Disengaging

[Blendingrock]

So, I notice that a lot of us have struggled with/are struggling with step children who don't listen, are disrespectful, take advantage, or flat out seem to hate us; and DH's who are making the situation worse by refusing to back their partners and/or see what's going on. I went through it, and found an article on disengaging which was really helpful so I thought I'd share it ... This is the updated version blendedfamilyfrappe.com/stepparenting-resources/the-disengaging-essay/ and this is the original (I think - it's been a long time since I referred to it) .....
www.steptogether.org/disengaging.html ..... I know it's controversial and not for everyone, but for me, it was one of those "lightbulb" moments and it really helped. If you're struggling, like I was, hang in there, you're not alone, and it does get better

[HipsterAssassin]

Perhaps I need to do more to please myself. Weekends away on my own etc.

Disengage from them all!!!!!!!!

[Notsohorriblehistory]

My advice would be: don't engage in the first place, much easier than disengaging.

Could you elaborate?
Because this seems an awful approach.
Essentially assume it will be shit and act accordingly? Potentially missing out on a loving and fulfilling relationship with your partner’s children

[Notsohorriblehistory]

Think it’s hit me as my ex and his gf have split and now contact and school runs that side have reduced. And now I can’t see BF as much

Genuine question.
So your ex’s girlfriend was presumably heavily involved with your children?

[swingofthings]

Essentially assume it will be shit and act accordingly?
desengaging doesn't have to be shit, you just don't get emotionally involved. It's actually a lot more natural to start disengaged and gradually engage a bit more as trust, respect and caring grows.

I think à lot of problems experienced by stepmums is that they expect too much too quickly and assume that their good intentions and efforts will yield a sense of gratefulness that will in turn yield respect and love. The reality is that kids rarely have the maturity to recogniseclet alone appreciate efforts. Their trust and respect is much more likely to grow with time.

I think this is why stepdad as a whole find it much easier. They are much less engaged from the start and have lower expectations.

[Notsohorriblehistory]

It's actually a lot more natural to start disengaged and gradually engage a bit more as trust, respect and caring grows

But if you are disengaged from the very outset, how on earth does truest, respect and care have a chance to grow?

[HipsterAssassin]

Yes Notso my exH’s gf was involved in the dc. Am not sure that is relevant. The key factor is whether step mums efforts and parenting is supported by dads and my exH’s relationship with his gf is nothing to do with me.

[HipsterAssassin]

Notso I think it grows VERY slowly, naturally, over time. Like, years.

[Livedandlearned2]

Trust, respect and care aren't always reciprocated in blended families unfortunately. A lot of time it is thrown back in the givers face.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

I definitely went for the gradual approach, I think that most of us do? However I didn’t start off ‘cold and distant’, that isn’t going to build any relationships. I just didn’t jump in and at no point did I expect a relationship based on gratitude!

Acknowledgement, a bit of tolerance and even a small willingness to get to know the step mum / step child is to me a good starting point.

I genuinely wish I hadn’t put 5 years into my step kids. They actively resisted me whatever I did. They are backed by their mother to reject me, and resentful natures anyway even amongst each other. There was no chance! I wish I’d seen that but then again, like OP and hipster and others, at least we do know we tried. We really did!

Now honestly I wouldn’t care if I never saw my step kids again. Now I never in a million years thought I’d feel that, never! I did love them, they were my partners kids why wouldn’t I care for them? Not anymore. Not that they give me or DS a single thought.

[swingofthings]

But if you are disengaged from the very outset, how on earth does truest, respect and care have a chance to grow?
As hipster said, it grows naturally the same way any relationships do. Most couple will say they have made changes if their behaviours, thoughts, attitude after being with their partner. That's a natural process as you share more time with each other. You might have become better organised, tidier, more out-going. However if this was imposed from the start of a relationship because it makes you a better person, the other would be deemed to be controlling and most likely the relationship wouldn't progress.

Yet SCs are often expected to change their normality when a SM comes into their lives because they need to adjust and its best for them. It is only natural that that they will consider as an imposed changed to suit the person driving that change and that they will grow a dislike of that person as a result.

I've been with oh 10 years and we were laughing recently at how we have become more similar as our relationship involved. We do things naturally that both of us would have rebelled against if it had been expected of us at the start. I think it is very similar with children. They are much more likely to change their ways when they trust and respect the person asking for these changes hence why they will do so more eagerly for their parents.

[Blendingrock]

Wow, so many similar stories on here - which is the beauty of forums like this!

DP and his family suggested I had a problem and to go to therapy! FFS Bananas can I slap him for you? Just out of curiosity, did your relationship survive? I hope so

Totally agree about things changing slowly over time. When we first became a blended family and after the initial "honeymoon" period was over for the kids (my middle SD apparently said to her Mother "You're not my Mum anymore, I have a new Mum!" I was horrified. Who says that to their mother?! But as I say, once the dust started to settle the acting up started. So we sat them down and said that we knew this was hard for everyone and that although DP and I had entered into this situation by choice, we knew they didn't, and that they didn't have a choice. That being said, we all had to live together, and that meant showing respect and tolerance. We were not their parents (said to each of the SK's), but we were the adults in charge and when they were at our place, our rules applied and had to be obeyed. What happened at the other parents place was up to the other parent, and their rules applied. Of course it's easy to say that, very hard to live it - especially with 5 kids between the ages of 7 and 11 who all have to live together; and DP and I initially having very different parenting styles.

5 years in and disengaging a little worked wonders for us. It forced me to stop bashing my head against a brick wall. I stopped resenting DP for not doing what I thought he should (and he stopped feeling like I was nagging him), so our relationship improved, and has kept going from strength to strength. I think it's fair to say if I hadn't disengaged, and he hadn't stepped up, our relationship may not have gone the distance.

For me the biggest light bulb moment with disengaging was realising that I didn't get into the relationship with DH because I wanted to parent his children. I got into it because I loved him. It wasn't up to me to "fix" his parenting style, he had to want the best for his children and act accordingly. If something didn't bother him enough to sort, I was allowed to let it go. It wasn't up to me to sort if he didn't want to.

The Jesuit's had a motto "Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man" and y'know; they had a point. As step-mums if we come into their lives when they are 7 or 8 or 9 or older, to a large extent the kids are what they are. We may be lucky and get some small improvements, but we may not. The important thing to remember is that all we can do is do our best, and hope that our DPs support our efforts. If they don't, it's not our fault.

For me, I've been lucky. DP and I have grown and changed together. We've had some truly terrible times which could have torn us apart had we allowed it to, and we've come out the other side. Although my eldest SD can't stand me and has basically cut all contact with the family, that's her choice. Nothing I can do about it so I've learnt to let it go (ok, honestly, I'm still working on that one!) but I do have a good relationship with my other 2 SK's and my 2 have a fantastic relationship with my DH. In fact a couple of years ago my daughter said that she considers DH to be her Dad not "just" her step Dad. :) :)

[LatentPhase]

That’s brilliant, Blendingrock it honestly gives me hope!

[TooSassy]

I love threads like this. I can quite honestly say that for me they have been a life saver. When I finally met my DP’s DC (and he mine), we were naive and expected it all eventually, over time to come together.

With my DC, the path has been easier as my ExH and I co-parent amicably, he has supported the intro of my DP. My DP and his EW have the polar opposite and as such his DC are under an immense amount of conflict and this has started to come out in their behaviour, Specifically towards me. I thought I was imagining it until my own DC noticed it and asked me about it.

My DP’s doesn’t see the his DC enough so when I raised that their behaviour wasn’t acceptable, he has tried little things but ultimately has admitted that he is a ‘Disney dad’ when they come to visit, and ‘what’s the problem with that?’

The net of that is that I have refused to move in together and that is how I have disengaged. My ex and I have very clear values on how to parent and discipline without it even risking contact arrangements. My DP does not have that, and unless he shows me that he is prepared and able to discipline his DC, put in boundaries (and as such risk upsetting them), I will not entangle my life with his and his DC any further.

I think any form of Disney parenting is a cop out, I think it’s false and not built on a foundation of open, honest communication. With boundaries and discipline. Aka real parenting.

I’m not prepared to share a home with someone whose parenting values (for his own reasons) are in such polar opposition to mine. I refuse to put that strain on myself and my DC. Or worst, get in a situation I cannot walk away from.

I’m so grateful for threads like this. They have opened my eyes to the reality of what may lie ahead. No naivety remains here. Thank you all so much!

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

I thought I was imagining it until my own DC noticed it and asked me about it.

I had the same. I also think we often as SMs just take a lot of flack and don’t feel we can say anything, that it’s up to us to just soak it up with a smile and carry on. It’s only when our own children notice and are affected, that we wake up to the realities. Glad you made a decision that is right for you toosassy.

I have disengaged now, well DSDs have disengaged from me! They never visit and blame me. Except, it’s like they can’t let go of the resentment. I wonder what, if anything, I can do about that?

For example, I went on holiday with my DSs, one is their half brother, one step. Just me and them, DP was working. When I came back, I had one DSD insist she have a day out with her half brother (not step one) and DP as she had missed out of holiday. (She’s an adult).

Another, I just did a very quiet birthday meal out for their half brother, Just me, two DSs and DP. I used to do all kids, plus DPs family, but it became very big, DSDs insisting their boyfriends came, and I had to pay, and my small DS has special needs and found it overwhelming. So, anyway, I’ve done the smaller meal for the last 2 years, and in that time not one DSD sends a text, card or present to DS.

I find it difficult to navigate as it seems that they still put a lot of pressure on DP, have totally cut off their step brother, ask to see half brother only with DP only out of the house (usually at their Mums). The disengaging has become very us and them with a big divide down the middle of my unit.

[Blendingrock]

Bananas there is nothing you can do to make them let go of the resentment. Either they'll come to it in their own time, or they won't. The harder you try to make them, the more deeply entrenched they'll become. It's hard because we all want everyone to like us, to get along, to be happy and a "proper" family unit. Sadly, it doesn't always work that way and there's really nothing you can do about it. All you can do is hold your head up high, carry on as you are, and leave DSD's to stew if that's what they want to do. You're not doing anything wrong, they are. As for the pressure they're putting your DP under, whilst you can be supportive of him, unfortunately he has to navigate that one on his own too.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

Thanks @blending I have too thin a skin for this caper!

That’s good advice. I think because I get, through sideways actions, pointed omissions like DS birthday or pointed inclusion / exclusions, like insisting on seeing DS at their Mums with DP - that there is something wrong in me just existing! DP always acts guilty too and ILs and DSDs have joined together to complain about me.

I noticed I’d been acting in a way that wouldn’t cause offence, except it always did. For example I am linked to DSDs in social media, so I hadn’t been putting up photos of me DP and DSs; never say anything negative, never question DPs spending money on them or time etc, just very background.

Now like you say I’ve got to just carry on and live our lives. I took the DSs on holiday myself as DP was just ‘too guilty’ to go without DSDs who would resent it. So I realized, my poor boys have never had a holiday together, so I booked and we had a lovely time. Wish I’d been brave enough to do these things before.

[LatentPhase]

Hi TooSassy I remember you from the dating threads a few years ago!

Just out of interest how old are all the dc and how often does he see his dc?

And how did your discussion about your differing parenting styles go?

My DP admits he and is wife are ‘failing’ his dd but don’t seem to do anything. I wish it were different but it isn’t. Am fascinated by the Disney Dad phenomenon.

Good for you for putting yourself and your dc first.

[LatentPhase]

His ex wife! (well nearly, Decree Nisi stage..)

[TooSassy]

Bananas, thats so funny. It's exactly what I have started to do. Book things for not only my DC and myself but also for me and my friends to start travelling etc again. I think if you can create that healthy divide without resentment/ guilt, then it's a much better place for everyone.

The reality of blended families, I have come to realise, is that unless all four parents are prepared to work together (your ex and the other ex), then it becomes so much harder to make work. In my situation 3 of us are working at it in a child focussed way but that simply is not enough.
If you can find a way to have a relationship together, but apart with the DC's then, possibly that is the way forward.

Latent, lol, I may be back on there at this rate. . I don't want to say the DC's ages, I am always very careful about what I put on here.

What did he reply re. parenting? Well his initial response was to be defensive; which I expected. Then when he'd got over that stupidity, he listened. The net net of it was that he pretty much said, who cares if I spoil them when they see me? I don't see them enough so if all they have is fun with me, I'm fine with that. Which I responded with, 'well thats fine when they are so young, but as they get older and they start to understand emotional manipulation, what are you going to do? Give in everytime? Not take a stance as a parent because you're not prepared to upset them?'. He had another argument against that one and I just switched off, because I had my answer.

Disney dads? I think the reality is they don't care about spoiling their kids. My DP is fighting for contact through the courts, so he lives for the here and now. He wants his DC to love him and be happy and have fun so that they want to keep seeing him and not say anything negative. Which I completely understand at some level. They are young, I agree, but not too young that he cannot start having age appropriate conversations with them; gently starting to put boundaries in there. About expectations and behaviour. I had to point out to him that on one day during contact recently his youngest all day had basically commanded all day 'daddy, I want'. And daddy had duly got. I watched as this carried on all day. Then I told him what he had allowed all day. He was instantaneously defensive. I shrugged and said fine and dropped it. A few weeks later for contact, the youngest started again. 'I want, I want, I want'. It was like the penny dropped with him and he pulled the youngest up on it, gently, prompting for the please which duly came from thereon in. It's not rocket science is it? But he hadn't seen it. In his eyes, his angels can do no wrong and his world pivots around them. I understand it but I also think it's intensely unhealthy.

I think my DP is quite honestly screwed. He has a hostile ex who uses anything she can against him for ammunition. So his response is (naturally) to not do anything to upset the apple cart with the kids. Now they are young, but I am fascinated by what he plans to do as they get older, more emotionally complex and much more challenging. Will he prepared to discipline them? Will he be prepared to say no? Will he be prepared to step up and be a real parent, knowing that it risks them saying 'daddy told me off, I don't want to go back?'. I don't think he will. Do I blame him? Not necessarily. Because I recognise his challenge. But the problem becomes when his situation is polar opposite to mine.

My ex and I co-parent effectively. We openly share all info on our DC and if they need disciplining, then the discipline is in place across both homes. If my DC were ever to say to me 'you've upset me, I'm off to live with daddy', I wouldn't bat an eyelid and would say, 'off you go then, remember to pack enough underpants'. But I can say that, knowing that I have a very secure/ healthy relationship with my DC and that I have an ex who will work with me, not against me.

I feel sorry for the disney dads but I've resolved one thing. Firstly, his DC's discipline is not an issue for me (unless it directly impacts me or my DC). Secondly, he needs to figure out what parenting for him looks like, it is not my job to tell him how he should parent. That's for him to decide and implement. Knowing he will live with the results. Right now his ex and he are on track to create two emotionally unbalanced children who think the world rotates around them.

It's for them to figure out, not for me. If it continues, my DC and I will gradually withdraw from it all. I really cannot tolerate rude behaviour that is not followed up by a gentle, age appropriate conversation. His DC are young but I had been gently disciplining for years by their age. He's totally copping out as a parent, but like I like to say. His circus. His monkeys.

[TooSassy]

I should add, he's only copping out as a parent on this one front (that sounded harsh). In all other regards, he is an amazing dad. He really is and his DC adore him. I just worry, for him and for them. He has a right to have a voice as a parent and children respect boundaries and discipline. But if he doesn't start to implement them now. By the time he realises its needed and starts to see real behavioural issues, he will have left it too late.

And, fundamentally? None of this is my problem.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

Now they are young, but I am fascinated by what he plans to do as they get older, more emotionally complex and much more challenging. toosassy your experiences are very interesting, as is your thoughts on Disney Dads. Very like my DP, he just loves his daughters so much he let them do what they wanted. Yet they lived with us most of the time, so it was chaos.

I can tell you how them growing into adults has gone for us.
DSD1 who treated me and eldest very rudely for years, moved out to her Mums aged 18, after I finally said you have to stop ignoring half the household. DP let her move out, sided with her, shouted at me, resented me for weeks and we broke up over it for a while. DSD then wanted to move back in, but that’s another story! Anyway, DP had a honeymoon type period with DSD where they went for evenings out, lots of even more Disneying, (to make up for me I think!) He got DSD a place at Uni, ferried her there every day, bought all books etc. She started getting very stroppy with DP, making him wait for ages while he gave her lifts etc. Still refused to visit us. DP saw her only at her mums house. Within a year she’d stopped going to Uni. Her mum at this point went mad, called in DP. DSD got a job after 6 months working 4 hours a week. Four years on, DSD is still working a day a week, living at her Mums. She still refuses to come around, when I invite her she ignores me. She and DP speak occasionally but that’s it.

DSD2 always more considerate. Contributes. Nice to me. Never had a problem, she was never rude. DP did not Disney her as she was expected to look after the others. However since DSD1 decided not to visit, she never visits either. She’s the only one who does seem to appreciate DP though, but still expects lifts but to be fair gives back. Very bright, on very good Uni course doing well.

DSD3 depends on DSD2. Disneyed a LOT. DPs Ex still calls her ‘their baby’ to DP. She stopped visiting as DP asked her to pay some attention to our young son, who she totally ignores. DP felt awful and has never asked them to do anything for our son again. I felt that DSD3 was started to trust and respond to me, until she stopped visiting, and now she has zero interest. She’s nearly 18 but not happy, gets her own way but doesn’t even know I think what her way is, just follows DSD who has some structure in her life (ie not Disney). Has periods of having her Dad do everything, then ignoring him for weeks even though she has daily lifts and money.

The girls do loads for and with their mother however. More than DP, despite her not doing the bulk of parenting when they were teenagers. She is much clearer about what she wants from them, and enjoys all the nice bits, graduation dinners, Christmas, lunches out. DP does not get those.

I can see that need to be loved. He’s done that with our son, who has special needs and the effects of ‘letting him do what he wants’ were awful. DP would be letting extreme behaviours go unchallenged and as a result I do all discipline. DP has begun to get overly invested in our DS compared to his older girls, I think because in the most part, they give nothing back to him, despite years of him spoiling them.

[TooSassy]

Christ bananas and this is why I find these threads so sobering. Do these parents have any idea of the damage being done to these kids?

My Dp’s Youngest, a few weeks ago told her Mum an outright lie to get dropped off for contact early (DP’s ex is the type who will sit in the car and count the minutes until she has to drop the DC off). It’s clear the DC didn’t want to wait in the car and so at her young age has figured out a way to lie so that she can get her way.

My DP told me the story that evening, proud that his DC had wanted to see him sooner. I kid you not, I got chills. I was silent and he asked me why. So I told him straight. I said your very young child has learned that in order to get what she wants. She can lie. And you were happy. Don’t be surprised when she goes to your ex and does the same, because the two of you are reinforcing these behaviours.

I that situation, I would have gently told my DC that in future, I wouldn’t want little porky pies told but I’d expect them to be honest and say ‘we don’t want to wait in the car, we want to go inside.’ And that that is what mummy and daddy prefer. But his challenge is he is dealing with an ex who wouldn’t support or reward that honesty so the kids are learning to lie.

They have no idea about the weapons of mass destruction they are raising if this continues. Deeply sad.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

Toosassy that is very spookily similar to us too.

That lie, and the fact that your DP actually liked and was proud of it, shows how far off the mark things start to go. Especially when it was a firm praising if his DD lying to her own mother, as your DP felt it made him be the favoured one.

Sorry to hark back to my own experiences, the lying in my DSDs was absolutely shocking. I didn’t think it was common, but you read it time after time on the step parenting boards. It is so true you are nurturing desctructive behaviour. Very dangerous.

Eldest DSD told a HUGE lie. I can’t be specific, as it would be too outing. However it meant that she put the health of herself and a child in jeopardy and social services were called by doctors. I believe that she did it to punish both of her parents - she only told them the lie, and others the truth, as she was very angry with them at the time. I was shocked and very worried about her ability to do this. However both parents totally brushed the seriousness of it under the carpet.

Even DSD2 told me a lie, one of several smaller ones, said she was going into town but in fact was using her Mums house to meet a boy, and had an awkward and bad experience. That was one of the first times I felt like I had a positive role as a SM, she was under my care at the time, not her parents, so I was able to talk to her directly. I had a good chat about lying, as well as the other chat about whether she was okay etc - I said that under my roof I wanted no lies. She really seemed to get it, she said to DP that of her parents, she was most upset about disappointing me as I was so nice to her.

Small things, big things, lying is being comfortable with deception, manipulation and punishing others. It’s terrible to learn!

[MistressDeeCee]

I think a lot of problems experienced by stepmums is that they expect too much too quickly and assume that their good intentions and efforts will yield a sense of gratefulness that will in turn yield respect and love

I think this is true.

I like my Stepmum get on with her well enough but when I was younger she got on my bloody nerves.

Just, too keen. I already have a mum. & also felt I couldn't ever see my dad without her there..as if everything I chatted about to him, she had to hear. There's stuff I talk about with my parents I don't choose to tell anyone else.

Fine if you're my dad's partner I don't mind but don't present yourself to me as 'Im here now, a new person so you have to take me on board. I don't, and didn't.

She calmed all that down as years went by so we're ok now

Too many women are just too competitive. Note from this thread and similar, it's ALWAYS girls they complain about. & It's done as if a girl is an equal adversary to a woman. Girls don't have the life experience and wisdom that women do, but allowance not really made for that.

You'd think no-one has a stepson. Too busy trying to master the girl and ignore or spoil the boy...

I have 3 brothers my stepmum wasn't interested in them, was always on my & sister's back as if it was a challenge to her. God knows what she expected her prize to be.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

@mistress definitely not true on my part and I guess many others. I also had a step parent who gave me no space and was over involved at the start, so I particularly did not do this with my step kids.

I don’t think anyone on this thread is expecting gratitude either.

Yes I do think my older DSDs were competitive with me, not younger ones. I was not trying to compete to be the adult and parent, I was the adult and a parent! Just reality. Only we adults paid the bills etc. I don’t have step sons. Although I think it can be harder for teenage girls to accept a SM. My DS accepts my DP.

I think from your post, so your SM tried too hard at first, but she did try! And adjusted obviously as time went on. What’s so terrible about that?!