Disengaging

[Blendingrock]

So, I notice that a lot of us have struggled with/are struggling with step children who don't listen, are disrespectful, take advantage, or flat out seem to hate us; and DH's who are making the situation worse by refusing to back their partners and/or see what's going on. I went through it, and found an article on disengaging which was really helpful so I thought I'd share it ... This is the updated version blendedfamilyfrappe.com/stepparenting-resources/the-disengaging-essay/ and this is the original (I think - it's been a long time since I referred to it) .....
www.steptogether.org/disengaging.html ..... I know it's controversial and not for everyone, but for me, it was one of those "lightbulb" moments and it really helped. If you're struggling, like I was, hang in there, you're not alone, and it does get better

[Buddyblu]

Sorry think I've posted in the wrong place

[Buddyblu]

New to 'step-parenting'. Help!

I met my partner just over one year ago. I don't know if I want children and I was adamant I wouldn't meet his two children (5/7) till I was ready if ever. I was convinced he was just a bit of fun and freely told him so. He has them the majority of the week and I just saw him when he didn't. Suited me fine but he wanted more. I eventually gave in and agreed to meet them as daddy's friend. And it went really really well. We got on really really well. We took things very slow and they started having sleep overs at mine. I could see clearly that when they was with Mom they was neglected as could partner. He started having them more which again I was fine with. I saw them couple times a week as daddy's friend and then boom! They are pretty much with me 5/6 days a week. If I'm not working they are with me. They see there mom the others days and I see my partner alone then. In my opinion I feel I've been dropped in as second mom and maybe my partner wanted this. But what if I don't? He's a very good dad he dotes on them and does everything he should. They now have bedrooms at my house, I do there shopping, washing and clothes. But now they are my comfy with me there behaviour has changed, the girl who is now 6 is so rude and nasty. But she's 6. She just needs teaching, and I do. I reward and show by example. I'm not a shouter so I never shout but I can get my point across. But then for example if she is acting like that when we are out all together I expect dad to say something to discipline but he doesnt. He admits he over compensates and asked me to do it as they respond better. So I tried, they just look at me and then jump all over him and he just cuddles them and I'm sat like the evil witch. We will all start sitting together for example at the table and before you know it them three are one side and I'm the other and it hurts. It makes me feel and look awful. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I don't have children but I look after them like my own, but I make it clear I'm daddy's partner not there mom. I'm positive about mom to them I do everything I think is right. Am I signing myself up to a life of misery? I love him aNd care alot about his children and I do want it to work. I want to include them on everything but I feel I'm always the bad guy. The mom bad mouths me constantly. Should I just give up now? Before it gets too deep.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

Most of the shit that happens in step relationship happen in non step relationship there just aren’t the question marks there about the motives or whether the people love each other or not, when you tell your dc off no one questions why , it’s just accepted you love your child and want the best for them, same for a child

This is very true. It’s very different from a parenting relationship, so much it the advice ‘it’s just teenagers’ isn’t helpful or true. There’s another oppressive layer to being a step parent. I’ve told my DSD to tidy her room, and it’s turned into a huge deal about whether I have the authority, whether I can because I’m not her mum, whether it’s fair of me, whether it’s any of my business, whether I’m picking on her against my own children, whether it’s even my house anyway....

No just tidy your room!

[L4kbe]

Step parent relationships for the child and for the step parent are very difficult , everything that is said or done has a ?mark against it , what I mean by that is that people around, dp or the sp or sc themselves questions the motives for everything that is said or done ,”is she punishing her because she’s not hers” “is she rude to her because it’s not her real mum”. The fact is that step parent or not it’s bloody hard raising kids full stop !! Most of the shit that happens in step relationship happen in non step relationship there just aren’t the question marks there about the motives or whether the people love each other or not, when you tell your dc off no one questions why , it’s just accepted you love your child and want the best for them, same for a child , if a stroppy teenager is acting up and back chatting no one questions why or accuses the child of not loving their parents, It’s something that I’ve always struggled with because when I was being strict about what dad was wearing , going, doing I always felt people, should and her thought I was just being a wicked stepmother! When in reality I just love her and wanted the best for her. I think everyone can see now my dc is 13 and I’m exactly the same with her that my motives were pure.

[Blendingrock]

won’t they feel it’s unfair and they are being treated differently
Not at all, assuming you treat them all the same, and expect everyone to obey the rules, be respectful etc regardless of whether they are blood or step. It also assumes that what you are expecting of your step kids is no different to what you expect of your own, and is not unreasonable.

The difference with your step kids is that you don't have the automatic unconditional love you have for your own kids, and they are often struggling to get their heads around being torn between loyalty to their mother, and liking the step mother. Your step kids also don't have the default setting of loyalty and obedience to you that they do to their parents.

The other difference is that as a step parent you cannot effectively discipline your step kids if your partner (their Dad) isn't backing you 100% AND dishing out the discipline too. That's where the disengaging comes in, because it forces your partner to step up, and it makes your step kids realise that you are not a monster, you are person who deserves respect and politeness like anyone else.

The problem with a lot of relationships is that the guys tend to bury their heads in the sand when problems arise and leave their partners, the step mum, to do all the hard work. That leads to hurt and sometimes the total break down of relationships. Of course they freak out when they can't pass the buck any more - wouldn't you?

Disengaging is about acknowledging that there may be different styles in parenting, but BOTH partners have to parent. It's about step parents standing up and saying that yes you care, and yes you will be there for them, but you are not prepared to be a scape goat, or a door mat. It's about saying that you have the right to be treated with respect in your own home and not with disdain. It's about saying you want to be part of the good times as well as the bad times and that you want your partner to be an equal partner in the parenting relationship, not another child/problem to be dealt with. It's about saying you'll accept the blame for cr*ap that's your fault, but you won't take on board other people's.

Lastly it's about the kids learning that they don't have to like you, or you them, but you do have to live together, and that means treating one another with respect. They wouldn't treat their teacher or some random person in the street like that (you hope!), so why should they think it's acceptable to treat you that way? When they grow up and go to work/out flatting they will have to deal with people they don't necessarily like. Doesn't mean they can be rude to them (well ok, some people never learn that and are just mean rotten people all their lives but you want to avoid them coming from YOUR house if you can!)

[Justcallmestep]

Oh spangly why does this seem a nightmare? And how do you get the balance between your child and your step child? I mean won’t they feel it’s unfair and they are being treated differently? I don’t know if disengaging is good or
Bad...

[Justcallmestep]

Too sassy- how has this been for your relationship?

[Justcallmestep]

I’m not quite sure what to make of this. I think I need a re read. I sort of get it- but it also looks like it could be quite damaging. Imagine something that meant to the world to you - more than anything in the world and you partner sort of switched that off and wasn’t part of it? Wouldn’t it make you feel hurt?

I’m considering this mind you- and I know for a fact he will freak the freak out ....

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

@toosassy I’m sorry that sounds tougher than I’d realised. It’s more damage limitation I guess, however at least you have taken action to preserve and protect your relationship and to not make things worse with your DSCs.

I really sympathize with so much of what you are going through. My DP also was very unsympathetic to my taking a back seat; like you he had ‘no problem’ with his step son, my DS, because my DS was open and warm towards him. I agree if your step children resent you and don’t want to be around you, you have to step back, trying harder will not work. My DSCs have little or no interest either, so they had no problem with me stepping back. That IS the adult thing to do. I do hope your DP sees things from your POV. It’s not your fault and you are doing your best. The reality is there. I think sometimes DPs who are Disney are also Disney about the step mums role, thinking it will all be wonderful. Yet when problems occur, having no framework to improve the situation.

@rosesared another evil step mother! There are so many of us! You seem to have found a way of having a more or less positive relationship with your DSCs which sounds brilliant. I know it must be hard still. Having other kids really brings another very strong reason for some kind of family harmony. Otherwise the younger child grows up in a tense and damaging home - no good! Even though my DSD punished me by moving out, I’ll never regret asking her to stop ignoring me and DS, the atmosphere in the house was horrible on and off for months. I just couldn’t have my younger son growing up in all that tension.

@blendingrock thanks for starting this thread, it’s a big relief to know that others are going through similar. Although it’s a bit sad really, so many step families now and although some are lucky enough to work, far too many have big problems which is bound to affect the kids too. We do need love, support and understanding!

[Blendingrock]

constantly adjust based on what mood they are in is just too much
a divided household is very tense.
Heck yes, it's an incredibly draining way to live and impossible to sustain.

Toosassy Sounds like your DP can't/won't see things from your perspective, it's all about him. I don't intend that to sound mean, but from experience sometimes we have to sit our men down and say that whilst we understand things are stressful and that we want to support them, and their children and be there for them, and him; we are only human and sometimes we need them to take a step back and realise how everything is affecting us. We need love, support and understanding too.

I hope you guys find a way forward.

[Rosesared]

Evil stepmum of 10 years. 16yr and 14yr DSS and I now have my very own little 5month old. Stepmums are NOT for stepping on. My 2SS know that. They treat their mum n dad like sh!t sometimes, but they know I have rules and boundaries...and therefore love them dearly. I disengage at least once every 2yrs! Having my own DC certainly makes me see things differently. I don't want her to be subject to "atmosphere" and disrespect and shouting. So just this evening I gathered all in the kitchen and initiated a conversation...using some (quite a bit, actually) of the wording of the Disengagement essay.
Step parenting is one of the hardest things ever. It takes work. It's an immense rollercoaster.

[TooSassy]

I’m not entirely sure that disengaging works and brings harmony. Honestly speaking I think my DP finds my approach very hard and doesn’t understand why I don’t engage more with his DC’s. All I know is that I am at my limit with supporting him through his ongoing court battles over contact. To then expect me to have the capacity and patience to support his DC through their conflict and constantly adjust based on what mood they are in is just too much. They resent me, they don’t want me around for contact and that’s very clear.

My DP thinks I should be able to see that they are young DC who are being manipulated and constantly be prepared to work at it and be ‘the adult’. I’ve told him that’s easy for him to say given that my DC are consistent, engaged and welcoming.

Trust me, it’s far from harmonious in my relationship at the moment. We’re hanging by a thread based on all of this. It shouldn’t be this hard.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

It’s certainly really useful to rethink about disengagement as a way of coping. It’s very interesting to hear how others have coped. It’s also very positive to see that this has resulted in some kind of harmony for many, @toosassy and @blending

I don’t know if I’m summarizing this well, but it seems that:

Benefits of Disengagement

• disengagement is necessary if parenting styles are too different. Usually when the father is Disney Dad!
  
• disengaging can be a way of reducing resentment and conflict when DSCs do not accept a step parent.
  
• it can be a way of preserving the mental wellbeing of SM!
  
• it can be a way of stopping being a doormat. It may enhance a relationship with steps as they can’t take the SM for granted.
  

Possible Downsides

• it’s not something that works in the beginning of a relationship. This is the other side to a common criticism of SMS - that they are cold and don’t want step kids in their life. However as @mistress has pointed out, a respectful distance and taking time with step kids is good, they need to preserve their fathers one to one time.
  
• in my own case, this bought further resentment from DSCs and DP who then accused me of being too distant. Even though they didn’t want me anyway. It can become ‘another stick to beat SM’
  
• it can be giving up on any relationship with DSCs.
  
• it is difficult to put into practice when you live together and have a child together, a divided household is very tense.

[TooSassy]

I’m enjoying this thread as it hasn’t descended into vitriol and I hope it doesn’t. I find every perspective given here so valuable and I thank everyone for sharing. It’s how I learn and get perspective so thank you.

Swing thank you for your comments. I completely agree with you. There is nothing worse than telling someone how to parent or coming across as the know it all. My DP is the parent of his DC’s, not me. At no point do I think I am and nor do I think I fulfil any role as a ‘parent’ for his Dc’s Anymore than he does mine. I’ve always been very clear that at best my DC and him form their own relationship (whatever that is) but in time maybe he becomes a trusted adult they can lean on/ turn too. I have zero expectation from my DP’s DC’s as I understand that if they are feeling anyform of conflict, my being ‘full on’ will just make it worse. I treat them the way I would if any of my friends DC’s were over. Kind, welcoming and warm.

I never offer my opinion to DP any longer and only give it if he asks when we are alone. If he doesn’t want my blunt view on the implications of rewarding DC’s lying then he shouldn’t ask. If he then doesn’t agree with it, that’s no skin off my nose. I know how my ex and I parent our DC and that is all that matters to me.

I guess that’s the crux of this thread. Disengaging. I have disengaged massively, my DP isn’t happy about it but it strikes me that he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too, without realising that it’s not what his DC want. I absent myself from the majority of contact now and I think it’s working better for everyone.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

I was asking you as an adult @mistress

However this feels very side tracked, argumentative and not very productive. And not about the initial post.

[MistressDeeCee]

Banana come on..all the questions and nuance you are bringing out - do you really think a CHILD is analysing in this way? They can't, can they?

It does again highlight that despite there being both good and bad stepmothers, there are far too many who just don't listen - they have their own agenda and can't see beyond that.

You can't apply adult thinking methods to children, that must surely be obvious.

You can't and shouldn't aim to force children to be different just because you've come along.

My SM wasn't coming from a 'good place' - instead of just getting on with her relationship with my dad, she wanted to be seen as the 'new and improved better mum', when there was no need for that at all. That was her own agenda. I probably mentioned she wasn't the same re my brothers.

Whether my mother was perfect or not had nothing to do with it - I have a mother. I wasn't looking for another one. Dad is just my dad, as he's always been.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

I have to say all I hear is anger at SMs from posters who have not actually been through a SM tricky experiences. They are often talking about their own step mothers. Or their partner’s wife. It illustrates to me how hard it is for step mums, they are shouted down for having a voice anywhere and the frustration is extreme.

However this thread has been really positive, it’s very, very helpful to get other views that have so many constructive insights.

@mistress your SM made a mistake however she did not sound like she was being mean, she tried, she over did it, she did not give you enough space, she adjusted as you said, so she must have listened to your feelings. She must have cared about you? Did your own mother be perfect always? Do you have any compassion for your SM knowing, now as an adult, that it was not easy to know what to do as a SM? Do you think, if she could have posted here on MN and got other SMs saying it’s okay, you are not a witch, you need to stand back and give her time with her Dad that ultimate that would have helped you as the child?

I have two step parents myself, and it has not been easy. SD did, like yours @mistress, expect a relationship overnight, which did not go down well with me at all! So I do sympathize more than you may think. However, I recognized it was from a good place ultimately, and after a rocky few years, we have had a life long bond. All it took from me was to see that he was human, and let go of any resentment. It was my parents job to manage this ultimately anyway. My SD died recently, I did the eulogy, and I very, very much miss him, he enriched my life enormously. If I had held on to my initial anger, ignored him, it would now be too late.

It’s trying to navigate being a SM in a vacuum which is damaging. Thank goodness for some productive spaces, like this thread. @blending @toosassy and others. Advice I’m taking on board!

[swingofthings]

What mistress is trying to say is I think is the emotional involvement in parenting. TooSassy last post illustrate this well, the critical emotional involvement that her OH is raising his kids wrongly and judgment that the kids will suffer/grow up badly as a result.

I think it's this involvement that partners of SP sees as suffocating. It is refenced as being a Disney dad, which really is a very condescending judgement on how they choose to parent. My dad was the epitom of what is referred as a Disney dad. He adored me, spoilt me rotten, and rarely disciplined me. Did I turn into a brat? Not at all on the opposite, I've turned into a much more humble and caring individual than my half sister, and those are the words of my SM. Yet she too was horrified by the leniency my dad applied to his relationship with me.

Similarly my best friend's dad was a complete Disney dad yet happily married to her mum. She had 3 siblings and mum was the disciplinarian whilst her dad was the softie and spoilt all the kids rotten. 1 of the siblings grow up with a chip on his shoulder, the other 3, including my friend are lovely, undemanding people.

Yes, some kids with relaxed parents will grow up brats with a sense of entitlement but not all. What I've learned since I had kids is that it is not half as easy to guess how certain kids will turn out as teenagers and young adults as we believe when they are little.

As a parent, there is nothing worse than others making you feel belittled for how we chose to bring up your kids. That's why in recomposé family, much more emphasis should be placed at the start of a relationship to identify whether you and new boyfriend share similar values, principles and disciplinary methods or if not being prepared to not engage much emotionally.

I agree with TooSassy though about doing things for yourself. OH made it clear when we got together that he wanted to continue going away with his friends as he had done for many years. Similarly, I wanted to continue to take my kids away as we'd done every year since they were little. This works very well. It's been hard for my OH to become a step dad and it's important for him to still to have a break from it and remember himself as a non parent. Similarly, it has not been easy for my kids either and it is important for them to still have devoted time from me only because although they've never said it, I know I am different with them when my OH is not there.

I know my oh often feels that I'm not strict enough and I understand his perspective but I don't agree with it. Yes my ds is a bit too much like a lazy teenagers but the difference between oh and I is that I strongly believe that it is a phase like every typical stage he's been through and yet somehow always got out off, and will turned into a responsible and pleasant adult as I have whereas my OH has it in his head that he is on the way to turn into a bum. I guess only time will know who is right.

[LatentPhase]

you’d think no one has a stepson

Yes. I have noticed this, too, so many more issues here about DSD’s!

I wonder why that is.

[MistressDeeCee]

What’s so terrible about that?!

Bananas - I already had a mother. Which means - don't steamroll me. Be my dad's partner, that's all.

& don't mention my mum.

That's what was terrible to me. But adults have their own agenda and cloth ears when it comes to childrens' views far too often. That's why they hit problems.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

@mistress definitely not true on my part and I guess many others. I also had a step parent who gave me no space and was over involved at the start, so I particularly did not do this with my step kids.

I don’t think anyone on this thread is expecting gratitude either.

Yes I do think my older DSDs were competitive with me, not younger ones. I was not trying to compete to be the adult and parent, I was the adult and a parent! Just reality. Only we adults paid the bills etc. I don’t have step sons. Although I think it can be harder for teenage girls to accept a SM. My DS accepts my DP.

I think from your post, so your SM tried too hard at first, but she did try! And adjusted obviously as time went on. What’s so terrible about that?!

[MistressDeeCee]

I think a lot of problems experienced by stepmums is that they expect too much too quickly and assume that their good intentions and efforts will yield a sense of gratefulness that will in turn yield respect and love

I think this is true.

I like my Stepmum get on with her well enough but when I was younger she got on my bloody nerves.

Just, too keen. I already have a mum. & also felt I couldn't ever see my dad without her there..as if everything I chatted about to him, she had to hear. There's stuff I talk about with my parents I don't choose to tell anyone else.

Fine if you're my dad's partner I don't mind but don't present yourself to me as 'Im here now, a new person so you have to take me on board. I don't, and didn't.

She calmed all that down as years went by so we're ok now

Too many women are just too competitive. Note from this thread and similar, it's ALWAYS girls they complain about. & It's done as if a girl is an equal adversary to a woman. Girls don't have the life experience and wisdom that women do, but allowance not really made for that.

You'd think no-one has a stepson. Too busy trying to master the girl and ignore or spoil the boy...

I have 3 brothers my stepmum wasn't interested in them, was always on my & sister's back as if it was a challenge to her. God knows what she expected her prize to be.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

Toosassy that is very spookily similar to us too.

That lie, and the fact that your DP actually liked and was proud of it, shows how far off the mark things start to go. Especially when it was a firm praising if his DD lying to her own mother, as your DP felt it made him be the favoured one.

Sorry to hark back to my own experiences, the lying in my DSDs was absolutely shocking. I didn’t think it was common, but you read it time after time on the step parenting boards. It is so true you are nurturing desctructive behaviour. Very dangerous.

Eldest DSD told a HUGE lie. I can’t be specific, as it would be too outing. However it meant that she put the health of herself and a child in jeopardy and social services were called by doctors. I believe that she did it to punish both of her parents - she only told them the lie, and others the truth, as she was very angry with them at the time. I was shocked and very worried about her ability to do this. However both parents totally brushed the seriousness of it under the carpet.

Even DSD2 told me a lie, one of several smaller ones, said she was going into town but in fact was using her Mums house to meet a boy, and had an awkward and bad experience. That was one of the first times I felt like I had a positive role as a SM, she was under my care at the time, not her parents, so I was able to talk to her directly. I had a good chat about lying, as well as the other chat about whether she was okay etc - I said that under my roof I wanted no lies. She really seemed to get it, she said to DP that of her parents, she was most upset about disappointing me as I was so nice to her.

Small things, big things, lying is being comfortable with deception, manipulation and punishing others. It’s terrible to learn!

[TooSassy]

Christ bananas and this is why I find these threads so sobering. Do these parents have any idea of the damage being done to these kids?

My Dp’s Youngest, a few weeks ago told her Mum an outright lie to get dropped off for contact early (DP’s ex is the type who will sit in the car and count the minutes until she has to drop the DC off). It’s clear the DC didn’t want to wait in the car and so at her young age has figured out a way to lie so that she can get her way.

My DP told me the story that evening, proud that his DC had wanted to see him sooner. I kid you not, I got chills. I was silent and he asked me why. So I told him straight. I said your very young child has learned that in order to get what she wants. She can lie. And you were happy. Don’t be surprised when she goes to your ex and does the same, because the two of you are reinforcing these behaviours.

I that situation, I would have gently told my DC that in future, I wouldn’t want little porky pies told but I’d expect them to be honest and say ‘we don’t want to wait in the car, we want to go inside.’ And that that is what mummy and daddy prefer. But his challenge is he is dealing with an ex who wouldn’t support or reward that honesty so the kids are learning to lie.

They have no idea about the weapons of mass destruction they are raising if this continues. Deeply sad.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

Now they are young, but I am fascinated by what he plans to do as they get older, more emotionally complex and much more challenging. toosassy your experiences are very interesting, as is your thoughts on Disney Dads. Very like my DP, he just loves his daughters so much he let them do what they wanted. Yet they lived with us most of the time, so it was chaos.

I can tell you how them growing into adults has gone for us.
DSD1 who treated me and eldest very rudely for years, moved out to her Mums aged 18, after I finally said you have to stop ignoring half the household. DP let her move out, sided with her, shouted at me, resented me for weeks and we broke up over it for a while. DSD then wanted to move back in, but that’s another story! Anyway, DP had a honeymoon type period with DSD where they went for evenings out, lots of even more Disneying, (to make up for me I think!) He got DSD a place at Uni, ferried her there every day, bought all books etc. She started getting very stroppy with DP, making him wait for ages while he gave her lifts etc. Still refused to visit us. DP saw her only at her mums house. Within a year she’d stopped going to Uni. Her mum at this point went mad, called in DP. DSD got a job after 6 months working 4 hours a week. Four years on, DSD is still working a day a week, living at her Mums. She still refuses to come around, when I invite her she ignores me. She and DP speak occasionally but that’s it.

DSD2 always more considerate. Contributes. Nice to me. Never had a problem, she was never rude. DP did not Disney her as she was expected to look after the others. However since DSD1 decided not to visit, she never visits either. She’s the only one who does seem to appreciate DP though, but still expects lifts but to be fair gives back. Very bright, on very good Uni course doing well.

DSD3 depends on DSD2. Disneyed a LOT. DPs Ex still calls her ‘their baby’ to DP. She stopped visiting as DP asked her to pay some attention to our young son, who she totally ignores. DP felt awful and has never asked them to do anything for our son again. I felt that DSD3 was started to trust and respond to me, until she stopped visiting, and now she has zero interest. She’s nearly 18 but not happy, gets her own way but doesn’t even know I think what her way is, just follows DSD who has some structure in her life (ie not Disney). Has periods of having her Dad do everything, then ignoring him for weeks even though she has daily lifts and money.

The girls do loads for and with their mother however. More than DP, despite her not doing the bulk of parenting when they were teenagers. She is much clearer about what she wants from them, and enjoys all the nice bits, graduation dinners, Christmas, lunches out. DP does not get those.

I can see that need to be loved. He’s done that with our son, who has special needs and the effects of ‘letting him do what he wants’ were awful. DP would be letting extreme behaviours go unchallenged and as a result I do all discipline. DP has begun to get overly invested in our DS compared to his older girls, I think because in the most part, they give nothing back to him, despite years of him spoiling them.