card holder did not authorise the payments and should have been notified of the charges.
   

Failing that, you may need to take the hit but you could try to limit the debt by negotiating with Apple, debt repayment in installments/cap amount owed to a manageable amount to pay back.
As for a suitable consequence for your ds'so actions:
I would cancel ds's Itunes account and make him pay back the debt. It is important to teach him how to be responsible and that his actions have consequences.

[Floggingmolly]

Why did emails regarding use of your credit card go to his email account; which he then conveniently forgot to check? Something not adding up there...
And no, it's not Apple's fault...

[Preminstreltension]

I think this is all a bit harsh tbh. It's not obvious to most people, certainly not most parents, how to turn off "in ap purchases". It's not at the forefront of most people's minds. I think the technology has advanced beyond the consumer protection legislation and the two will be reconfigured at some point.

A teenager wouldn't get a credit card for their own protection but these linked accounts circumvent that protection. Parents can link them for ease and just to get something going and then not realise that a huge door has just been opened. Likewise a credit card has a credit limit on it so that you just can't go on and on spending. In the real world, consumers are not actually allowed complete freedom to run up massive bills that they can't afford to pay - there are restrictions in place which you then have to try quite hard to get around if you really want to. All of that stuff is not in place on the internet yet which is why these problems keep happening.

Out of interest, what was he buying? It's hard to be sensible if you are buying some sort of virtual nonsense which is clearly on one level worth nothing ("virtual nuts for a squirrel game") because in a child or even a teenager's simple mind, a) this is just a game and b) no one would charge me for this thing which is actually clearly valueless.

And what happened to the receipts? Whose email address do they go to?

[Viviennemary]

How was he even able to get access to this £600. But these things happen, I read about a child spending £400 on virtual nuts for a squirrel game. Those companies love to rake in the money and should take responsibility. But parents shouldn't give access to credit cards.

[NerrSnerr]

It was daft of you and your son but this is not Apple's fault. It's your responsibility to pay the £600.