Grrr- dsd's mum not supporting dh in discipline

[Samraves]

I guess this is the age old complaint isn't it?

I am lucky enough to get on ok with dh's daughters mum really. However, what was a silly thing has grown out of all proportion due to her not supporting us over this matter.

Dsd is 13, and we have recently had a baby. My dh has been really diligent to make sure dsd feels included. We let her keep the big warm room, so our little one has the tiny cold one. We have acknowledged it may be difficult for her... Talked to her about it, encouraged her to help as much or as little as she wants with her baby sister. Etc. She seems to love her sister which is great and has had no problems so far. My dh tries to spend time with her, but like an teenager she'd rather be on msn or facebook.

Anyway, he is still giving her lifts to clubs etc three nights a week even though it is very inconvenient when trying to get the baby into a routine and let me het food down me- one night he is out ferrying her till 7pm as not worth him driving home... So last week he goes to pick her up. She isn't out on time, doesn't answer her mobile. Is 15mins late and rude to her dad in front of her mates. So he tells her off for being rude and not answering phone. She screams at him, and had refused to talk to him since and didn't come round for the nights she normally spends with us.

My dh is devastated and spoken to her mum every day since. Her mum just says oh, you are making a big deal of nothing, wait till she forgets about it and let it blow over... She is just upset about your new baby! Why did you have a go about her being rude?

Am I missing something? Shouldn't her mum being sending her round to apologise for being rude and not pandering to her. She should not be using baby sister as an excuse, when dh has tried to spend time and been rejected before I wad even preg, let alone since the baby was born. Now she is learning she can get away with rudeness if she blames it on something and my dh is in bits! He is texting her daily with no reply.

We understand that she may be finding it hard but don't want to put up with rudeness when doing so much for her! Sorry to rant... Any ideas about how to deal with this?

[catsmother]

Unfortunately we've had lots of experience of the skids behaving badly and their mother actively condoning it by refusing to speak to them, or insist that apologies etc are made. Her desire to see her ex (and/or me) upset and worried is greater than the desire to see that their children are brought up to be considerate polite people and the children would have to do something truly truly appalling before she'd grudgingly admit they were in the wrong. For example, (long story) SS spent well over a year slamming the phone down on his paternal grandmother whenever she tried to speak to him - there was also a fair bit of insolence if she was lucky before the phone was slammed. SS's mother refused to acknowledge this was - from a child of 11/12 - in any way wrong and insisted that she "respected SS's right to express himself" and similar such pathetic rubbish.

There really isn't much you can do when the parent with care is so unreasonable. In our experience, if you let her know/see that she and/or her kids have caused worry/upset/hurt it actually encourages her to do even less about sorting the issue out as trouble seems to be her main goal ... so it's inevitably a waste of emotional energy trying to get her on side.

All your DH can really do is try to tackle his daughter directly - though of course children who don't live with you take full advantage of the logistics and are able to avoid tellings off and discipline by refusing to see their other parent - as he's finding out. I wouldn't try to tackle the "issue" of the new baby with her via text. I say it with inverted commas because I suspect like you it could well be an all too convenient excuse to justify her bad behaviour - and even if it isn't, texts aren't the way to discuss it.

I'd suggest that he puts the ball in SD's court by trying to arrange the next contact visit. It's a bit pointless trying to argue about the telling off (if that's what he's doing) when clearly she can opt to ignore him. However, once she does turn up again I certainly would want to sit her down and have a chat about respect, rudeness and responsibility. She then has the opportunity to complain about the new baby though quite what you're supposed to do about that I don't know (if that's really an issue) - you can't send the baby back ! I expect that if she's used to DH being at her beck and call anyway it won't be long before she realises she's cutting off her nose to spite her face if she continues to ignore him. I'd also tell her that if she wants DH to help facilitate her social life she needs to show some gratitude and responsibility - if she's rude/late again he won't do it any more simple as that.

[theredhen]

We have had this. DSS swore several times in front of us and OH shouted at him and sent him to his room.

Next thing we know is that we get an e-mail from kids Mum that DSS doesn't want to come for weekday access as he gets shouted at by his Dad. She has no idea what went on and didn't seem interested in knowing either. We got a long lecture about being horrible to the children and driving them away etc. Of course, DSS was apparently quite happy to come at weekends (nothing to do with this being the time their Mum sees her boyfriend ).

Eventually, DSS realised he was missing out on the fun with DS and I suspect their Mum missed her free couple of days during the week.

We really felt the wrong message was being sent to the children, in that they can play one parent off against the other and try to emotionally blackmail Dad by witholding contact themselves.

[Samraves]

Yes, this is exactly it- it is doing dsd no good and she is getting sent entirely the wrong message!

I have been trying to hint that if she smiles and is nice to her dad he will give her lifts etc willingly and the best way to get the best from anyone, friends or famy is to be nice and make them feel appreciated! But unfortunately her mum seems to generally have trouble saying the words 'sorry' and 'thank you' so it is understandable that dsd has trouble with this.
Such a shame, cos other than this she is such a lovely girl! Her attitude and the way she comes across is the one area which will cause her all sorts of problems :-( and make things harder than they need to be

[Bonsoir]

TBH, I don't think that your DH's exW was in the wrong in the OP - I think your DH was.

[GypsyMoth]

I agree with bonsoir in part

This is normal teenage behaviour and will happen more and more.......and you'll prob see alot worse from her!!

You deal with it. Don't involve her mother with what happens on your watch! And you have a baby, it's no big deal. Ferrying around to clubs etc it's all normal family stuff

You sound resentful of him being with her

[catsmother]

I don't understand why you think the OP's husband was wrong ?? Yes .... thoughtlessness and rudeness are common teenage traits, but does that mean parents should just ignore it - he had every right to tell her off. The only thing he's done "wrong" - as it turns out - is to try and get the mother on side .... though maybe he thought he was being responsible in trying to share his concerns about their daughter with his ex. I agree the mother wasn't there etc but surely she has some interest in the fact that her daughter was not only rude (okay, "typical") but has compounded the issue since by refusing to speak to her dad. That is what the mother could help with - seeing as she's with the child 24/7 - whereas dad is at a huge disadvantage right now as he's dependent upon the little madam deigning to speak to him. In a similar situation, had my ex told our son off and he'd stropped back home to me and was then insolent enough to ignore him, I'd insist that he saw/spoke to his dad so it could be sorted out one way or another, and I'd also make it clear that he shouldn't be rude ..... no way should a 13 year old child be allowed to call the shots like this. To put it into perspective, if a teenager was refusing to speak for days on end to either or both of their parents in an "unsplit" family scenario, most people wouldn't simply accept that level of insolence and would probably impose some sort of punishment until they saw sense. There's been many occasions in the past when my son was dreadfully rude to me - then expected to be driven somewhere 20 minutes later ...... errr, no way Jose, treat me with respect if you want favours off me. By not co-operating with her ex, the mother is in effect condoning the daughter's rudeness.

[Bonsoir]

The DH sneaked on his DD to her mother - bad move.

The biological parents need to discuss common boundaries for behaviour, but sneaking about anecdotal incidents is really silly.

And it the OP is deeply unreasonable resenting her DH for chauffeuring his 13 year old DD to activities at 7pm. This is what parents do.

[catsmother]

Hmmmm .... well, that's not clear. Did the dad run off to the ex whining "poor me, DD's been really rude", or did he say "could you help me get through to DD because she's refusing to take my calls ?" Inevitably the ex would probably then ask why and it's at that point - because she's in a much stronger position - she should insist the daughter stops being rude to her dad and speak to him .... because not taking his calls is rude, and this is happening now on the mother's "watch", therefore she should be co-operating.

[GypsyMoth]

Maybe the mother had no idea the dd is ignoring calls if they are to her mobile???

Teens are tricky, and if it gets worse then you need to pick your battles!

[Bonsoir]

catsmother - believe me, I speak with experience - if the other parent gets involved with very minor disciplinary issues, the child of separated parents will play each parent off against the other at will!

[LtEveDallas]

We are having similar concerns at the moment, although my DSD is 15, almost 16.

After an issue at Xmas when ExW wanted DH to contribute to an 'extra' christmas present for DSD we have had no contact. (The issue itself was blown out of all proportion and became seriously nasty on the part of the ExW). At the time we hoped that DSD was not aware what was going on, but assume now that she knew all along, or has been told since.

DH is very upset that his 'little girl' does not want to see him, although takes some solice in the fact that she will 'talk' to me (however short) on FB.

It is unbelievably frustrating when you hit brick walls like this, but all I can advise is that your DH doesn't give up, no matter how annoyed he may be, and hope that your DSD comes around in time. My DH is being a bit of an arse about it all this time round, and I worry it's not going to get any better.

(Bonsoir, I read the OPs post that the DH was ferrying DD until 7pm - straight from work, which means he does not get home until after that - I think that is pretty full on for any parent, especially if the DD doesnt appreciate it)

[Bonsoir]

LOL, we have very different standards. When my DD was a baby, DP left home at 8 am every morning in order to take the DSSs to school (even on the mornings that they were at their mother's house) and never got home until 7pm, often much later because he had to ferry the DSSs around for activities. This seemed entirely normal to me.

[catsmother]

I also speak with experience ! Both as a single mum for many years and as a stepparent. In my experience I've found the opposite to be largely true though I agree that neither parent should get bogged down with the other's minor disciplinary issues. However, I feel that continued rudeness to either parent is something the other parent should be made aware of, as I don't think it's a minor issue - and if they are responsible, they should be doing what they can to nip it in the bud and/or discipline as appriopriate bearing in mind it is usually much easier for the parent with care to do this as they have the child living with them.

For example, my son has only ever tried to play off me and his dad 3 or 4 times in the 14 years we were split (and he was still a child). That's because he knows that neither of us approve of him being rude to the other (no matter what we think of each other) and that any complaints to either of us about tellings off were usually met with "what happened ?" and swiftly followed by "well, I think your mum/dad was right, I'd have done the same" so he couldn't expect to strop off in either direction and get much sympathy.

In contrast, my partner has been in a similar position to the OP's husband - except much, much worse ..... because the rudeness, the refusal to speak (except strangely enough just prior to birthdays and xma) went on for years and his ex refused to mediate and/or insist that her son showed his dad some respect. There's obviously a lot more background (there usually is) but in a nutshell, my partner's ex had allowed both skids an inappropriate level of power since they were tiny - allowing them to "choose" whether or not they saw their dad - and "helpfully" suggesting that she felt really lonely without them and/or suggesting "fun" things they could be doing with mummy instead of seeing daddy. So .... my DP was already on the backfoot and the skids could confidently say "if you tell me off I won't come" knowing that their mother wouldn't make them. Nor would she answer his calls ..... just like the OP. Needless to say things really deteriorated after DP one day deservedly told off his older child who had been completely foul, and a bully, .... and the child then refused to speak to or see him at all. Understandably, DP asked his ex to help and was met with a brick wall. There followed years of no contact, courts, CAFCASS and so on. All this could and should have been stopped at the first sign of trouble and probably would have blown over if DP's ex had insisted SS return as scheduled to his dad's .... instead, the incident was allowed to assume an importance out of all proprtion, my DP was demonised, we went through hell one way and another and the relationship today - though "mended" to an extent - is, I believe, an unhealthy one where the balance of power is all wrong (another long story).

I really think that if the mother is bitter, and has her own agenda, that "little" things like rudeness can snowball and cause great harm. DP would always try to avoid involving his ex if he could as she's a very unreasonable person, but there were occasions when he felt she needed to know and where he felt it would have been irresponsible not to tell her. He also hoped that they'd be able to present some sort of united front so the children were getting consistent messages about right and wrong. Maybe (definitely) he was naiive to hope for that but I maintain that on several occasions he had little choice but to appeal for her help when his children were slamming the phone down on him. I don't doubt she was encouraging this but he felt he had to at least go through the motions of saying "are you aware the children won't speak to me, can you ask why" etc.

I suppose opinions on this sort of thing often boil down to our individual experiences but I know I'd have felt mortified if my son was being as foul to his dad as my skids have repeatedly been to theirs (DP). Had I never checked my son about that sort of thing I've no doubt he would have pushed things even further - seeing what he could get away with, seeing what I'd allow him to do ..... just as my skids have done, while their mother sat by and did nothing constructive to try and repair matters - with eventual devastating results. What my DP's been through (and all the resulting shite that's affected mine and our DD's lives) could all have been avoided if his ex had insisted, right from the start, that the children respected their dad. Living apart from them, he was in an almost impossible position without her support - as he literally couldn't speak to them if they chose not to speak to him, and they'd run away from discipline (which might have taught them something worthwhile) because their mother let them.

I really hope the OP's situation doesn't escalate, but I believe most of our contact problems grew from the children being allowed to do what they wanted rather than do what was best for them (i.e. a regular, normal relationship with their dad - and yes, that includes tellings off sometimes !) His ex could have stopped it but didn't.

[Samraves]

Yes, maybe I do have different standards to some people... And the only thing I resent about the lifts is the fact my dh comes back so upset as she is often dismissive and moody with him. Hence why I am trying to encourage her to be nice when he drops her off and picks her up. And yes, means he doesn't get home till after 7...

Personally with our dd- she will only get ferried about of she has behaved!!! I won't condone rudeness even though of course it is inevitable with teenagers. And really he doesn't have to give her all the lifts, but we want him to so she can do all the stuff she wants.

He didn't go running to her mum, that particular lift happens on one of the nights she has at home not with us so he dropped her back at her mums.. Where she ran in screaming and crying and locked herself in the bathroom, so her mum asked what happened!

And I think this has blown up out of proportion now... She has refused to have lifts from her dad, so her mum is trying to take her. Would have been so much easier if her mum had sent her round. If she gave my dh a hug everything would be fine. Instead he is miserable :(