Husband's Ex Wife demanding more money, HELP!

[NewbieSM]

Hi there, I've been lurking on Mumsnet for about 6 months now and this is my first post..

I've been married to my husband for 3 years and it mostly been amazing, we are best friends, get on with family and his two DD's (10 and 8). I myself don't have any kids but grew up in blended family so feel I can relate to the girls on this level and get on really well.

DH has custody EOW and half the holidays, but will often have them extra weekends or public holidays when possible. This means DH pays child maintenance to EXW (as he should) of £160 p/w. Now on top of this we are responsible for paying for school uniform and shoes, 50% of clothes for both houses, trainers, all dental and braces, stationary (including iPad and laptop), tennis lessons and dance lessons, all trips, school photos, birthday and Xmas gifts. You name it, we provide it.

Now EXW is a SAHM, was when married to DH and has never had a job since. She is currently supported by her DP and benefits. I'm not underestimating the life of a SAHM, that's her choice, but she is now asking us for MORE money she wants DOUBLE! Says, you have two incomes and by marrying him, I'm agreeing to financially support the kids!

Now I do provide for the kids directly, I buy almost all their clothes with my own money and send them back to her house. I buy gifts, pay for holidays, bills, all stuff the kids benefit from. But there is no way I'm giving that woman any money.

How do we deal with this? She has form for discussing finances with the kids to paint us as the baddies. It's emotional blackmail, says, "you can't go the cinema because Daddy won't give me money" etc.

Don't want to fuck up what has been a relatively amicable arrangement between us. But also don't want fork out more money!

HELP!

Sorry this turned into a novel but I didn't want to miss out anything and I'm ranting a bit

[OllyBJolly]

However you do see some women who forget that when they divorced their husbands, they also divorced their wallets

What a mean comment! Tell that to all the posters who talk about family money, and joint finances, and facilitating careers. I can't believe a good parent would not want the best life for their children. And the money is for the children, not the XW. XW's life isn't a bed of roses- the NRP only has the children EOW and half holidays. Pretty tough to get a job that fits in around that (and I assume drop offs and pick ups will fall to XW if the DC's DF is not available) when you haven't ever worked.

OP does sound like a lovely stepmum who genuinely cares for the SC.

[LittleDragonGirl]

Not being funny but 160pw is over 700pm. It is way over the official amount cms would calculate.
I agree SOMETIMES on a low wage the cms calculation is a bare minimum but once you start to get to high wages it becomes a tad ridiculous. I would not pay her anymore as frankly your already paying way more then you should be, if shes running out of electric etc she needs to get a job or live within her means!

[NewbieSM]

She has personally sent me two texts and I only replied to the first one saying she needed to discuss this with Dh.

I think she thinks because I'm earning there is more money to cover our expenses therefore freeing up some more cash for her.

We won't be engaging in anymore money talks, she knows our position and there is sweet eff all she can do about it.

Will be interesting to see if tries the revenge tactic by trying to reduce contact. Hopefully she will soon realise what idiot she has been and pipe down.

[fedup21]

She has sent through several messages to us both asking for the extra money only until she gets a job as "we owe her" so I think she's pretty deep in the shit as she now only receives cb and cm plus her dps half of expenses.

Are you replying to her?

[Noshowlomo]

Oooo she's a CF she is! Yeah she wants your money for her, definitely not the kids!

[Butterflyflower1234]

Well done for both standing your ground. She's decided to be lazy and not bother working, clearly she's also useless with money as she's hardly hard done by.

Personally I'd be paying any of the clubs etc directly to the organisation instead of to their Mum as she's clearly no good with finances.

[TheReef]

Well done op.

I'm all for fairness when it comes to CM and spousal maintenance, when it's just and fair.

However you do see some women who forget that when they divorced their husbands, they also divorced their wallets. I have a friend like this and I simply can't talk to her about the situation as i think she is being totally unreasonable. She had an affair and decided to end the marriage, but still expects her ex to 'keep her in the manner she had when they were married' she doesn't see why she can't continue to live in a lovely 5 bed detached house and expects him to provide this for her (they have two dc). Her ex already pays over what is required and does almost 50% of child rearing. They sold the house and neither of them live in a large house any longer, but she genuinely feels hard done to, and only works 16hrs a week.

[funinthesun19]

Can she go and do one of those “back to work” courses if she’s lacking the confidence? I think they are a thing. She can’t go her whole life without working. What will she do when her kids grow up and the cb, tax credits and maintenance stop?

Her kids are in school so it’s not like she is providing wrap around care every day and not working because of that. At the very least, she should be in part time work but it seems she can’t even be bothered making that happen.

She’s going to really struggle later on in life if she doesn’t get her act together. One day your dh won’t have to pay her anything and she won’t get any benefits, so she will literally have nothing unless she works.

[NewbieSM]

Yes she is 34 and has never been in paid employment (her choice) I think you are right about the lack of confidence being a barrier to getting a job. When they first split Dh set up a part time job in shop for her though one of his clients but she turned it down.

She has sent through several messages to us both asking for the extra money only until she gets a job as "we owe her" so I think she's pretty deep in the shit as she now only receives cb and cm plus her dps half of expenses.

We have both agreed not to because the kids want for nothing, the extra money wouldn't be used for their expenses but hers. I used to pity her a bit but now I'm angry! She hides behind the kids saying that they NEED her to be at home and she has made so many sacrifices for all of us and we should be grateful.

Honestly this woman has no shame, when the kids are at school, what does she do all day? We have them for half the holidays so that's not really an excuse. We would help pay for childcare, so again not an excuse.

She simply DOESN'T WANT TO WORK. Dd2 is 8. She has been in full time school for 3 years. Before that in preschool 3 days a week, paid for by us as ex "needed a break"

Why do I bother even trying with her?

[Techway]

OP, your Dh seems compassionate and that is very positive. I imagine her upset is genuine.

I know everyone says get a job but she has said she is trying. No doubt she has zero confidence which is a shame given she must be early 30s only.

Hopefully she will get herself sorted and this might be the "shove" she needs.

Your focus on the children is positive and refreshing.

[HillAreas]

It is an assumption if you think the only way the children can benefit is if the money is given to the RP.

[cstaff]

@camerbertit
So if the rp has a new partner move in who is on big money should the nrp's cms payments be cut because that is the same thing in reverse.

[CamembertIt]

Not assuming any such thing, @HillAreas.

However, any such additional spending, following a fair maintenance assessment, would then be at the discretion of the NRP.

[user163578742]

So she's 30ish and never worked, no experience of the workplace? I don't envy her. That is a hurdle.

[HillAreas]

@CamembertIt
Why should it be assumed that only the RP is capable of spending money on their children?

[CamembertIt]

Can see that problem. Then I think there should be a calculation based firstly on the nrp's income, giving the minimum amount to be paid (like we have now) but which is then adjusted upwards based on the nrp's outgoings. Why should a NRP living with a new partner benefit from the inflated amount of disposable income he/she now has due to halved or reduced outgoings, without some of that going towards their children?

[lyralalala]

So I think that CMS should never ask for income details of a new partner but SHOULD ask for the paying parent's outgoings and the paying parent should also have to disclose any changes to his or her circumstances which result in his outgoings increasing or decreasing - a new partner with an income moving in would certainly result in reduced outgoings.

Giving NRP's an amount to pay based on their housing costs used to happen

It resulted in a lot of feckless NRP's taking the absolute piss with their housings costs

A lot of people could live in bigger houses in nicer areas if they didn't pay toward their kids. Which is exactly what happened

[Frankola]

Get a formal agreement in place with CMS. Then tell her that's what shes entitled to and that's what shes getting.

[HillAreas]

It’s an interesting argument. If I were an RP, I’m not sure I’d be happy with the choices of another woman having knock on effects to my household income - up or down. Maybe a higher rate of CM would be better to iron it out? Then it’s just like post tax income really, and you work out your outgoings and disposable income around what you have. Your proposal just seems a bit chaotic.
And if also assumes that the NRP wouldn’t spend the extra money on the child on his own time. NRP still has to run a home/car large enough to accommodate the child, may even want to treat his child to days out or some new clothes to keep at his house occasionally. My DH pays way over the CMS level of support, because he wants to and because he can. DSD still costs us several hundred pounds of running costs per month on top, even though she doesn’t live here full time. I’ve never exactly totted it up because it doesn’t matter, our costs are what they are, but don’t make the mistake of thinking maintenance is all an NRP provides for his child.
Moral husks who think paying for their own child is beneath them excepted, of course.

[TheFormidableMrsC]

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Just to give a comparison, I am a SAHM and that is because I am a carer for my son. I manage, just, on the benefits I receive (desperate to get out of this, not possible at the moment, 25 year City career down the drain when I had son before anybody says anything!). My ex-h and his delightful sidekick who have more than enough money arrange their business and their finances to ensure that I receive £100 a month maintenance for our DS. £100. That's it. They laugh in my face. I would give anything for them to be as reasonable and generous as you and your DH are. She is taking the piss, utterly walking all over you. She appears to be expecting you to support her, the children and her partner and now wants double? My response to that would be "we feel we do enough, we will always make sure the kids are amply provided for, however, if you prefer to start a CMS assessment then please go ahead". Does she realise that if you stuck to a CMS assessment then she would be far worse off? There really is no reason for her not to work, even part time, with school age children unless there are caring responsibilities or additional needs that might impact on that possibility. It seems that is not the case. Please stand firm on this.

[cstaff]

@camerbertit
If your point was put into practice it should work both ways ie if the rp invites her partner to move in then his income should be taken into account also. I am not necessarily agreeing with you but you can't have it every which way which is probably why this is not used in practice. It is just not practical. The responsibility is on the parents to provide for their children.

[IdontGetIt29]

I think most of her benefits have been reduced because her DP now lives with them. But he has his own expenses including cm for his son, so I don't think he has matched what she was receiving in benefits

Can you not see what shes done here?? She knew full well her benefits would decrease if her partner moved in, but it doesnt matter if they are reduced because exp and NewbieSM can foot the bill!

I dont think she would of let him move in if she wasnt counting on you two to cover the costs

Shes taking the mick

[CamembertIt]

Yes. That's why I said nrp should notify of any increase or decrease to their income and outgoings. If outgoings increase again, nrp has less disposable income so should pay less. Maintenance should be based on provable disposable income after priority expenses eg rent/mortgage, council tax, utility bills. If these expenses are shared with another person, this should be taken into account when calculating maintenance. At the moment, the CMS calculation only looks at income, allowing nrp to give amounts to rp that don't come anywhere close to meeting half the cost of bringing up a child. If a nrp finds themselves with more (or less!) disposable income due to any change in their circumstances, they should morally be expected to allocate some of that to the upkeep of their children - it's what RP have to do!

[HillAreas]

@CamembertIt
Your logic only holds water if it works both ways. Can the NRP cut the maintenance again when he splits with his partner or she goes part time or changes job or whatever?

[CamembertIt]

No - the RP's outgoings and income are irrelevant. The children are the paying parent's and (s)he should fund them to the best of his or her ability, as (s)he would if living in the family home and as the RP must all the time. So yes, absolutely if the paying parent currently pays at £100 based on his income and outgoings and his outgoings suddenly decrease when he moves in with a high earner, he should 100% have to put some of that newly disposable income towards the upkeep of his children.