ok, ridiculously small issue on surface...but...how long is long enough for 'natural consequences'?

[brdgrl]

DSS (16) has broken a number of things when angry. I don't want to drip-feed, but I also don't want to out myself or go into a lot of detail which might not really be relevant.

One of the things he has broken was, probably two years ago now, the mirrored front of a wardrobe we'd only recently bought him. Can't remember for sure, but at that time, DH was not likely to have imposed any consequence for this, beyond the fact that he no longer had a full-length mirror in his room (not such a huge deal, as there was one in the hallway).

We have now moved house, and DSS has a great new room. He has asked for a full-length mirror. (there is no longer one in the hallway, the only real full-length one would be in my and Dh's bedroom)

The most recent serious incident with his temper was at the end of March. There were consequences for this one, including the loss of his pocket money until such time as he apologizes and begins to do his chores again, which hasn't happened.

Do we buy him a full-length mirror?

[shoppingfrenzy]

That sounds horribly familiar brdgrl. Very similar flash points here. I have been advised on occasion to avoid the flash points. That isn't always possible, like you say. If a flash point is being asked to do school work, or to do an expected chore then how do you avoid that - other than by not expecting school work to be done or by accepting chores not being done. I don't know if you have other DCs? We do, and pussy-footing around DSS over these issues would also, I believe, send totally the wrong message to our other DCs.

Another thing that sets our DSS off is not being in control. So if he decides he wants all the cereal (for second helping), or he wants to leave a place we're visiting, but we say he needs to check no-one else wants any of the cereal first, or that the rest of us would like to stay longer, that can also lead to an outburst, which can involve him kicking & hitting out. But to enable him to control when we leave, or to finish the ceareal without considering anyone else in the family, wouldn't be great parenting IMO. It would be enabling him to control our family through our fear if his temper. It is v tough at times.

I think you said upthread that your DSS had had some counselling? I would like my DP to consider that for his DS but he is very resistant. I would like to know where all the anger has come from.

Sorry, not much constructive advice, but lots of empathy...

[doziedoozie]

What about suggesting he looks into taking up some sport which will contribute to helping deal with his anger, in a friendly adult to adult way, not as a threat.

Running, boxing, rugby??? If he was an adult it would be a good idea to learn how to deal with your anger, perhaps he will ponder this and come up with an idea.

[spiderlight]

Isn't it seven years for a broken mirror...?

[brdgrl]

shopping, yes, I totally agree, glad you understand (but sorry you have the same trouble!)
I would like for DSS to have more counseling, and especially I would like for DH and/or DH and I to be involved, at least to the point of an initial discussion with the counselor about our concerns and the problems at home/school (problems which I am fairly sure DSS will not have mentioned, for instance, in his previous six-week go!). But DH has been told that there is no point to 'making' DSS go if he doesn't want to, and he doesn't want to (the six-week thing was a clear attempt at minimising consequences!) so that's that.
dozie, I think that's good advice, but sadly it didn't work for us. We have talked to him about anger management generally, and specifically we set him up with a couple different sport options. He wanted weights, so we got him weights. He rarely uses them. Then he wanted to join a football league, so we got him the gear and DH drove him back and forth to training and matches three days a week at the league of his choice (not one near to us because he wanted to be in one his friend was in). That didn't last either. The only thing in which he's expressed an interest (and it was a mild interest) but that we have said 'no' to was boxing.

spiderlight, perfect. :) That's what we should tell him...

[catsofa]

If he's still likely to break something big then he shouldn't have a full length mirror which would be dangerous (broken glass) if broken. Nothing to do with punishment, simply about practicalities.

If he goes six months without breaking anything in anger then perhaps you start to think that he has got over this problem and could now have a mirror in his room if he wants one, thus giving him an incentive to stop breaking things and showing willingness to trust him again if his behaviour improves.

Does that sound reasonable?

Sorry it sounds like things are so tough for you, sorry no advice re: the bigger picture really.

[doziedoozie]

Yes, the thing about sport is that it is noooooo fun if you aren't good at it ................ and you don't get good at it until you have stuck at it and had time to improve.

[shoppingfrenzy]

Interesting re sport. We too have tried this. DSS does play rugby but doesn't show much commitment, frequently has a sore leg\knee\foot\head just when it's time to go. The end result is he doesn't do the training that's required, isn't fit enough and this exacerbates the problem. dozie we've pointed this out sooo often we're like a stuck record..

We've also tried encouraging him to walk away, counting to 10 in his head when he feels anger welling up, he's missed events as punishment for damaging something\hitting one of us or one of his siblings. Problem is, and I don't know if you have this issue too brdgrl, but when his temper goes it's as though he sees red, and CAN'T control it. He is usually v contrite afterwards.

[brdgrl]

Yes, when he gets angry he can't stop.
I actually sort of get it; I have felt the same thing.

DSS isn't contrite afterwards, though - far from it. Oh, I think he knows and feels bad inside, but he will never admit any wrongdoing or any responsibility. He is always the innocent victim, and we are to blame for pushing him to it. (Or if not us, whoever he's had the problem with.) He is wildly self-righteous to a point that would be comical if it weren't so insane. We even find ourselves trying to create opportunities for him to "save face" - to reverse a path without having to admit his mistake, because he is so stubborn he will NEVER say sorry - which is crazy too.

He received very, VERY generous pocket money, which he has now lost and hasn't had in a while. He has no money saved up. So he is somehow getting around with no cash whatsoever...I suspect that he is nicking change, and we also think his sister is giving him money (and thereby undermining us and the punishment, but hey, another thread there!). But even with that, he must be missing his dosh, and yet he won't make an apology and resume his (few) chores.

[BruthasTortoise]

I would get him a mirror and confiscate the xbox to be honest.

[Peacesword]

I'd get him a mirror. I don't think it's an unreasonable request. His sanction for the last incident was losing his pocket money. I wouldn't be adding another sanction nearly two months later. And I think an act like getting the mirror brings balance, a nice gesture in the midst of what to him may feel like loads of unfair sanctions and rules.

I'd also be considering what else I could do to help get to the bottom of why he is so angry.

[brdgrl]

I'm not sure that not getting him something he wants is an additional sanction. To me, a sanction would be removing something he already has or a privilege he already gets. He's asking for a favour essentially, and I'm not sure he's earned any more favours. I did buy him a new desk chair that he wanted when we moved to the new house, which I did in the spirit you mention of making a nice gesture as we moved on to a new home, and we also replaced his bed.

I'd also be considering what else I could do to help get to the bottom of why he is so angry.
Of course we have been doing this all along. Open to ideas if you have any!
Honestly, it's not a big mystery why he's angry. We've both talked to him about the reasons; he identifies some, and some he may be unaware of but we have a sense of. The problem is that the things he is angry about aren't going to change. Getting him to deal with and accept things that are not going to change or that he simply has to learn to accept - that is the issue. And if he won't see a counselor, won't discuss issues with his dad, won't change his own behaviours or outlook, and when attempts at the usual stuff (sports, extra-curricular activities, books, intervention by relatives) don't work, it is quite hard to see what to do next.

[shoppingfrenzy]

Yes, I really can see that problem.

My DP had a long conversation with my DSS a couple of weeks ago, in which he said that unless DSS met us "halfway" (i.e. actually bothered to speak to DP, contributed to conversations, was willing to consider other points of view), then there was little we could do. DP and I won't bend over backwards to make sure that DSS's every demand is met, but we are willing to discuss things with him, and see if there is sometimes (and there won't always be) a compromise position. But without him engaging in that process, it's impossible. Since then, he's been on more of an even keel, and we've noticed a difference in behaviour.

I wonder whether the things your DSS says he is angry about (are they all "practical" things, like whether he has a choice about meal menus, how much time he spends with your DH, whether he can have a mirror) are actually masks for something else. My DSS will say that he's angry about DP not spending "enough" time with him on his own, or that he's angry that he doesn't like today's meal, or that he doesn't want to do homework - but I don't think these are the real, deep down issues regarding why he's angry. But I don't have a clue how to find those things out without the assistance of a professional third party.

I think not getting someone something they want can be a sanction. Perhaps it's better phrased as a consequence.

[brdgrl]

Here are the reasons he has given (not all at the same time) for being angry - these are the ones he acknowledges himself, rather than speculation by me - some are facts and some are his perceptions, and some are probably a mix:
His mum is dead.
We don't have enough money or 'good' careers.
We don't give him enough.
He should not have to do chores as he is a child.
He is old enough to make his own decisions about how he spends his time and what he does.
He doesn't want me as a stepmum.
We aren't a 'normal' family.
He used to be able to do as he pleased, and he can't anymore.
He has girl and peer problems.
His dad is disinterested in him.
His dad is too interfering and nosy and embarassing. (yes, a contradiction there)
He is a 16 year old boy (yes, he's said that one himself, lol).

[BigfootFiles]

"Oh, I think he knows and feels bad inside, but he will never admit any wrongdoing or any responsibility. He is always the innocent victim, and we are to blame for pushing him to it."

"Twice he has laid hands on me (pushing). Never on his dad."

Maybe sit him down and make him watch some videos on domestic abuse, and see if he wants to be that man, as it sounds like he's heading in that direction.

[brdgrl]

:( I know, bigfoot. He denied doing it after it happened, even though DH was there and saw it. No apologies, no acceptance even that he'd done something wrong. It's only me.

[shoppingfrenzy]

Oh dear, I see how some of those things just have to be accepted and dealt with as they can't be changed. Having read the list, it does sound as though he really would benefit from some counselling, especially regarding his mum's death and acceptance of his family now, and boundaries for using physical force.

Isn't one of the natural stages of grief, anger? How long ago did his mum die? Has he ever had any help in coming to terms with it? The fact that his mum isn't around does put extra pressure on his dad - he has to be all parents rolled into one, and it makes your position difficult I would imagine - he doesn't want you to be a "parent", but on the other hand, he doesn't have a mum anymore, and you must find yourself inevitably fulfilling some of that role for him. I imagine it's also very easy for him to think "my mum would never have denied me a mirror/told me I can't go to X party/made me do all that homework this weekend" etc etc. - because she isn't there to set those boundaries herself.

We have the same argument about DSS being old enough to decide what he does, when and with whom. He wants to be treated like an 18 year old who can come and go (with respect for the home of course), but he's only 13, and he can't, and we won't let him. We also have exactly the same contradiction with DSS saying his dad is both disinterested in him, and too nosy/embarrassing.

Someone recently said to me that many fathers and sons have difficult times during the teen years, as sons try to break away from father's influence on some things, but do still want their input really. It's a balancing act. I guess in a nuclear family, it's possible that those more difficult times would be maybe less noticeable, as there would be a mum and a dad there, with the other parent to take some of the pressure at times of tension - but in a blended family, or a family where one parent is no longer there, the pressure is ALL on the parent that is actually present, who has to try and be all things at all times - which just isn't possible. I don't know though if that even makes sense, or if there is any research to back it up.

[brdgrl]

Thanks, shopping. I think that is all pretty much spot-on. I know there is a lot of it which as you say is 'standard' father-son stuff (some of it very familiar from my own brother/dad, too). Part of the problem is that DH and DSS themselves don't always seem to realise that - they both fall into a trap of believing that this is such a special unique situation that common sense and 'normal' rules don't apply. Everything that happens gets viewed through this filter of blended family/bereavement, and it actually gets in the way of healthy parenting sometimes. I'm very much of the opinion that he needs help dealing with his feelings, and have been a strong advocate for him (when sometimes DH doesn't pick up on something) as well as pushing for counselling (but as I say, that's a dead end, because no one wants to 'force' him into counselling he doesn't want).