CSA assessments and the 2nd family

[kittykat77]

This is my first time posting in this section, but we are at a bit of a loss on what to do now.

Brief history - DH has 1 child with ex, separated 7 yrs ago (before we got together!). Since then DH has always paid his way, and paid way over the top when they got divorced to keep ex happy, so she could keep the house ect.

We have had 2 kids of our own since, and have been paying £200 for the last couple of years. SHe has now gone to CSA, and looking at their website, payments could be as much as £275 per month, based on DH's earnings. We have high living costs,high costs when he does see his son(which is not often due to big problems with access) and also debts which were due to his ex when they split up.

Basically we can only just survive at the moment,and if the CSA demand more money it could mean that we will lose our home. Does anybody have any experience of how sympathetic the CSA are to the 2nd family in cases like these and whether they are likely to take into account our full financial situation, and also the needs of our 2 new children?

[BlueCollie]

I know tell me about it. He pays £281 in CSA and the rest is a loan taken out to pay for her car that she insisted he did when they split. She played the blackmail card and because he is a kind, caring father he bought a car so his daughter wasn't without transport (don't ask!) the ex refuses to drive to airports in it though to drop daughter off or pick up. Says she can't afford it but drives around all over the place other times and also jets off down to Southern Ireland when she feels like it too.

[Petal02]

Bluecollie - it seems wrong that your DP has to pay £400 to his ex for one child, when such a payment leaves you almost unable to live.

[BlueCollie]

Sorry just realised that it is old thread...oops!!!

[BlueCollie]

KK - we are in a similar situation as you and my DH can not afford to see his daughter as often as he likes because we don't have £300 spare a month to do so. Unfortunately with the £400 that goes out for CSA and the cow's car repayments we have nothing left and before anyone starts banging on about how important it is for fathers to see thier kids I KNOW however, my son needs a roof over his head, our electricity and gas need to be paid. Our house and council tax isn't paid for by the state like her's is and so she never needs to worry about not meeting a mortgage payment!!! I get really sick and tired of people going on and looking at me like I am harsh for saying we can't afford for DH to visit his daughter more. We are over £15000 in debt due to solicitors fees and court costs fighting for the piddly bit of access we have and faced with a very obstructive nasty woman who is not at all willing to do anything to ensure contact is facilitated between parent and child.
And for those that say they would rather go without so that a parent sees their child we do go without already and my son goes without. I do not drive my car unless absolutely necessary, I don't get my haircut, I don't buy clothes, I don't go out, I don't have any goodies in the house ....oh no I bought some cadbury's cream eggs as they were on special at £1.50!! My son's clothes mainly come from other people and he didn't get any christmas presents from us. I turn down every invite to go places with friends with kids because we don't have any money. All this while that woman has her eyes lasered, goes out, buys new clothes and her child is taken to the theatre, cinema, play centres, art classes so on and so on. So unfortunately yes my DH won't be seeing his daughter more than once this year but unfortunately unless we all stop eating food there isn't any money left for him to visit his daughter. My son goes without and unfortunately so must his daughter.

[Petal02]

MJ, I hadn't noticed this was an old thread - well spotted.

Regarding your earlier post, you're right - I don't think any of us would wish to see our husbands/partners shirk their financial responsibilities to their children. My husband was happy to pay, he paid a generous amount, and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

I am slightly wary of the CSA, simply because their methods of calculation can be very strange, and you hear of many cases where the second family is almost on the breadline because of the amount due to the first family.

[Abip]

Hi OP.

I really feel for you. My partner has to pay his exw substantial amount for their 16 year old.

She left and took one son with her. She left the other son with my dp. She swore she would not go to the csa. As soon as the dss living with us turned 18 she went to csa and refused to answer our calls.

Her dp earns over 100k per year as a doctor.

My exh now does not pay for our children. He chose to get married then stopped paying as their wedding cost so much. He has now become a house husband and she works calculating the children NOTHING.


My advice. How about dp becoming a house husband and you work full - time?

The system is so wrong. Dp and I struggle financially to the point where we have considered splitting up. His exw has done this purely out of spite.

She left him as she didnt want him. But it appears women can have the attitude that they dont want them and no one else can have them. They also want to take the ex's to the cleaners??? She does not even need the f*G money!!! Their having their third holiday this year to the caribbean.

Great system CSA

[lovemyalfa]

wow some of you must be so proud of how you've conned the ex out of maintenance for their children! My XH must have been reading the thread because he 'cooked the books' to get an assessment of £5 per week for our DS and doesn't even bother to pay that. It's not as if he's ever paid anything and I went to the CSA in desperation hoping they would help but he just lies and lies.
His 2nd family is not penalised at all, they live in a big house and have nice holidays whilst they think it's OK to lie so they don't have to contribute to DS welfare. Nice folk!
My DS has no contact with his father even though he lives 5 miles away, partly because he realises how little his welfare means to his so-called father. If you genuinely care about your child you will suck it up and help to pay for them, not play the system.

[Petal02]

To: ihatethecsa

Just wanted to say that I applaud you, because the CSA don?t always get it right. Our situation is slightly different to yours, but the principle is the same.

When I met my husband, he paid £450 per month to his ex, for two children (one child is now at uni, so he now only pays for one, and the payments have reduced). We could afford this amount, and were happy to pay it. We also buy extra things for SS, as his mother clearly doesn?t spend the maintenance payments on him, ie she has a pedigree dog, but he?s never got enough school shirts or decent shoes.

However - the background to this is interesting. DH is a builder, he works for himself, employs a couple of guys, and makes a decent living. The CSA wanted a fixed percentage of his income (can?t remember what it was) which would have meant he was paying an insane amount per month to his ex, far in excess of what you?d expect to pay towards two children.

Obviously DH wanted to do the best by his kids, but realised (a) the CSA amount was crazy; and (b) his ex was unlikely to spend it on the children, and time has proved him correct.

So his accountant did something creative with the books, and produced figures which resulted in a CSA calculation of £450 per month. The ex was apparently going purple with rage because she knew he?d cooked the books, but couldn?t prove it (of course builders never do cash jobs ha ha ha ?? ) and in the end she didn?t go through the CSA, they agreed via solicitors on £450 per month, simply because on the figures the accountant produced, the CSA couldn?t generate a larger claim.

But you hear of ridiculous stories where the second families are penalised as per the OP ? and I agree completely that the CSA don?t always get it right.

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

Another old thread in step parwnting resurrected by dadaz.

[dadaz]

Maybe not JUST "Other Mothers" shouldn't that have been parents?

Guilty of generalisation much?

[kittykat77]

Paulie & juas, sorry to hear about your problems with CSA.

Yes their system is completely crap. I have to admit that when our MP got involved they did seem to look at our case a bit more, but in the end the outcome was still that 'that is what the system says so tough'.

We have 2 other children in our family, but basically it seems that the whole system does not even care if they are out on the streets as we can't pay our mortgage, just so long as DH's ex gets her money, which in my opinion is way more than what she needs to keep DSS anyway. THe fact that we have just learnt that they are all going on a very expensive long foreign holiday next year just makes my blood boil!!

So unfortunately can't report that we got very far, but think something definately needs to change in this ridiculous system that is the CSA.

[justunaccomplishedsanta]

Just to add to this. DH was paying the CSA on a regular basis right up until DSD was 9. During this time all the money went to her mother and dsd saw none of it because she was living with her nan and grandad (her mum's parents) at the time. They got no money at all for her.

She moved in with us when she was 9, hence DH stopping payments. It was legal and above board, DH got a residency order for her and I claimed child benefits and tax credits for her. Yet for some reason the CSA still seemed to think DH should be paying maintence to his ex - even though he was now the resident parent. Took us over a year to finally get through to them, during that time they hounded us nad claimed DH owed them over £20,000. Funny as DH has never earned that much in his life. When we finally got them to believe us (funny how we were obviously lying even though we could prove she lived with us through court orders, child benefit and tax credit letters and even his ex telling them she didn't live with him anymore).

Complete bollocks the whole bloody system. And no we don't get a penny off his ex and haven't done in the 7 years DSD has lived with us.

[paulieh]

All sounds interesting, but I am about to lose my home after a massive increase in CSA payments. They have gone up from £350 per month to just under £600. They actually took near to £1,000 this month in 'error' and I can't have a refund I'm told.

They say I owe over £7,000 in arrears that I am disputing and have requested my file from them which will take 40 days to arrive. I have copied in my MP but I don't seem to be getting anywhere. I have also complained about the attitude of the staff who telephone me as they are very aggressive and unprofessional. I have paid them for years and to date totalled over £21,000. They really don't care about anyone even to the extent of losing ones home and not being able to afford basics such as food. The system is rubbish I can fully understand why people take their own lives.

I've had enough of it all!!!

[mummynumber2]

Good luck with your MP ktiiykat. Looks like we may be following the same route as you as after thinking it was sorted we had a letter this morning saying they are going to take 40% of DPs income anyway! Despite the fact that his ex sais that she doesn't want any of the arrears money and admits that he was paying during that period.

I would advise your DH to write to the CSA following his phone conversation and also email the same letter if possible, making it known that he will also be sending a copy to his local MP. It does sound like they've made mistakes here. I would also get him to sent a photocopy of as many payslips as he can find, maybe the last 6 months worth.

Please try not to get into so called 'csa arrears', as that's when they get really nasty. Get your DP to stop paying anything that he may already be directly to his ex, even if it is less thanand pay all money through the CSA keeping a note of when it was paid. If not they will claim that he wasn't paying at all during the period it takes to sort it all out.

Good luck!

[Frankensteinshughjarsssss]

Sorry for the typos, just got in work and am very tired!

[Frankensteinshughjarsssss]

Its good that you have spoken to your MP kittykat. I have heard of cases being turned on their head because of the MP stepping it - I think it does depend how pro active your MP is though so really get on to him kitty!

I wouldnt hold out much hope of the system being though. In 2013ish CMEC is being introduced, its the goverments third attempt at getting the CSA right but I it sounds just as bad, if not worse.

Hope everything goes well for you Kitty.

[kittykat77]

DH has got back onto CSA and explained all the ways in which the assessment is based on income which is not even a true reflection of his actual monthly salary.

The CSA have agreed to reduce the payments by...a whole £1 per week. By our calculations it should be £20 per month less. And this is apart from the fact we can't even pay it anyway.

I have made an appointment with our MP, and will be taking all of these issues up with him at our meeting. The whole fundamentals of this system are morally wrong, and something needs to be done. Maybe if enough people make a fuss, and highlight the unfairness to the children in the 2nd family, they may do something about it eventually. I'm sure there must be a case for human rights somewhere here.

Anyway. Will let u know if we actually get anywhere. At least it makes me feel a little better.

Mummyno2, it's unfortunate that you have also experienced problems and ended up having to use the CSA when you didn't necessarily have to. I realise there are other problems with the CSA system, not just from our side of things. THe whole thing wants a good overhaul if you ask me.

[mummynumber2]

The CSA claim to be helping children get out of poverty but the reality is that the poorest children e.g those with a single parent living on benefits only get to keep a very small proportion of the maintinance paid (something like £10 a week I think.) The rest is kept by the government to pay back the benefits.

It is worth knowing that in some circumstances, eg when the resident parent claims benefits, they have no choice but give the other parents details to the CSA.
This is what happened in our situation. Due to a lot of lies on DPs ex's behalf, (not necessarily to get at us but to cover up the fact that she was cheeting the system) we ended up seeing DSCs a lot less. The CSA made a catalogue of errors including taking the money from DP and not giving it to his ex, then telling her that he hadn't paid it.

The CSA has caused huge problems for my DSCs who actually aren't short of money at all and never have been.

Luckily DP and his ex have finally started being able to communicate about these things and it does seem like we are all finally out of CSA hell. And it looks like we may be seeing more of DSCs in the future too!

[kittykat77]

Jammi, I think you are definately right here. There has to be some sort of common goal between the parents here - ie. the best thing for their own child involved.

I have to be honest, in all the time I have been with DH she has treated him like a piece of dirt, and it has quite upset me in the past that he has had to lie down and take it. The only reason he has stood up to her of late is because we have had our own children. You are right though, I suppose the one satisfaction in all of this is that at least we treat our own children in a manner that they can be well adusted adults.

I would be very surprised if DSS ever grows up to be like this. (As if having all this to deal with, DH and I have suspected for a long time he has SN, but Ex has always denied it. Very long and messy history here...) I just worry that the person affected the most is DSS. Which really isn't right, is it?

[kittykat77]

Jammi, there seem to be quite afew very unfair stories coming out here.

All I keep thinking is, if DH and I split, especially through no fault of his, how could i make his life so hard with regards to access of his kids. At the end of the day he is still their dad, and if he had treated me with the respect he has his ex (both financially and in the way he has dealt with things on a day to day basis) I would feel really bad if I completely stiffed him over, as she has done.

TBH the last month was the first time he has ever stood up to her, and it was to do with DSS welfare, and felt he had no choice. This is obviously the backlash for what he felt was doing the best for his son (hard to explain without going into details) What happened to the 'best interests of the child' in any of this? To loose contact with his dad cannot be good. But as you say teh current system only supports the resident parent.