How do we know which retailers have ethical practices? Related to the Bangladeshi factory tragedy

[Cristiane]

The news from Banglaesh gets worse and worse - 352 people dead so far in the collapses factory where people made clothes for Matalan, Primark and ther names.

I don't want to buy from labels that don't use sweat shops and don't use suppliers that have coercive or dehumanising working conditions. Does anyone know if there is a list prepared of the most ethical retailers?

Thanks Tapsel - have sent email from that site. Agree to a MN campaign/raising awareness here. There are good organisations battling out there to improve things. It would be a wonderful legacy for all of those who died this week, if their deaths contributed to a change in practice for UK companies and their suppliers

I think an MN campaign is a great idea. I don't want to do people out of jobs in developing nations but not do I think that we need so many cheap, wear once clothes from Primark etc. I do work in finance and I am aware of the pressure on retailers to keep margins up and costs down.

What does work though is customers voting with their feet and wallets. If we know which retailers to avoid they will sharpen up their act so they don't lose sales

Which shops are you boycotting?

WreckItRalph - I agree with you on the labeling question. If we can trace food products, why can't we trace garments? And have independent inspections of the factories? We need more transparency.

I don't care if it's hassle for clothing companies or if it means they make slightly less profit - it's worth it. European governments have a duty here because this problem is too complex for individual "consumers" to tackle - we are exporting this stuff into our countries and we must ensure we don't have blood on our hands when we do so.

I think companies will clean up their act when they know they are being watched and cut corners if we allow them to continue to do so.

How about a Primark ban? They have got lots of positive publicity on MN in the past (all the threads about 'Primarni' finds). If someone is more informed, please feel free to add to the list. The ban would mean 1) no personal and family shopping with them and 2) no pictures, blog posts or positive reviews about items bought from them.

Lots of clothes manufacturing operates by subcontracting. It's very complex but I think the aim should be a gradual increase in working and living conditions for all (= we understand we may have to pay more, think fairtrade tea, coffee and bananas).

I've shopped a lot at Zara, H&M and their affiliate chains and they are some of the biggest global gigants and they have a huge amount of subcontracters. Will need to do a bit of homework to decide whether they are already doing something to improve their practices.

We've done positive promotion for ethical niche labels here before and there is no harm in continuing to do so, but it is not enough. They play a bit part in the global trade - the gigants have the biggest influence. And we are an important customer base for the gigants.

H&M are definitely listening - read this Guardian article. Gilding the lily - possibly? But you have to start somewhere...

Interesting site - Rankabrand - for consumers trying to decide which brands are sustainable.

I think it is a complex issue, real independent auditing of factories and working conditions would be a start - with grading system to show what kind of conditions/wages the workers have to put up with. A number on the label saying where the garment is made and how ethical/fair is the factory?

Could it be quite simple to do. What charities are involved in monitory the human rights. Of workers? Aims for improvement again on a grading system to see what has been achieved and what needs to be worked on.

The thing is if I can buy fairtrade, if it is available, I will buy it, bananas, coffee, tea, I have bought fairtrade fashion conscious clothing in the past but it is getting harder to find and if consumers don't demand it... Even if the cotton is fairtrade their is no guarantee the person making a garment is fairly treated.

This doesn't just happen in Bangladesh - boycotting clothes from there might do more damage than good? The pressure has to be on the companies. If they are willing to listen to their customers.

I am not wearing anything fairtrade today:

Bra - Freya - made in Tunisia
Knickers & vest - m & s - made in Sri Lanka
Jeans - uniqlo - made in China
T-shirt - H&M - made in Bangladesh

I have stopped shopping in TP/DP because of tax evasion, Homebase etc because of workfare - but I think the treatment of workers in the garment industry is actually morally/ethically much much worse.

It makes me feel sick, angry and sad. What can I do?

This is such a complex issue. As a consumer I want to buy ethically, but information is key. There is also the "best of a very bad bunch" scenario with pretty much all of the high street. So firstly I would welcome proper information.

Secondly, as a consumer we have some responsibility, but it is important to remember where key responsibilities and power to change lie. With companies and subcontractors and factory owners.

There is already a fair trade label for clothes ; it's exactly the same as that on a jar of coffee. Problem is, you have to actively seek out fair trade clothing from Nomads, People Tree, Ascension etc, to find it. These brands are limited, & few in number & doing their best, but if we want fair trade to become the default option for clothing (as amazingly sugar, tea & chocolate now are) then we're going to have to exercise our ethical duty as consumers, until the fall in demand for sweatshop produce induces a moral conscience in the big retailers.

I would gladly boycott shops/brands that exploit their workers but I just don't know/can't find a definitive list.

Easy for me to boycott primark/Matalan as I never shop there anyway but interested in places like zara/h&m/gap and also the higher end of the high street so places like whistles/boden/comptoir etc. I tend to assume if I'm paying a higher price it should be ok but I don't really know.

From what I've read, higher price is mo guarantee unfortunately.

So maybe it would be a good idea as well to have a list of ethical retailers to start off with - bangon you say People Tree, Ascension and Nomads

Do any of them make children's clothes?

It is weird that fair trade is established for food goods. I was thinking about my 'organic' cotton tops from H&M and Sainsburys... And how weird that organic is seen as a selling point and not fair trade for clothes!

There's a petition ongoing at the moment, will find a link...

Primarkjobs @Mango @Matalan: ensure safety for workers & compensate victims of building collapse

I used to have some info on the rag trade but not upto date with it - assume its pretty much the same. They buy from wherever that has the lowest price. It used to be India then moved to cheaper Pakistan, then moved to Philippines, then Vietnam and now Bangladesh. If a retailer/buyer had an ethical requirement then all that was required was a statement from the supplier saying that they produce according to those guidelines.

It is very difficult to control due to the long supply chain spread over different countries & continents, the fibre suppliers, the yarn makers, the weavers, the finishers and then there is all the zips, buttons, interlinings ....

wasn't apple linked to problems at several manufacturing sites in china, with reported suicides, explosions etc, apparently they managed to hide behind the supply chain.

What I am saying is that we probably end up with some PR effort rather than real change for the slave labour.

A very simple and helpful ethical ranking list of major UK high street clothes vendors (includes H&M and Zara).

You can of course argue about the criteria, but you also need to start somewhere. Bottom line: if you care at all about factory workers' conditions, don't buy dirt cheap clothes and don't buy your clothes at supermarkets.

Zara have repeatedly had problems with slave/ child labor in South America.

Looking through the Rankabrand site linked above, which rates brands A to E based on criteria including not employing child labour and so on, there are some interesting/depressing finds on brands I like, and brands that are often mentioned on here. Have picked out ones people on S and B might be interested in out of a total of 258 brands.

A (top rated) only 4 brands made this category.

Nudie jeans - DH has a pair of these, cost over £100 from Selfridges, they're really good jeans and I had no idea they were fair trade so to them.

B

Cos, Veja, H and M, Cheap Monday,Vila and Vero Moda. Also mama-licious who I haven't heard of for maternity stuff but will check out.

C

Zara, Primark, New Look, Gap, Monsoon, ASOS, Esprit, Next. High end - Acne and Stella McCartney

D

New Balance, Coast, Laura Ashley, Benetton (surprised!) Victoria's Secret, North Face, UGG. High end - Burberry, Calvin Klein, Gucci, Balenciaga, Yves Saint Laurent, Chloe.

E (lowest of the low, start your boycotts with these guys)

Dr Martens, Triumph, Sloggi, Hollister, Hugo Boss, Tommy Hilfiger, Marc Jacobs (my fave, gulp), Fendi, Louis Vuitton (!), DKNY, Quiksilver, Freya, Michael Kors, French Connection, Hush Puppies, Crocs, Alexander McQueen, Paul Smith, Dior, Versace, Valentino, Dolce and Gabbana, Vivienne Westwood, Havaianas ( ), Prada, Kenzo, Chanel, La Perla, Falke, Lanvin, Clarks, Desigual, Louboutin, Miu Miu, Diesel, Ralph Lauren, Jimmy Choo, Burton, MaxMara, Isabel Marant and Givenchy.

Omg. So many top end brands in the worst ranked for working conditions

I'm surprised about Vivienne Westwood. She always seems to try to be so 'right on' yet she is in the bottom category.

Interesting thread, thank you OP.

I've recently been shopping for my maternity hospital bag, I'm booked for an ELCS so need PJs and clothes which sre high up to avoid scar. The only high street shop which sold anything which would do was Primark (none of our high street shops offer a maternity range anymore) but the day after ti bought them the news hit about the building collapse.

I really now want to return these items, ethically I don't want to feel bad about the clothes I'm wearing. Financially however buying and then paying for returns from Internet shopping stings a bit.

Thread has helped me make up my mind.

Yoni - that is really shocking to see those brands in the bottom set, when you think of all the profits the shareholders of those brands must be making

Cristiane well done for starting this yhread. Perhaps the power of Mumsnet will help the manufacturers wake up and take notice. We want ethically produced garments.... There for the grace of the gods go i.... Fickle finger of fate deems i was born in the west with its labour laws. But we should fight for those less fortunate

Thanks for that list YoniOno . You know what, as distasteful as it is that Primark and the like are using these places to produce their stuff, I think it's even more unethical and immoral of the high end companies that are making such a huge profit on each piece.

Would it be fair to say that if a product is labelled as made in an EU country that it it safe enough to say that it's ethically produced, or is there any funny business with the labelling?