Grown and not Grown??

[Wdigin2this]

What would other posters do in my position? DH has a fully grown-up child whom I've known for many years, since early teens. The child (calling them X) has been unlucky in that they don't earn much money and lives alone. However for many years X has been coming to my DH with requests for financial help, started small and boy, is it getting bigger, it appears we are now at the point where we are actually financing X's life......I mean right down to weekly grocery shopping! None of my DC have ever, or would ever ask for cash, if we see they're strughling we try to help, my DH is always willing to do this, but they rarely accept, as they are very independent.
It's a difficult topic for us to discuss, because a) it makes me angry to see him being treated like a cash cow, and b) because although he's admitted he's fed up with the situation, he gets defensive about X, (which I really do get) and changes the subject...but the fact remains, he still goes along with it! I really don't know how to speak to him about it, and he insists that I must NOT, under any circs discuss it with X! Help!!

[HormonalHeap]

If he's anything like mine, he won't hear of adjusting his will accordingly to reflect what she's already had. Swing a marriage is meant to be a partnership without secrets and where major decisions are made together irrespective of WHO earns the money.

My dh's sister needed to pay a long term debt recently that ran into double figures. Dh asked me if it was ok to help her. I said yes and thanked him for asking me- but I know without any doubt
that if it was one of his dcs I'd be none the wiser.

Wdigin I have to admit I shudder reading your posts sometimes as its like looking into my future- (no grandchildren yet). There'll always be people to say to you 'his business his children'- but I just don't agree.

[Wdigin2this]

Swing, you're right in so much as I'm prob better of not knowing, no she won't change, and yes I know I make him feel guilty! The annoying thing is his family are the only thing we ever argue about...but it's a big 'only' And here we are again only today, another visit....for guess what?
Hormonal...sorry to depress you!

[Bananasinpyjamas1]

I sympathise OP - my DP admitted to hiding texts and talking to his older daughters and felt that was evidence of things being 'oppressive' from me! I told him not to be dramatic - what he texts/phones is up to him.

But of course I know full well why - they are constantly asking him for money/lifts/whatever - they are both grown women and I don't even argue or say anything anymore. But he probably knows it isn't healthy. I turn a blind eye but the trouble is I think we do get the brunt of it as their partners - a kind of underlying fustration. I mean, if your partner is anything like mine he deserves daughters who are less selfish and actually show him a bit of kindness now and then. Sad isn't it?

[Wdigin2this]

Banana....you said it! Yes, I do feel I get the brunt of his disillusionment with his DD, he can't possibly take his frustration out on her, so who's obviously next in line??
My DH is a generous soul, and the whole family benefits from our ability to treat them occasionally, but this DD of his takes his generosity as a licence to live a life she could never afford to finance, and apparently feels entitled to it! You would not believe her resourcefulness in thinking up new scams!

[Bananasinpyjamas1]

OP I do feel for you! Even if we turn a blind eye, step back, not say a word, it affects our relationship because we are with someone who is being badly treated.

I can't tell you the number of times my DP has snapped at me or said he 'feels taken for granted' after a particularly fustrating conversation with his daughters or his ex (who is just as manipulative and he still falls for it!) But of course he never admits why, and when I ask he just clams up.

Your DPs daughters sound very manipulative, and greedy too. It was must be doubly hard to be their parent - because by not putting his foot down not only does he have daughter who doesn't appreciate him but also isn't particularly likeable if she is so greedy. I just can't imagine how that would eat you up inside - especially if you are a man with a daughter - seems to be the most guilty/blind combination as in my DP.

As parents they have put so much to their kids lives - and are kind andsupportive - they must end up thinking what is the point of all that sacrifice? I see a bitterness creeping into my DP but he is stubborn and just insists that 'he'll love his DCs unconditionally and why can't I see that' etc. Perhaps love has become being a bank account for some. Sad!

[Bananasinpyjamas1]

Sorry about the grammar... have a small child who often jumps on me!

[Wdigin2this]

Thank you Banana, your words are very supportive! I really don't know how we'll ever resolve this, and from what I'm seeing at the moment, we'll be paying for our own, and everyone else's Xmas gifts from DSD this year....AGAIN !!

[Bananasinpyjamas1]

I wonder whether accepting that he will spend money on this daughter - but suggesting more grown up alternative ways of giving and framing it in - 'of course it would be nice to help out with Xmas presents - but that will her siblings feel that you are being unfair - why don't you hel her with (substitute something that will promote that person being more giving or adult e.g. train fare to see her siblings... )

It just isn't going to change is it?! Whatever you do, say something, don't say anything - it will impact on you both. Perhaps some things are not resolvable... sigh!

[Wdigin2this]

Banana...[also sighing], I fear it is unresolvable, there's no chance of having the conversation you described because; evening, afternoon, morning, middle of the night...there is never a right time for him to consider talking about it, its always not now!!! Anyway, I'm thinking of emailing him, spelling out exactly how I feel, and see what happens? Can't get any worse!!

[HormonalHeap]

I've been told off today by a friend who usually gives wise advice. She told me that because dh is so lovely to me and my kids, I have to accept that the problems with his children comes with the territory of being with someone so kind and generous- that I can't have it both ways and that I should be more tolerant to the situation with his entitled kids. How would you feel about that advice op- I think it's easier said than done!

[Wdigin2this]

Well Hormonal, your friend is probably right! My DH is kind, generous, and good with my family, we have ups & downs like most couples, but his DD is our (well, my) main bone of contention! And even though I can see the situation is escalating out of control once again, I'm thinking...is it worth all the angst, stress, and unhappiness? I really wish I could just shrug it off, but you're right, easier said than done!

[Bananasinpyjamas1]

Maybe an email wouldn't be such a bad idea. The stress will be there even if you don't say anything. Maybe it could be carefully framed to say:
a) that ultimately it is his decision and that you will respect that
b) that your motive is because you love him, and you want him to have a good relationship with his daughter - but that you see this is harmed by an unhealthy dynamic
c) that you are concerned that your DSC is not learning what they need to learn in life - and may pass on these habits in her own life/family in a way that ultimately doesn't help her or anyone
d) that being a loving Dad means being a role model, showing what fairness and integrity is; being strong for kids; sometimes this means saying no.
e) that you feel that sometimes his fustration affects your relationship and you want to protect your relationship with him

You may have to accept that he goes ahead and does it anyway - maybe plan a few weekends away or nice days out during times she is being particularly 'pressurising' so that he has an escape and you don't let it drive a huge wedge between you. You are his safety net.

[Wdigin2this]

Banana,thank you, that is more or less how I'd planned to phrase it, (don't suppose 'She's been fleecing you for years, what are you going to do about it?' would go down too well)!!!
Tbh, we have a lot of time away, and I always see a look of relief in his face, when we put some distance between them!! I am afraid my resentment of the situation, it's ongoing escalation, and his obvious unhappiness with it, will drive a wedge between us....which is why I've been trying to get my head around ignoring it....not easy! Interesting, your point about me being a safety net!

[iamanintrovert]

Wow. I think that what he is doing is completely unacceptable. And disrespectful to you. As far as I understand, you are married and have been for some time. His daughter is a middle-aged mother herself, who is perfectly capable of holding down a job.

If I've got that right, there is no way on earth that it can be considered OK for him to spend what are essentially joint finances on something which he knows you disapprove of, secretly and long term! I'd say that you are both in your sixties. It's time to be planning for retirement and increasing health care needs.

You need to be firmer about this I think. It's also not fair to your DCs.

[Wdigin2this]

Iaman...you are right on every point, and I wish it was a matter of discussing things calmly, and then advising DSD that from now on, she lives within her own means! Unfortunately, a combination of things muddy the water, firstly at the moment we can afford it, (certainly not saying we should have to afford it though), but yes immininent retirement will naturally change things! Then, DSD has a real and inbred sense of entitlement, I find it breathtaking, (and so do her siblings) that she expects to have every need met by her DF, I mean if he agrees to pay for something costing £xx, the final outcome always escalates to £xxx or even quite often £xxxx...it's taking outrageous advantage of his kindness and generosity to a stupendous level! Lastly, DH is a very generous soul, to all our family, who appreciate and value it without abusing it, but with this DC, he has always been of the DisneyDad persuasion! I am thinking carefully, I must decide whether to just close my eyes to it all, and hope DSD will push things so far over acceptability, that he'll have to react...or put my feelings in an email and see what happens!

[Bananasinpyjamas1]

Iamanintrovert yes you are right. My mum and step dad sort out all of their finances in a really fair way with all their kids, and it really helps me to have a good relationship with both of them.

Even though my step dad has a daughter who is very needy, because of this they have managed to steer a way through what could have totally split the family - if she had her way all their money would go to her! My step dad still treats her and gets pulled into her dramas - her brothers, my step brothers, just roll their eyes and don't get on with her as a result.

But I do think it has saved their marriage - my step dad being 'fair' with money means that he couldn't justify even to himself the amount of money that she seemed to 'critically need'. And I'm so glad, as he needs my mum and would be quite miserable without her. And I quite like him too! But even I would have a hard time forgiving him if he had acquiesed to her demands - which would have really hurt my mothers feelings.

They did this by only having a very, very small pot of money that is 'extra' for each to spend on their kids. They put a lot into 'household' or 'going out money' or 'savings' or 'contigency for health needs' or 'christmas' etc, they are really good with money! I wonder if you could approach it from that way? Tie up most of the money - even has a 'christmas pot of money' - which if he choose to spend all on his daughters presents will mean there is nothing left to spend on other presents for anyone else - which is the reality really isn't it. You are taking money away from your own future needs, or being able to give as much to others who are not being as greedy.

[HormonalHeap]

Bananas i think your step dad is unusual and I wish my dh was more like him, as like the op, this issue is tearing my marriage apart with all the secrecy and lies. Do you think things would still be the same in your case if there was plenty of money to endulge your step sister?

[Wdigin2this]

We've had a bit of a heart to heart this evening...well not so much me, but him promising to tell me the truth about what's happening with DSD's expectations in future....I doubt it'll happen, but we'll see!

[Wdigin2this]

Hormonal, I agree it's the secrecy and lies that are the hardest to bear!

[Bananasinpyjamas1]

HormonalHeap that sounds pretty tough for you too. Secrecy and lies are very destructive - it is a betrayal of trust. It must be horrible knowing full well that the DSC probably knows that this isn't something you'd be happy with and either doesn't care or likes the special attention.

My step dad is unusual like that - even though there are plenty of times it has still driven my mum mad as he indulges her 'dramas' and pays for all their lunches etc - but that is bearable.

OP - the more I think about it, the more it clearly IS something that is going to affect you - you can't just turn a blind eye any more than you could if he had a gambling problem (well maybe not the greatest analogy). And the emotional cost to you both is high too, he has a daughter who is totally selfish and you have a step daughter who probably enjoys feeling that she can twist Daddy around her finger like a little girl - and couldn't care less if it drove a wedge between you.

I'm angry on both your behalfs! As to a solution... I suppose they say the first stage is to admit there is a problem and it affects more than him. Can your DPs do this?

[HormonalHeap]

Thank you Bananas, you really have got it spot on. Wdigin I hope you don't mind me saying that what I think hurts most about the secrets is the unspoken understanding between dh and sd that it's private- therefore undermining the marriage and the lack of respect they see dh showing to me.

[Wdigin2this]

Banana & Hormonal, you're both so right! Yes it's the, 'OK, I'll pay, but don't mention it to Wdigin'' attitude I find extremely undermining and disrespectful!
However, DH is aware of how I ifeel, because over the years I've certainly said enough to make that clear, and strangely he admits to me that the whole situation drags him down, and even though he isn't really aware of it himself, he will frequently avoid contact with DD rather than face the inevitable request for yet more money....basically head in sand attitude!
But, I think things are going to come to a head sooner rather than later! DD's circs have changed for the worse, but even so we are are thinking about going ahead with a life changing plan, which will not go down well!

[HormonalHeap]

Wdigin sounds exciting, the only thing is even if you are thinking of a move.. my dh can be anywhere in the world and dsd will demand a bank transfer. but from the sound of things your dh is closer to seeing sense than mine as he realises it just isn't right. Good luck!

[Wdigin2this]

Thank you Hormonal! I know he does realise it's not right, but her life has gone downhill lately, and so extra care & attention must be given at the moment! The life change is something he wants desperately though!

[AyeAmarok]

Has her life gone downhill recently because of her own doing, or just bad luck?