To move in or not to move in?

[ILoveTomHardy]

I have lurked on this board for a while now but now something has cropped up that I need some advice about.

I have been with my bf for five years. He is 46 and I am 39. I have a 8yo DS and he has an 11 DD.

His DD is lovely and we get on well. My DS gets on well with my BF so all seems good.

My BF and I have just got engaged and we are due to move in together soon, probably in August/September of this year, but nothing is final atm.

I have always noticed that my BF is different when his DD is around. Slightly colder than normal and very defensive about her in general. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what the issue is but it makes me feel slightly uneasy about living together. He takes everything I say about his DD as a criticism, which it certainly isn't. For example on Saturday I offered to take my BF food shopping. I arrived and I was waiting for them to get their shoes on. He actually put her shoes on for her and tied the laces for her. She had a small paper cut on her finger, she waved her finger at him and he fetched a plaster, took it out of the wrapper, took her old plaster off and put the new one on for her.

She is a really nice girl, but she is very spoilt by my BF (which certainly isn't her fault).

The main problem I suppose is that we have completely different parenting styles. I am strict with my DS and my BF is the complete opposite with his DD. He lets her do anything she wants. There are absolutely no rules in his house when she comes over.

For example this weekend my DS and I went for tea at his house. He told my DS he couldn't eat his muffin in the sitting room (the children were both watching television), but that his DD could, as she was older (!).

I know that these are just small examples but it's hard to describe how different he is when his DD is there. It's like he is wound up all of the time until she leaves.

He says he can't tell her off about anything as he wants it to be fun for her when she comes over. He was moaning about her bedroom at the weekend and the mess but he said that he would tidy it so she doesn't have to.

I don't want to tell him how to parent his DD but I can see the difference in parenting styles clashing in the future. I also feel that we are two separate families and that may well still be the case when we move in together. Me and my DS and him and his DD. I am starting to feel quite worried about it to be honest.

[Eliza22]

And be careful what "agreements" are reached. By that, I mean to say my DH was fully aware that his youngest daughter did not want me. His attitude was, she will like you because I love you and when she sees how you "are" and how happy we are together, she'll be fine. She detests me. She's now 19. It is illogical and thankfully not the attitude her siblings took but still, DH assumed too much.

[ChippingInWiredOnCoffee]

I don't think it will go at all well either :(

Disney Dad Parenting v Sensible Everyday Mum Parenting There is a HUGE gulf there, which you sensibly realise needs sorting out. I would go as far as to say it needs sorting out to see if you want to stay in a relationship with him - not just if you want to move in with him this year. If you don't move in with him - what's the point in the relationship really? I'm surprised it has taken 5 years to get to this point.

Disney Dad's are very hard work to be around and do their kids no favours at all :(

[ILoveTomHardy]

It's taken five years to get to this point because we wanted to be sure that it was the right thing for the children. Obviously over that time we have spent quite a lot of time together but his Disney activities didn't bother me too much, as I had my own home to go to after we had spent the day together. He also seems to have got worse as she has got older. Not sure why that might be.

What I need to be wary of is lots of promises about how things will change without any evidence to back this up. I don't want to take his word for it, I want to see changes for myself over a period of months before we make any definite plans to move in together. That doesn't mean telling her off every five minutes, it just means him acting like a parent, not a combination of best friend, man servant, and general dogsbody. He seems to actually be frightened of upsetting her at the moment, which is a bit odd to say the least.

[Eliza22]

No, it's not odd. Not at all. My DH walked on eggshells with youngest daughter because he was scared she'd stop seeing him. She knew this. He hasn't had a relationship (beyond an occasional text message and a lunch) with her in over 2 years. Daughter wants her own way and now, at 19, she still behaves with dad like a petulant little girl. And he has allowed this.

She knows how to hurst him and she does, by her absence, because she can.

[Eliza22]

"Knows how to HURT him" ...

[Jan45]

Good luck, you sound a lovely level headed person so watch the heart doesn't take over as it so often can!

[DonutForMyself]

Oh I know exactly what you mean about taking it all as personal attack

When I've brought up issues about lying/stealing etc in a really lighthearted way (all kids do silly thing sometimes, its not like they think of it in a mean way, they just see something and think "oooh I'd like that") he used to categorically state that his kids would never steal anything (even though my kids' stuff would mysteriously end up at their house!)

He's a bit more realistic now but he still always gives his the benefit of the doubt, especially the youngest, who can do no wrong, whereas mine are always lying, obviously

[ChippingInWiredOnCoffee]

I'm really pleased that you are so... sensible, level headed & wise! That you realise that you need to see the changes, not just hear promises etc. This about 'rules' it's about attitude and the only way to gauge that is to see it over a period of time. You have waited 5 years - waiting until you are sure (either way) is wise.

It isn't 'really odd' though - it's sadly very normal with NRP's :( The need to be the 'fun & chilled' parent, they want the kids to want to be there, they don't want them to start to refuse to come. I can understand it, but it's not healthy, for anyone - especially his daughter. You see it again and again on these boards and it causes a lot of heartache in blended families.

[Cerisier]

Disney Dad Parenting v Sensible Everyday Mum Parenting - depressing but apt Chipping.

Good luck with the chat OP. I suspect everything will become crystal clear once it is over. Either way, I hope it works out well.

[ChippingInWiredOnCoffee]

Also, throw in the fact that your DS would then be living with her Daddy and (understandably) she is going to get much more posessive & demanding and your DS is going to be 'in the wrong' all the time - unless your DP gets a good grip on this beforehand it would be a nightmare that you don't need and certainly your DS doesn't deserve.

[ILoveTomHardy]

The thing is that he has seen her every single week since he and his ex split up (when his DD was six months old). She also stays with him full time for around three weeks of the school holidays. He also has her for long weekends probably three or four times a year when her mum goes away for the weekend. So it's not like he is scared of not seeing her. They have a very regular contact pattern which they both enjoy.

From my point of view he has built her up in his head as being perfect in every single way and therefore cannot be criticised in any way whatsoever. This is what worries me about our upcoming conversation. He will take whatever I say as a personal attack on his daughter, which it isn't. I like her, this isn't about her and the way she is, this is about the way he parents her.

I don't want us to be like two separate families in the same house. My best case scenario would be that she loves coming over, she gets treated as an 11 year old girl and she goes home happy. I want her to come over whenever she likes. I have said to my BF that when we live together if she wanted to come for tea more often in the week and stay over I can drop her at school on my way to work. He can't do that now because he has to be at work at 8am.

I want my DS not to feel like a second class citizen while she is there. End of. I don't see this as being particularly complicated, but it seems that it is complicated for my BF who insists on treating her like visiting royalty, rather than his child.

[DonutForMyself]

Well then I guess this will tell you how much he values the idea of you all living together as a family, because if he doesn't promise to review his parenting methods (and of course actually follow through with that) then he will be missing out on part of his future with you. Let us know how it goes x

[twinkletwinkle9]

I was in an almost identical situation but then a 'surprise' pregnancy made us make the decision to move in together.
I'll admit at first it was pretty hard, it was fine Mon-Friday but then the kids would come at weekend and the house was full of tensions and arguments from almost the minute they arrived to the minute they went home.
Mainly because as lovely as the children are there was no discipline or rules. DP was disciplining my DS but not his own, this made me so defensive of my own DS and was making me really mad with his own children.
We nearly split up over it at one point because he refused to tell them off, he doesn't get that much time with them so he didn't want to spend that time telling them off.
We went for relationship counselling and I think at that point he realised that he was close to losing his relationship and family because of his Disney parenting.
Together we decided what was acceptable from all the children, house rules and discipline procedures. Since then things have been much better, not perfect but much better.
If together you can't agree on what you will BOTH accept and not accept from BOTH children then I don't think you can ever be truly happy living together.

[ChippingInWiredOnCoffee]

Ilove - this is probably going to sound harsh and blunt and I don't mean it to, but I don't know how else to word it. You sound really lovely and I truely hope it all works out well for you x

For almost all of her life, 10 1/2 years now, he has only ever had non residential contact with her, he has no idea how to be a parent, is what it boils down to. He knows how to be an uncle, friend, doting god parent. He has never had to parent her, not in the true sense.

Changing the way he is with her is going to be very hard.

I really wish you had picked him up on this 5 years ago, when she was small, instead of just being grateful you could go home at the end of the day as changing the way he is with her is going to be hard on both of them.

It is important to have the same, agreed, rules for both the children while not fundamentally changing how you choose to parent - that is hard enough, but essentially it's not so much 'the rules' that are the problem, but just his overall Disney Dad/Princess Daughter thinking.

Would he consider going to counselling - as twinkle says, so he understands why this isn't good for his DD and why your relationship will not survive this attitude either.

[ILoveTomHardy]

I doubt he would go for counselling. For him there is no problem. You have hit the nail on the head. He's like a doting uncle type figure and not a father in the real sense of the word. I just can't get over how different he is with me when she is there. He's really off hand and a lot colder with me than he usually is. It's like he doesn't want to be disloyal but that's ridiculous.

She will always be a priority, just like my son is for me. But love isn't a commodity, you can't use it up by loving someone else too. The way I love my son is not the same as the way I love my BF.

I think children can only benefit from rules, lots of love and a strong relationship between the adults in the house. He thinks that loving me means excluding her. Not a good way to start living together.

[ChippingInWiredOnCoffee]

For him there is no problem...yet. How do you think he will react when you tell him that it is a problem for you and until it's resolved to your satisfaction you will not be moving in together and if you aren't moving in together there's no point in the relationship at all? you could probably phrase that a little more gently, but them's the bones of it!).

Everything you say is right... :) :(

[ILoveTomHardy]

I have got a horrible feeling that he will take it very badly. I'm thinking of the future too, when we have teenagers in the house and what that will be like. I'm trying my hardest to bring my DS to respect women. What will he think if he is brought up in a house where his "sister" is spoilt rotten and has no boundaries?

[ChippingInWiredOnCoffee]

You are thinking and doing all the right things... I'm just sad that you have to and worried that it might not be enough. When are you going to talk to him? I'm not sure tomorrow before she arrives is the best time... where will DS be? I think you need a time when she isn't about to arrive so he has time to think about it and when you don't have time constraints or DS ear wigging.

[Feelingbetterbyfar]

May I also suggest the importance of relationship counseling.
A good counselor goes a long way in giving objective guidelines and support for mums with common sense.
The trouble is, you still have to be extremely vigilant and point out the misguided behaviour of Disney parenting at every turn.
Dh has now significantly let up on spousification of dsd, who in turn has become very affectionate towards me (as we are no longer set up as rivals), but is turning now to dss to become big buddies instead!!
I've pointed this out, of course, but until our next counseling session I'm pretty sure dh is super confident I'm over reacting and its perfectly ok to share as much time with dss as possible, eventhough he lives 50:50 with us, to detriment of our (shaky) marriage.