DSS behaviour undermining rules for DD!

[NotaDisneyMum]

I hate these long, two week blocks of contact - urgh!

DSS is slowly reverting to his 'learned helplessness' state - he's been here a week and it's obviously a lot of effort to have to think like a 9 year old here. I reduced him to tears a couple of days ago by explaining that he was quite capable of taking responsibility for his own library card - he's terrified of the independence!

His behaviour had deteriorated - and he's begin to exhibit behaviours we thought we had made some progress on - table manners have gone out the window again, he's resumed the gormless standing in the middle of a room waiting to be directed to breathe and he's begun eavesdropping, interrupting and trying to see/read paperwork etc that adults (not just me and DP) are reading!

This is where the problem with DD lies. Currently, she is only allowed to use her Smartphone in family areas of the house, (because her Dad bought her an unlimited data bundle and I want to be able to supervise her Internet access).
DSS openly looks over her shoulder and reads texts she sends to and receives from her Dad. Understandably, this pisses her off!
I've told her that she can say something if he's intruding - but she hates conflict, so simmers quietly under the surface and I'm afraid she's going to blow up one day!
DP and I keep telling DSS but it's just not getting through and I'm already the WSM for expecting him to behave appropriately for his age; asking him to think before he speaks, to help out with household things he doesn't enjoy etc.

Just a vent really - it is unrealistic to suddenly expect a family to gel for 2 weeks when the rest of the year they only spend 2 days a week together!

[theredhen]

So should op change her dd routine to that of her dp ex wife?

Is that fair on her?

There are TWO children in this household, would you normally suggest that two children in one house are parented seperately?

[NotaDisneyMum]

There's been no suggestion of learning delay/disabilities/ASD from the school - although they do seem to baby the DCs there as well; DSS mum volunteers and she has said that all the DCs right up to year 6 have their belongings handed to them at the end of the day from their pegs and are supervised when hand washing after toileting/before meals for example.
I have links with a different school as a governor and where DD went and their expectations of the DCs are much higher!

I think it is learned helplessness coupled with fear of getting things wrong - his mum and sister have fiery tempers and quite cruel sense of humour and I've seen DSS on the receiving end of both their rage and teasing in the past

[Krumbum]

He's the child who's being disrupted all the time. It seems you could cut him a bit of slack.

[NotaDisneyMum]

Oh krum I do - I'm always telling DP to back off and not have such high expectations

But, I'm struggling to see how I can ignore his behaviour that affects my DD without compromising my own parenting of her - I could ignore his behaviour and let DD text from her room, but then when DSS is given a mobile phone, then would we have to allow him unsupervised access too?

[allnewtaketwo]

If we 'parented' DSSs here the way their mother does, we would be treating them both as tiny children (they are 16 and 13), not telling them to make their own beds, not letting them make a single decision ever, terrifying them into a state of anxiety, yelling, using them as unpaid childcare for our younger child consistently, failing to help them grow up basically. Hmm.

[theredhen]

Op dd comes from a "broken" home too. It's not just her step child who is "uprooted".

[Jemma1111]

Op, so you hate the fact that this poor lad gets to spend 2 whole weeks with his dad in one go (wow) and now you want to renegotiate the access times as you believe it will be better for everyone . Do you mean better for you ?

I also think that your dss most probably feels like a visitor and so appears uncomfortable around you , I bet he knows he's not really welcome by you to your home.

And as for calling a child gormless, that says alot about you

[theredhen]

I have referred to my ds as gormless ( not to his face) in the past. I love him more than anything else in the whole world.

Doesn't mean he doesn't have negative characteristics like any other person.

[taxiforme]

NADM AllNew, yep same here.

We have a 12 yo DSS (and 14 and 16 YO DSDs) who are all infantalised. Part of Bm's neurosis and her fear of losing control (SAHM) she also feeds them a child like very bland boring "beige soft food" diet. I have posted a lot about DSD2 who is very immature.

Added to (in your case the learned helplessness- have this too and a great way to decsribe it) we have the communication difficulties with DSS. But I think that it might be chicken and egg, which came first? Communication problem or babying?

I don't know how I would cope if I had to blend these children into my home if I had kids of my own.

I try not to think of it as parenting but to think of it as making them into better adults and when we are adults sometimes we are called on to work in a different way, with different people and he is not too old to understand that. At a funeral, at work, with granny, at the rugby club stag night, on a first date..ect ect. By laying down your firm but FAIR boundaries with BOTH of them you are at least trying to make them into rounded people able to get on with anyone.

Maybe you are over thinking this a little. I would try and relax and see if you can just do what comes naturally and what feels right. Making him cry must have been horrible but he is who he is and he is a child with needs whether you like it or not. I can only reiterate HOW frustrating it is as i survey my once prsitine kitchen where no one appears to understand the concept of putting anything away or tidying up. TV/X box comes first..aagh.

[taxiforme]

I am defending my right to be and to use gormless, it's a very descriptive word. I dont know what a gorm is, so what it is to be less one is a matter for the academics. Never mind about that..

We have a special word for it here, it's called "gorming". Its that special place we go to. Its a bit like meditation for northerners.

We all do it. Dad on the beach, kids at the TV, me in Zara or Whistles or Harvey Nicks.

[NotaDisneyMum]

jemma I'm looking for practical suggestions on how to stop him feeling like a guest and help him feel more at home - can you help?

We've been treating him as one of the family - expecting him to muck in, help himself, have responsibility - but that doesn't seem to be what you mean. What do you suggest?

I'd love him to spend as much time here as DD does - it seems so unfair that she has time with both her parents equally and he had to make do with 2 days a week with DP, especially as he has even less time with his mum and spends most of his time in his grandmas care.

It makes these prolonged periods very difficult for him as he understandably treats them a like he would a holiday rather than a routine part of life - his grandmas house is more familiar to him than here, but at least he has his own room and belongings here and doesn't have to bring a suitcase

[Jemma1111]

NADM - yes here's a couple of suggestions , stop nit picking and finding fault with your dss , he's a young child !
And how about asking HIM how HE feels about your wish to cut down contact before you and your Dh decide for him .

You did ask.

taxiforme you describe your dcs Bm as cold, closed, Unemotional and bordering on disabled by neurosis.


Maybe that is exactly how she would describe you !

[NotaDisneyMum]

jemma he's 9 - is that considered young? Really?

My view of him is that he is middle school age, and would be expected to make his way between classrooms for different lessons, remember timetables, find his way to and from school alone....none of which he is capable of.

As for changing his contact arrangements - I'm astounded that anyone would suggest that a SM talk to their DSC about changing the arrangement; I'd consider that overstepping in a huge way!

DP and his ex deal with that - but I can see the benefits for DSS of more frequent, shorter contact periods - as recommended by experts for younger DCs

[Jemma1111]

Well if your dp and his ex deal with access arrangements then I can't see why you're interfering ! You're overstepping there !

I guess he's not too young to know how you feel towards him, like he's a burden.

I'm done

[theredhen]

Nadm - do you think you are expecting the same of dss as of your own dd? I've got two 14 yr olds in this house and ds is much "younger" than dsd.

[NotaDisneyMum]

I think that a two-week contact block once a year when all other contact periods are no more than 4 days is difficult for everyone in the family including DSS to manage. If that thought is interfering, then so be it!

I'd love him to live here 50% of the time -so we could establish a more natural family routine and dynamic; it's the contrast between the regular short periods and the single prolonged period each year that I am struggling with, just as DSS, DP and DD are as well.

I do wonder if my expectations are too high because my own experience was with DD - they do say girls mature quicker, don't they?

DP and I have spent hours talking about it - it seems that he was similarly late in development/maturity.

What we're struggling with is if we lower our expectations of him, should we also limit the benefits/opportunities that his age brings if he can't fully appreciate them yet, even if he wants to do them?

[MaryHansack]

such as?

[NotaDisneyMum]

taxi I've just re-read one of your posts - the bit about knowing that different behaviour is appropriate/required in different settings

• do you think it's reasonable for DSS to have an basic understanding of this and for him to make the effort to achieve the behaviour expected based on the time and place?

[NotaDisneyMum]

mary he wants to take part in over8 activity days at the local sports centre, for instance - but doesn't want to be responsible for himself without DP there to take him to the loo, help him change etc - it's not usual/possible for parents to stay, it's a kids club!

[MaryHansack]

well if he wants to go.....maybe it would be a good thing for him? force him to do stuff independently like other kids his age who will also be there?

[NotaDisneyMum]

That's how I feel about it, too - if he wants to do it, he should do the same as all the others, not be given special treatment (DP was going to see if he could pop in between activities and at lunchtime).

[MaryHansack]

hm....I wonder if he has been a bit babied by both parents?

[NotaDisneyMum]

mary I think he has - the damage has been done, and any attempt DP makes now to rectify it is undermined by the continued babying when DSS is not here.

Its a lot easier for DSS to 'be more grown up' when it's only for a day or two - but if it takes effort and isn't natural for him, after a week or so he begins to falter and get upset that he has so much responsibility for himself

[theredhen]

Some kids don't want to be grown up and independent, some do. It all depends on how the parents treat it. You're up against a losing battle if it's pandered to at mums aren't you?

I suppose you've got to accept that's it's partly personality, partly upbringing by mum and that you're always going to have a bit of a battle with it.

[NotaDisneyMum]

That's what DP and I concluded in the early hours!
What we've still not resolved is how much we 'battle' to influence and how much we make allowances for.

DP wants to teach DSS independence; he recognises the impact that his own naivety had as he was growing up, but he hates upsetting DSS, isn't comfortable challenging him when it's likely not to make much of a difference.