Male business dress code for USA

[KristinaM]

DH is travelling to NYC, Florida and Texas on a business trip in November. Apart from " a dark suit" I can't find much advice on the net about what he should wear. It's a pretty traditional sector ( think attorneys) and he will be at meetings and conferences in the day and dinners etc in the evenings. He needs to make a very good impression but he naturally tends towards a slightly scruffy /eccentric /academic look,which I'm not sure is quite right for the Us market IYSWIM

So it's the details I'm looking for please.Is the dress code similar to the Uk or different in subtle ways?

Does the shirt have to be white or light coloured? Do ties need to be very consevative? What does he wear in the evenings? How cold will it be in NYC and what does he wear over his suit? Casual jacket or a woollen coat? Will it snow and if so, what footwear is suitable?

He normally carries all his paperwork, laptop etc in a rucksack-is that ok or will it be seen as too casual /scruffy?

[BrandyAlexander]

If you're worried about making sure he looks formal then i would go for something like this zip folio or underarm zip folio

[KristinaM]

Thanks novice. Will that be formal enough for these US meetings?

[BrandyAlexander]

Hi Kristina, I wouldn't bother with the traditional briefcase, I would get a shoulder bag or man bag as that is much more common now. You can get these from Debenhams, John Lewis etc.

[KristinaM]

Just to update all your helpful people

Have been shopping with DH and purchased new charcoal suit, charcoal wool overcoat, black shoes, white shirts and pale lilac shirt ( blue didn't look good with grey suit) , black belt and selection of co ordinating ties. He is a vision of loveliness .

Have taken his vintage watch ( his grandfathers ) to be overhauled . To be worn insead of cheap modern one.

Have still to get a briefcase . No one in his office has anything suitable to borrow,so I will have to purchase.sigh. Any suggestions?

[BrandyAlexander]

Your dh should dress in a conservative way. Dark suit, plain shirt, simple silk tie. Not slip on shoes! Doesnt matter whether shoes and watch are cheap or not as long as they dont look tatty/old/worn out/dirty or cheap. Wear the same thing to dinner. Worse case, dh can take jacket off at the table to appear more casual. Shoulder bag is the norm, esp ones which also have short handles so can be carried as a briefcase (I am not suggesting the following at all as they are expensive but as an example of what i mean look at Hidesign). Dont take gifts. If still in doubt and your dh has a PA, ask them to contact the EAs of the people he is meeting and confirm the dress code is business as opposed to business casual.

[mathanxiety]

...tell him not to try and play the British Eccentric in NY. There are Brits coming out of their ears here, and the old "Brits sound more intelligent" doesn't hold water with successful New Yorkers.

Lawyers tend to be very bright people.

You can get Belgian choc and other fine chocolate anywhere in the US. Good Scotch is the gift to bring (if gifts are appropriate, which they may not be)..

[hermioneweasley]

Agree, dark suits, good shirts (not button down, dear lord) and silk ties. Try Hawes and Curtis for good quality shirts and ties.

Depending on the dinner location I would continue in a suit. A sweater would only be ok with slacks/ chinos. These should also be good quality.

Slip on shoes will be fine as American men tend to wear this style, but obviously in good condition and polished.

If it's appropriate to take token gifts, take Belgian chocolates - good quality choc is expensive and hard to get there.

[TheCatInTheHairnet]

And, having read back on the thread, tell him not to try and play the British Eccentric in NY. There are Brits coming out of their ears here, and the old "Brits sound more intelligent" doesn't hold water with successful New Yorkers.

[TheCatInTheHairnet]

I agree with the dress rules being very different in each state. What I would say is that New Yorkers tend to go for quite conservative shirts and ties, compared to Brits. As for the watch thing, in NY, yes they will notice your cheap watch and cheap shoes. We had only lived here for 3 days before someone commented on DH's watch!! He invested in a good one that day!!

[monsterchild]

Wow, I'm learning so much about how lawyers dress! I never knew!
And I am a lawyer!

[BessieMcBean]

I wouldn't say it's sexist but in the US women are women (hence flowing locks etc and lack of manly suits) and men are men (no flowing locks like you might see in France or crumpled linen suits). In Texas you get lots of moustaches.

Maybe he could just borrow a good or antique watch. And a decent pen is a good idea. Maybe he would get more wear out of a good raincoat than wool coat.

[mathanxiety]

The look they are trying to convey is 'former water polo player/ don't mess with me'. So no subtlety really. Or taste either necessarily.

The men are sending the same message, only with football (American) as well as water polo in their schooldays and possibly college days too. Hence the expensive and well cut suits.

[TheKettle]

Havent had time to read all replies so I apologise if somebody has already mentioned this, but just want to add that he may be invited to Country Club events - dinner in the evening or golf or tennis during the day or weekend so he may need something suitable for their country club look too. In the evening his suits should be fine but for the daytime I'd suggest a very smart pair of chinos, polo shirt, good quality leather belt and a v neck sweater, preferably Pringle or something similar. The daytime advice may only apply to Florida due to the weather. They may not be playing much tennis in NY at this time of year and winters can get cold in parts of Texas.

[KristinaM]

It looks very odd to European eyes doesnt it? I expected dark coloured ( not nessarily black) very good quality tailoring, either dresses, skirts or trousres with/out jackets. And bright colours in shirts ,blouses or dresses. very good quality shoes -Leather with closed toe, not stripper heels . And expensive bags. Ad no obviously bare legs, certainly not with above knee skirts

[mathanxiety]

Many female American lawyers go for an aggressive 'flaunting it' sexy look (or what they imagine to be sexy). For women, clothing has to be recognisably expensive -- it doesn't necessarily have to suit or flatter; in fact all the better if it looks as if you have lots of money to spend but not enough time to make sure you find something that looks good on you, and again, 'aggressive and not traditionally feminine' is the look women in law are looking for. A traditionally feminine woman would take care to look better.

If you look at the poses they are striking, none of them is flicking her hair or touching her face. The only one doing something resembling 'feminine' with her legs is the business development officer, who is possibly not a lawyer but someone with a business background. The others are standing legs apart or with their legs crossed, which is the equivalent of the hand in trouser pocket male pose. They wear really high heels because that is the 2012 equivalent of the 80s power suit. Shoes are also the women's equivalent of the male tie thing. The more noticeable the better (and noticeable for the wrong reasons is fine as that means you are not traditionally feminine).

Subtle style doesn't come into it. 'Mutton dressed as lamb' is a phrase too many have obviously never heard.

[KristinaM]

Hes not in IT but he's on the technical side rather than being a business person or an attorney.and the attorneys he's meeting willbe litigation specialists, not fashion /music/sports or other trendy fashionistas, thank goodness.

I have to admit to being at the outfits of some of the female staff at proskaur. We have a small office in the suburbs of a provincial city and one of the outfits there would not even be worn by our support staff. Even the partners in the cream skirt suit and the grey trouser suit only looked passable IYSWIM. Grey trouser suit lady needed different shoes , not open toed strappy bright blue Boden platforms! And cream suit lady looked crumpled and frumpy, high neck top and pearls a bit dated. I hate to have to say this but nearly all of the men looked much better < prepares to be shot down in flames>

So i am taking Dh shopping next week for new suit and shirts ( needed anyway as he only has one decent suit), non cheapo ties and a decent belt . Only major new purchase required is wool overcoat instead of regatta jacket . Will ask around office to borrow a decent briefcase

Have decided against the cowboys boots for TA and FL . though liked the judges stories

ThAnks all for your help

[monsterchild]

Op, I wrongly thought that was you saying your DH was IT, sorry!

however, I don't know any fashonista lawyers (again, I'm not on the east coast!) so I wouldn't worry about the pen, but I also don't get to charge their rates for my work!

[monsterchild]

I would say it will be different in each state, too. Texas is going to have a different attitude than NYC. He could (not that you will be buying this, of course!) wear a bolo tie and boots with a nice, western cut coat. It would make the NYC guys all barf, but in Dallas or Houston, it would be ok, if he felt confident wearing that.

however, you can't really go wrong being in a dark suit with a tie. It's not likely that anyone will be too worried about his watch, and if the deal is broke due to his watch, then it wasn't a strong bid anyway.

Where I am, the JUDGES routinely wear boots and some don't wear ties at all. One judge here wears a blue robe, as he likes it better.

As to the rucksack, again, he can pull that off if he's really more comfortable with it. Many attorneys have weathered and battered bags they have been using for donkey's years.

And him being BOTH British and an IT guy will give him huge leeway in how he dresses.

I do not live in NYC (used to live in Jersey but left for wider skies) so I'm probably not the best person to be telling you any of this!

[mathanxiety]

The US has its share of eccentric geniuses too...

[mathanxiety]

Status is so important with lawyers. They can be a shallow bunch. Many care and their designer suit trousers are in fact judgey pants.

He wouldn't need a new pen, just not a bic biro. Paper Mate do decent looking ones that don't look like school pens.

Your DH sounds lovely and I hope his trip will be fun for him and a success.

Lawyers are often convivial and cogenial sorts (as well as being on the judgey by appearance side). The good ones are 'people people'. One of the best and most brilliant I ever knew used to ride his bike to work through freezing midwestern winters. I heard from his wife that he kept the bike in their bedroom and she knew he would save that before returning for her if there was ever a fire. He was also one of the most successful lawyers I ever knew. He had one glass eye and talked out the side of his mouth, had a shock of reddish hair. He had biked across the US alone when he was 17.

[EldritchCleavage]

Charles Tyrwhit and Lewins do good shirts and ties and are good at multi-buy offers.

Better to ditch the watch and just use his 'phone for the time if he doesn't want to splash out on that. And the suits need to be brushed and not crumpled.

[KristinaM]

Cunning plan -He's not remotely a doofus and they will know that the minute he opens his mouth. If they haven't worked it out from his cv. But if they think he's a brilliant man who dresses from M&s they might not take him as seriously as he deserves , given that dressing smartly is a sign of status in their world .

I'm hopeful that you are right, they will find British eccentricity charming

[Themilkybarisonme]

mathanxiety thank you - I'm going to copy and paste and make a note of all that in case of future need (subject to era/fashion reviews!)
Some people don't care about clothes. Most people want you to look smart. But some people really care and you only need one of your clients to be in that box to sink you. I remember coming out of a meeting with the head of a university. "Did you see his shoes?" she said, "Prada." I hadn't looked, wouldn't have known... But people who care, judge.

OP, I understand entirely. My techie DH recently became technical director of an IT firm. I have had to fight every step from Primark to TM Lewin and there's further to go. He goes to a leaders thing run by Ernst and Young and I'm sure people would take him more seriously there if he were better dressed - IT guys don't believe you. I think he'd still be in £13 primark trousers if I'd let him!

[CunningPlan]

To be honest I think that mathanxiety is going a little far. Remember that he needs to be and feel confident in what he's wearing. Smart, certainly, but a new pen? He's not being interviewed for a job, they just need to get the impression from what he's wearing that he's not a total doofus who doesn't know what he's talking about.

They will forgive (and find charming) a certain amount of British eccentricity.

[KristinaM]

Thanks for all that math

Just so you know what I'm up against .....I just told Dh he needed some new ties

" Great " he replied " NY is just the place for ties. You can get three for $20 from the guys who sell them in the street "