Lies and lack of remorse

[Jinkers01]

Small bit of background...13 year old son is chronically forgetful, but has been trying harder thus school year to be organised. On Monday he told me that he'd been to music lesson at lunch time at school, which he has frequently forgotten before. Lots of praise from me...last night I found out from friend that music teacher is off and that he'd therefore lied. He had apparently gone to play football,and laughed in my face about it. I have banned him from internet and Xbox for ONE day, and he's beyond angry. DH clearly thinks I'm being harsh on his darling boy. I think it's a reasonable punishment, but what do others think?

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

I dont think it is unusual for teenagers to be a bit lazy and disorganised. They are growing (tired) and also getting used to having to take responsibility for themselves (which doesnt always work).

In my opinion (and it is only that as I have only experience of 1 teen boy) chivvy the laziness and disorganisation. Try not to get cross with him.

I found with my DS that my ranting just turned into white noise for him. To start with he needed lots of reminders to do things and get things done. I keep things simple for DS, one thing at a time (more and that white noise comes back). If he forgets (or cant be bothered) then I remind (chivvy) him to do whatever it is.

So long as he owns up to whatever has been forgotten then there is no punishment. The only time we get cross is if he lies.

DS is 15 now and has grown up a lot in the last couple of years. He doesnt seem to lie now. There is no need for it.

[bubby64]

It's a funny situation in this household, I have ID twin DS, who are soon to be 13, and DS1 tends not to lie, and when he does, its so obvious, you just have to challange him and he will give in and tell the truth, even if he knows we won't like it, where as DS2 will barefaced lie through his teeth about anything he thinks may get him into trouble, and, even when caught out in an obvious untruth, will argue that white is black rather than be straight with us. Considering they have both been bought up in exactly the same enviroment, it definatly seems nature rather than nurture is at work.
We have tried all approaches, from punishment for telling the lie, to praise for telling the truth, but tbh, not going ballistic when he does 'fess-up seems to work the best. My dh has AS, and sees things very black and white with no shades of grey, and lying is his real pet hate, so I try to keep him out of things when I am attempting to get the truth out of DS2, because DH always seems to end up ranting, which has exactly the oposite effect to whart I want.

[Palika]

Bubby64 - can you be a bit more specific: you say 'not going ballistic' works better than praise? (Also, did you say you DH has asbergers? That must be a challenge in itself...)

We have made good experiences with not going ballistic when DS14 lies but recently we had noticed that he had cracked the computer password and had told us numerous lies around that for several weeks.

(OMG, mum DID go BALLISTIC!!!) - I was just SOOOO ANGRY. I just could not let it go because I had tried to so hard to help him exactly on that topic he had lied about and he had just lied to me all the time.

[Kleinzeit]

Um… silly question Palika but... why does it matter whether your DS knows the computer password? Is he causing damage or paddling round the kind of websites for which you need brain-bleach afterwards? I don’t know whether my DS has worked out our computer passwords but he’s pretty sensible so I’m not that bothered whether he knows them or not. What has your DS been doing with the password that’s such a problem? Why do you (or why should I) care?

[bubby64]

Palika - When I say that not going ballistic works better than praise, I mean that holding back the angry outburst that I really whant to let loose and going cold, quiet and not interacting with him when we know he has lied works better than praising him for telling the truth after we have had to spend ages trying to weedle out of him.
Yes, having a DH with AS is hard, as he is finding it very difficult to cope with the constantly changing moods and the general poor attitude of the boys at the moment. They are just hiting puberty, the hormones are raging, but he is expecting them to behave like his little boys again

[Palika]

thanks bubby64

Why we have the computer password? Well, simply because the internet is not a safe place. Just like I wouldn't allow DS into the redlight district in Amsterdam at night...or on a building site...or swim in the stormy sea. It's dangerous and we are rather safe than sorry.

I find it quite astonishing that there are parents who would NOT want to protect their growing children from these potential dangers.

Kleinzeit, your DS may be 'sensible' but that does not mean that he can resist porn and violence. There is now a solid body of good scientific research that clearly shows that young boys CANNOT resist these sites when given the chance. And the damage that unmitigated porn and violence has on their growing brains have is massive.

We are the first generation who is bringing up our boys with these dangers in the living room or even in their own bedrooms and many of us, simply do not want to know just how damaging and dangerous this can be. I can only hope that future generations will know better. At the moment we are having a ticking time bomb right in our own homes and really should not be naive about this.

Cracking the password makes me angry simply because it is a breach of trust. We had agreed it together and I want that my son sticks to these agreement just like I want that DH sticks to agreements. It's about learning to be a reliable 'team member' of the family.

Anyway, DS did some digging in the garden to make it up and tries very hard at the moment, so all is well again.

[bubby64]

We have individual profiles on our computer, each with their own password, the boys have parental controls and time restrictions on their profiles, limiting them to sites which I approve. If they do need to go on other sites, which they have needed to on occasion for homework, I or DH log them in to our profile for the time it takes to do the work, but we don't give them our passwords. I am administrator of their account, and so have gradually relaxed some restrictions as they have grown older.

[Kleinzeit]

So flow is quite right – this really is all about control. You want to control your DS’s computer access and he wants to control his own access.

I do have friends with sons the same age as mine or older who have let them have quite a lot of freedom online and oddly enough most of them don’t seem to be hooked on porn or violence. We still have parental controls set but that’s more so that DS doesn’t accidentally trip over stuff he doesn’t want to see (and indeed stuff I would rather he doesn’t know existed until as late on as possible!)

And really I’m only postponing the inevitable – the time when all the Internet will be at his disposal and he will have to deal with it. DS is 15, so that’s within the next 3 years. You talk about protecting your DS the same way I would have talked about protecting mine five years ago. But that was then. Very soon keeping himself safe and limiting computer use is all going to be down to him, not us. So now we try to let him know what the risks are and yes, we try to keep a few barriers in place while as we can but we do have to start letting him make more of his own decisions because very soon the best we can do will be to help; all the decisions will be his to make.

So I somewhat disagree about which of us is being naïve If my DS was already looking for porn (etc) online deliberately and spending huge amounts of time looking at it then I sold take action but I doubt that fighting over passwords would solve anything. So what I mean is, does your DS actually visit these brain-bleach sites or are you just afraid that he will?

[Palika]

Kleinzeit
if your son would visit porn website, do you really think you would know about that?

I have taken a little bit of time to look at the research about the topic and it is quite worrying. I believe the longer you can make sure that your DS is not confronted with that the better, as it is very damaging for a maturing brain.

And yes, having a good password (and not a daft one like us that your DS can guess) will go a long way to protect him.

I am very certain that my DS does NOT look at porn - it is not my main worry at all. I just believe that the internet is not a safe place and when we leave him alone in the house, which we do on a regular basis, he should not go on the internet. I am very confident and comfortable with that decision.

About 'control' - just like Flow you are using the word with a certain undertone as if it is something 'bad' and as if freedom is 'good'. I do not buy into such doctrines - I simply do what works and what feels right to us and our family.

Having said that, when I look at what people post about here on mumsnet, the majority does it because they lost control and becoming desperate.

In our house my DS can have and do practically anything he wants - total freedom apart from health and safety issues AND that he can be trusted and sticks to our agreements. His freedom is not a free passport to lying and cheating.

[flow4]

Pal, what I said (word for word) was
"I do think this is an interesting and thorny subject. If we're honest with ourselves, IMO, often when we get upset or cross about kids telling lies, it's not really about truth, it's about control."

There are no moral judgements in that at all. I don't think control is a 'bad' thing; but you on the other hand most definitely see 'control' as a good, desirable thing and express disapproval when you think a parent isn't exerting it.

In fact, I see control as absolutely essential; but the question is, who exerts it? When we are little, it's mostly our parents; when we're adults, it should be ourselves. Somewhere on the way from childhood to adulthood, we have to learn how to control ourselves. IMO, this should and usually does happen in the teenage years, which is one key reason why those years can feel so difficult. As parents, we have to judge when and how to give more responsibility, try to give our teens control rather than losing it ourselves, and deal with inevitable mistakes - on our part as well as theirs.

It's challenging and uncomfortable, but it still has to be done.

You, palika, seem to have a teenager who's still happy for you to have most of the control. But not every teen is the same, and it is a mistake to think that parents who seem more 'liberal' than you need to 'tighten up' control. That will work with young or relatively immature teens who aren't wanting more control themselves; but with older, feistier or more mature teens who want more independence, parents need to find a way of giving it before it is taken, or (IMO) face really serious problems.

[Palika]

Flow
thumbs up to virtually everything you say!
It is certainly true that not everybody who is more liberal than me need to tighten up more - everybody can do as they wish.

But the same is true for you, isn't it? Not everybody who has problems with their teens need to do what you have done, which I perceive as somehow giving up. And I noticed that you give this advice to many others here. It might have been the only thing that you saw possible but it I do not believe that it is the same for most people.

The authors of Divas and Doorslammers and Parenting the out of control Teenagers certainly make one point loud and clear: Do not give up! There is so much more you can do! And then they go on to outline pages and pages of techniques and approaches to regain control, control, control.

One of the authors is the headmaster of a school for badly behaved teens in London who also counsels a lot of parents. I also saw him on the One-Show, where he made the same point. The other author is a counsellor for out-of-control teens. Who am I to argue with these experts?

After being quite unsure about how to proceed with my own sometimes out-of-control teen I have taken those two authors to heart and find it very very helpful. That is why I am trying to pass on the advice that I have learnt from these books.

So, as I can see I am not just a lone parent on a crusade but try to pass on what I have learnt from experts who do nothing else but helping parents to get their teen back into control.

[cory]

Control can mean so many different things though, can't it, Palika?

Sometimes it means walking in and telling somebody what to do.

Sometimes it means looking after yourself so you don't break down and lose whatever control over life in general you have.

Sometimes ime it means having the nerve to say "no I will not take responsibility for this decision, you are almost an adult, you have to take responsibility". Being able to make this necessary transition in a controlled fashion, without too much rebellion and heartache, is also a kind of control.

I have also talked to a lot of experts (dd's CAHMS team amongst others) and ime the last thing they would do is to try to adopt some kind of one-size-fits-all approach based on ideas of what most families need.

The difference between CAHMS and dd's HT, I found, was that CAHMS had more of a longterm approach: they were thinking in terms of how dd will cope when she is an adult. And they were thinking of longterm impact on the entire family, because unlike schools and boot camps they were used to working with whole families.

Dd's HT was just interested in the relative shortterm: of whether his pupils left his school with good attendance and good marks and were able to cope with the first term of their next institution of education. That was his remit. Not whether they had developed the skills or confidence that would help them to function as adults years after they had left his school. Which is natural enough: he never even found out about what happened after that. So his idea of Successful Measures would have been very different from that of the people who had to live with it for years to come.

I've never met any boot camps managers but I imagine their measure of success would be similarly short term.

As a parent otoh you have to play the long game.

[Kleinzeit]

if your son would visit porn website, do you really think you would know about that?

The way things are, yes I’d notice if he was spending much time obsessing over dodgy sites, though not if he is sneaking an occasional peek. That seems good enough to me. But anyway you say porn’s not the main issue for your DS – so what is the fear? If it’s safety in general, we gradually taught DS how to handle online communication, starting him off when he was 10-ish on a closely moderated games site recommended by one of his friends’ parents. By now he pretty much knows what’s safe behaviour and what isn’t, he can mostly cope alone and asks for help if he needs it. Does your DS not have those skills yet?

As for the bigger question of whether parental “control” is good or bad… it’s a good thing but like most good things, you can have too much. It’s like crossing the road. Who doesn’t want to protect their child from the dangers of crossing roads? There’s an age when kids have to hold hands with an adult just to walk along the pavement; there’s an age when we start trusting them to stop at the kerb and wait for us and then hold hands; then to look both ways and cross with us, and later still to go out alone. And yes, the age varies and there’s always some risk even as an adult, but at some point we all have to let our darling vulnerable children run those risks.

So it’s not that I think control is bad, it’s more that I feel as if you are still clutching your son’s hand on the pavement when he is ready to start crossing some roads alone. Eventually there comes a stage when a child could walk safely and you would only be undermining your own parental authority if you were still grabbing his hand all the time. That’s why I asked whether your DS used the password to do anything harmful or dangerous. Sneaking the password is more like refusing to hold your hand, it’s not like running into the road.

And as for giving up - control isn’t all or nothing, some things can be totally up to our kids, some things are still under our control, other things we negotiate, and the older kids gets the less we can expect to control directly. There’s a huge space to explore between insisting on direct control and giving up.

[Palika]

It's not fear that is driving me - it's just what feels right for my DS. We have agreed computer times (chosen by himself) and when we are out the house he has them when we come back. I don't know what is so odd about that or hard to understand....

Here is an example how my feelings were proven right: When DS was five we were in the mountains on the Canaries and I put a suitcase belt around his tummy and held him on a lead, so that he would not tumble down the mountain side.

Then I saw all the other families with young children running around freely and without concern. I thought, 'what is wrong with me that I think that I must put my child on a lead?' I was really confused...Yet it felt absolutely impossible to take the risk that he would fall down these steep slopes.

Then a year or two later he was diagnosed with dyspraxia (gross-motor development disorder). My sense that he had not been safe had been absolutely correct. He frequently fell and had little control over his body.

As they say, 'mum knows best'.

[Palika]

I recently read a piece of solid scientific research about internet, boys and porn.
The professor said with authority that according to his research ANY boy of 14 -given the chance of unsupervised access internet - will look at porn.

Why should we not take such advice seriously? Who are we to believe that we know all this better?

I certainly will take heed! And it saddens me that so many people think they do not need to....and that porn is harmless etc. etc.

[Kleinzeit]

So, what your DS did wrong with the password was to gain more hours of access to the computer than he had agreed to? And access while you were out? And that’s all? Most of my friends would have laughed (possibly even in front of him) and changed the password. So I admit, I don’t understand why it is such a huge issue in your mind. Your DS is not allowed to pull the wool over your eyes even in such a trivial harmless way?

I have not said that porn is harmless. You said it was not an issue for your DS so I didn't see the point of going into it.

[cory]

Palika, you do seem to be contradicting yourself slightly. On the one hand, you say you are doing the right thing by your son because of your mother's instinct regarding his abilities to look out for himself and illustrate this with an anecdote of him on the ski slopes.

On the other hand you seem to be suggesting that parents in general ought to adopt the approach that has worked for you and more in particular that we ought to listen more to experts.

But if you have this mother's instinct regarding your child, what is to suggest that others may not have it too regarding theirs?

I allow my 13yo more freedom on the internet because my instinct regarding him is that he as an individual is a relatively mature and sensible person who wants to use the internet for precisely the purposes he says he wants to use it for and who understands about the exploitative side of porn. I have seen no reason to believe that my instinct is not justified.

I allowed my then 16yo dd the freedom to go to parties where there would be alcohol and let her travel up to London unsupervised to go to late-evening performances because I thought I could rely on her as an individual not to get hammered or get herself into dangerous situations. So far it seems my instinct has been justified.

But the other factor to consider here is that in two years time dd will have left home and will be totally dependent on her ability to police herself. I will not have the legal, moral or physical power to control her. Either she controls herself or she's in real trouble. She needs to learn now. Urgently.

Ds isn't there yet, but I want him to start practising. And the best way to do that is to identify what freedoms he is capable of handling as an individual and gradually hand those over to him. It's a very individual thing.

But I was interested to find that when I did come to meet real-life experts they generally tended to advocate managed self control except for very exceptional cases. Even when dd had a record for suicide attempts, they still told me I had to step back and let her take charge, because otherwise she would only be safe while I had my eyes on her and that wouldn't be for very much longer.

I am quite a disciplinarian when it comes to my children's behaviour. I will not put up with rudeness and a lack of consideration for others. I won't put up with when they're 50 either.

But when it comes to risk assessment I want it to be gradually passing into their hands between the ages of 12 and 18.

[Palika]

Cory,
I agree with virtually everything you say - and good for you that you feel that things are going well with your youngsters. That is of course ideal.

I do not say that everyone should do what I do any more than anybody else who gives advice here on the board. Surely, putting in our 2 pennies is all we can do on this board and people can pick and chose what they like.

Bringing up the experts has two reasons: firstly, I am getting constantly criticised for my parenting approach and I want to show why I am doing what I am doing. I believe we should listen to the experts and then use our own wisdom to do what is right. so, not one or the other but both.

Secondly, when it comes to internet safety we are all newcomers and we are probably all in for some bad surprises. In that case I find it essential to listen to the experts.

Just recently I read of a large-scale survey that said 10% of all teenage boy had raped girls in the US - I thought I was not reading right - they really said 10 percent. When they are older the number goes down. In Germany the number of young boys - below the age of puberty - that sexually assault girls has multiplied. And all this is just the beginning!

And sensibility is a very weak defence when it comes to our sexual urges. I want to see one person coming forward here and saying they never made an insensible sexual choice.

Anyway, I wished that everyone does their research and study the fact. There is a real time bomb ticking and that is not only me saying it.

Kleinzeit:

Yes, I do see honesty and trust as the foundation of every good relationship - from friends, to husband, business and my son. My DS, DH and me are so close that lying in any form feels like a deep disruption. If you and your friends can laugh about being lied to I can only surmise that you do not have this deep closeness that we enjoy.

But thanks for telling me that you and your friends would have laughed. (attention - irony!) I probably laugh about a few things in your parenting choices, as well. I think we just have to agree that our parenting choices differ widely, respect each other and support each other where we can. That's what I will do for you and hope you can also do this for me.

[flow4]

Brilliant post, cory. I agree with every word. :)

Ahhhh palika, now I understand the root of our problem! You say to me "Not everybody who has problems with their teens need to do what you have done, which I perceive as somehow giving up" . There are two fundamental misunderstandings here: one is that I don't give advice to everyone (usually I keep pretty quiet!) - but I'm likely to say something when I see a parent in distress, particularly if they seem to be struggling with 'control issues'. The other is that you judge me to be advocating 'giving up', which I am very definitely not doing.

I've seen my eldest son through 18 years - including two or three that were an utter nightmare, when many people here advised me I should give up on him and throw him out - through underachievement and bad behaviour and dangerous behaviour and drug use and even minor crime - to a point where he seems now to be back on track, and turning into a pleasant, responsible adult. Phew. :)

Like you, I've read a lot of books. Like cory, I've taken a lot of advice, and spoken to a lot of experienced people. I had a child psychiatrist tell me that my son and I have a 'strong and positive relationship'. A counsellor decided he didn't 'need' counseling. A police youth offending officer told me I was 'doing all the right things'. The educational psychologist said the same. So did the school and the GP. In total, 6 or 8 or perhaps 10 child behaviour 'experts' told me that my son and I didn't need their help, because I was managing fine.

But I wasn't. I was stressed and ill and struggling. I really could not understand how all these people could tell me we didn't need help, when my son was lying, stealing, truanting, under-achieving, taking drugs, getting violent with me and sometimes with others, not coming home at night, and doing other dangerous things...

Finally I got it. It took me about 5 years and a lot of stress and heartache. All these professionals were leaving me to 'cope' alone because they knew things I didn't know...

• 'Bad' behaviour is 'normal' for lots of teenagers, especially who are being made to do things they don't want to do.

• It usually passes, particularly if/when they find something they do want to do.

• They need to grow up a bit and realise they have responsibility for their own actions.

• If a parent is involved and doing anything about their child, that's good enough, because it's the kids no-one cares about who get into real trouble - and the ones who believe no-one cares about them...

The professionals - knowing all this - could step back. After all, there's no point spending money on a problem that's going to sort itself out, or be sorted out for free by mum, is there? But that didn't help me, and it doesn't help anyone here who is looking for help.

If you've found parenting 'techniques' that work for you pal, that's great. But I tried everything - everything - and none of it worked for me and my DS1.

Now I know you will be thinking that I can't have tried everything, or if I did, I must have done it wrong, or been inconsistent, or not done it long enough. And I understand that response, I really do, because I thought the same myself. (That is why my son once had no allowance at all for about a year... :( ) But because I sought all that help, and talked to so many 'experts', as well as to countless teachers and friends and other people here on MN, I am able to be more-or-less certain that I 'did everything right', even if you doubt me. :)

So, if you've found techniques that work for you, pal, then you don't need my advice. I'm not offering it to people who already know how to handle the problems they have. But I do, I think, have something useful to say to those who are at a loss, those who have tried everything, those who feel a bit desperate...

For those parents, I believe there are some key bits of advice...

* Some kids just are more challenging than others. If you're the parent of one of these, your priorities for them are (a) finding them something that they want to do, and (b) helping them learn about self-control and personal responsibility.

* Look after yourself. It's not a luxury; it's a survival essential.

* If parenting advice is making you feel shit, don't try to follow it. If it doesn't work for you, that's because it is wrong for you and your DC, not because you are wrong.

* If you've 'tried everything' and your DC is still resisting or fighting you, this is about control rather than any specific behaviour.

* If you are in a 'battle for control' with your teen, you only have two real options: lose control, or work out how to give them control. Any 'win' you have can only ever be temporary, and ultimately doesn't help, because the whole aim of parenting is for your children to grow up and become independent.

* If you do lose control, you don't have to lose influence. Keep on telling them about your beliefs and values, and what you think is right and wrong, because they absorb the 'moral messages' you give them, even while they appear to reject them.

* It's not personal, even if it feels it is. They don't hate you really. :)

... And be prepared to be misunderstood!

[Palika]

Flow
thanks for this long and thoughtful post. To be honest, I think you and I are pretty much on one wavelength. We both like to voice our opinions very confidently and that provokes sometimes contradictions.

I said before and I say it again - I DO NOT think that you did not something wrong and that I would have known the answer if had been in your shoes. I shudder to imagine what you have must gone through and you have my greatest sympathies and also admiration for trying so hard and speaking to so many experts etc. (Incidentally, I find it horrible that they all left you out in the rain like this)

But I am very happy for you that things do get better now with your DS1

Maybe it was something in your wording on various posts that comes across as giving up...and I felt I wanted to put something more hopeful against that....but I will give it a rest now. So, lets not argue about it any more. As I said I am so happy for you that DS1 is better and that DS2 is such a delight for you.

My own DS is having a very good phase now - very co-operative, even genuinely caring at times and no more angry outbursts for the last few months and the lying overall is much better except for sometimes. Recently, he fell back into his old chaotic ADD (attention deficit) behaviour but it seems better, too. Let's hope it will stay that way.

[flow4]

Haha, OK palika. I think you're still confusing 'giving up' with 'letting go'... But you're right, we've argued about it long enough! :)

[Kleinzeit]

Palika yes your own observations of your child are very important. If you can see your child is unsteady on his feet then of course you have to help him stay safe and upright, even when all the other kids are running round freely. When I asked my babysitting auntie not to leave my 4yo DS to play in another room with another little boy she was very surprised but said “you know your own child best”. The two boys had a lovely time together and when they disagreed she easily resolved it for them. I had already seen that my DS couldn’t safely handle disagreements with other children by himself. At the time I (wrongly) expected him to develop that ability soon (that was before he had his ASC diagnosis) but I could see for myself he didn’t have it yet.

So why not trust your own observations still? After all, experts treat an observation of a child’s actual behaviour as more important than even the most reliable scientific research on children in general. Yes, a teenager with unsupervised computer access might look at porn, or spend his parents’ money on game tokens, or sit up half the night playing Grand Theft Auto, or send rude email messages, or do many other stupid destructive things. When he stole the password surely your son had the opportunity to do at least some of them? But in reality he chose to do none of them. Do you think that was only because he is still too ignorant or too afraid of your punishment, or might there also be the teensiest chance that he is starting to develop some good sense of his own?

(And by the way flow – the one thing I don’t believe you ever did was give up! You are my role model for staunch These days my DS is behaving well by most teen standards but if he does go off the rails and the experts can’t or wont help then be warned, it’s you and maryz and cory I’ll be looking to!)

[flow4]

Hahaha, I think I may get a t-shirt printed:
I AM KLEINZEIT'S
ROLE MODEL FOR STAUNCH!

(And thank you for the compliment!)

[Palika]

Kleinzeit
where would you be without the experts? Not long ago ASC was not recognised and your child would have simply been labled as naughy. But through informing yourself through the experts about what to expect and not, you managed to build a good relationship with him and not overtax him etc. Isn't that a good thing? No amount of common sense would have helped you to do that without the experts.

But what I really want to know is how you manage to laugh when you Dc lies at you. I really don't get it - is lying to you a joke? When does the joke end and when do you start to expect honesty? At what age do you draw the line? At 15 it's laughable and at 16 it's deeply hurtful? If you DS cheats on his friends and they on him, do you find that laughable, too? Or if your friends or DH lie to you is that also a joke to you?

Every time you laugh at his lying you are sending a message that lying is okay, not a big deal. But in real relationships surely you agree that honesty is the very very most important thing. The foundation for everything else. One can deal with many things that are not quite right but surely not with dishonesty.

Anyway, many questions - but I'd really like to know how you manage to see lying as a joke. What is your rationale? Maybe I can even take it on board and do not need to get so upset anymore

[Kleinzeit]

No amount of common sense would have helped you to do that without the experts.

Where did I say that I didn’t value the experts? But they are only one part of the solution, they never have all the answers. The psychologist even told me “Go and talk to the parents at the autistic society, they are the ones who really know about this”.

Every time you laugh at his lying you are sending a message that lying is okay, not a big deal.

Palika, I don’t think we are ever going to understand each other on this. I can’t challenge this kind of statement because it is based on so many different assumptions that I don’t accept, that I couldn’t begin to argue with them all! We would only get more and more tangled up. So, we will just have to agree to follow our different approaches.