Let's talk about flexible working.....do you do it, how does it work, what does your employer think? Share with MN jobs...

[AnnMumsnet]

Here at MNHQ, our colleagues on the MN jobs desk would love to know how you get on with flexible working requests with your employers, especially after a return from leave.

Our Family Friendly programme survey revealed just how strongly parents feel about flexible working - with a fifth of those who work flexibly, or who have done in the past, saying that it is 'priceless'. Flexible working is valued more highly by employees that other workplace perks, even more important than career and salary progression. And there's good news for employers who embrace flexible working, with flexible workers having an overwhelmingly positive view of their workplaces.

However, there's still some way to go when it comes to awareness of working flexibly: 27% of people surveyed did not know that they had the right to request flexible working.

So - AIBU to expect to be able to work flexibly after maternity (/paternity/ adoption/ fostering) leave? What's your experience of flexible working requests? What would be your dream flexible working pattern? Share your views and stories on this thread.

If you’re interested in a new job (flexible of course) sign up for Mumsnet Jobs alerts here and do follow them on Twitter @mumsnetjobs or Facebook. How about this one? an IT Systems Manager - with the option to work flexibly or part time? If your employer has been amazing for flexible working, get them to email us ([email protected]) to find out about the Mumsnet Family Friendly programme!

Thanks
MNHQ

Insight T and Cs Apply

[Rosieandtwinkle]

After a year out following the arrival of DC1 I requested part time hours, only to be told a straight 'no' without any discussion about alternatives. As a result I resigned, taking my 10yrs+ of knowledge, experience and training investment with me! It was an otherwise forward thinking, progressive company that was just stuck in the dark ages when it comes to flexible working.

[Falconhoof1]

I work 4 days a week from 9:30 to 14:30 to fit in with school pick up. I also have the school holidays off. I'm lucky to work somewhere that offers this flexibility but my pay isn't amazing.

[LOliver123]

I work in the public sector, four days a week. Two of those in office, the other two days at home. And I can be flexible with my start times. Really happy with my working arrangement

[fabulous01]

Flexible working!
When I worked in civil service I had been there 9 years and asked for it
I was told no unless you can still do your whole work in less time
My request was denied by someone senior ... who worked flexibly...

I took redundancy as I couldn’t do the commute and not have flexibility

Tried to get a part time job but couldn’t so took full time

Asked again. Male worked part time in team which was huge so thought I had a chance

Was told no. Role is 9 to 5 Monday to Friday. If you come in early that is your choice. Even though I took half hour lunch I would be working more hours than paid for so I asked if I could leave at 4;30 on Friday. Was told no.

Now in a team and organisation which supports flexible working but too scared to ask

I work in HR so I know the legislation but flexible working is a myth.

[Wetwashing00]

my hours are flexible and always were, I was on a 0 hour contract when I started with the company and I did use it to my advantage.
I would work around my childcare only, I still managed to pick up extra shifts during low staff levels but I wasn’t paid a great deal.

When I was promoted I was expected to work shifts that were set by a line manager, which is usual.
But I was the only female with a child (and a single mum)
When I requested flexiable hours I had to fight my corner hard to prove that expecting me to work the same schedule as a single man with no children was not reasonable.

As my place of work is 24/7 365 days a year they were not able to prove that the hours I requested to Work were detrimental to the business.
I gave my employers a schedule of time I was available to work, it works quite well now.

Although I have been told that I would never be considered for another promotion because of my flexible hours request.

[MargoLovebutter]

I work for a large not for profit organisation and flexible working is not encouraged at all. There is a view by senior management that flexible working is an opportunity for people to take the piss. In recent years all formal applications have been rejected, although lip service is paid to them being fully considered. Some staff have more forward thinking bosses who allow them informal flexible arrangements but formal requests are denied 99% of the time. This ensures that the word gets out that it is pointless requesting them, so it is a self-fulfilling cycle and there is a notion held by some senior managers that staff don't want to work flexibly because so few requests are made!

[MrsRobert]

I got the flexible working I asked for although it took months to get the approval in writing. I've been back more than a month but many of my colleagues keep asking when I am working more days and can't understand why I do so few days! I'm happy and it's working for me but I had to been more assertive, say no and manage expectations more. I seem to have become better at this since becoming a mum! I am doing 5 day workload in 2 days because a job share was turned down. I have noticed this with all the women that have returned after maternity leave (civil service). They haven't reduced their full-time workload and are working harder in fewer days. Job shares aren't considered and they don't even take on lower grade staff to assist. The women returning from mat leave end up being pressured to go back full-time or leave. It is a way of reducing the salary bill for the organisation which is worrying and I have brought it to the attention of my union.

[MissWilmottsGhost]

I'm a research scientist and my current employer (academic) is very good and happy that I work whatever hours I like as long as the work is done. I often do more than my contracted hours but that's fine because I can also have slack days and bugger off home if I'm bored.

My previous employer (nhs) seemed to think that flexible working meant that the employee must be willing to come in to work whenever the manager expected over the whole 24/7. It was ridiculous. They refused to employ part timers/evening/weekend only staff and expected everyone to work full time hours plus evenings, plus weekends. Needles to say, many staff left, and now they pay £££ for locums who still don't cover evenings or weekends. Utterly idiotic management

[MissWilmottsGhost]

Surely the best reason for an employer to say yes is to retain experienced staff? Most people asking for flexibility do so because they are not able to continue to work normal hours, so a refusal often means the employee has to find another job. As my previous employer found, eventually you end up with no staff. This may not be a problem if you can easily recruit new ones or train someone up, but if experienced staff are rare, it is better to keep them on reduced hours than lose them completely.

[RedRobin87]

I am on maternity leave but have secured flexible working for when I return and I am in the legal industry. I will be returning full time but WFH twice a week. I did consider going to four days a week, but it wasn't worth the pay cut and by WFH I still get full pay but also get more time with my family as I am not spending time commuting.

I have been told however that by reducing my "visibility" in the office, it could harm my career progression.

[Teddygirlonce]

I have worked flexibly for the past four years and loved it BUT it is quite hard to keep within the contracted working hours time-frame.

[NerrSnerr]

My workplace is very flexible, as long as you do the job and you turn up for team meetings you can do your hours whenever you want. They also actively encourage working from home as we don’t have enough desks. It makes the job much easier.

[woofmiaowwoof]

I work 95% from home, and I can do my hours anytime between 8-8, this gives the company flexibility too if they have slightly out of hours calls - works well for IT support type jobs. The flexibility makes me very loyal to the firm - they're also very family friendly in other ways - sick days that are child related, Christmas shows etc.

[Offred]

I think quite honestly flexible working (for employees) is only something those with relatively high status and stable careers can access.

The majority of people, IMO, do not have stable or secure jobs and therefore their priority issues are around getting enough work (around caring for dc) to be able to afford to live.

Flexible working requests are not even on their radar.

I also think there is a massive north/south divide re jobs with flexible working as a possibility.

[justme93]

I work from home and have done for nearly 3 years now. In fact the only time I see my work colleagues is at the annual Christmas meal. I’ve earned my stripes - 15 years in the corporate industry I became a reliable trusted employee. Back then I was an EA and worked for various senior management. I then took a career break to be a Stay at home mother, was hunted down by a previous colleague who had an opportunity for me to be part of a growing organisation (all female I should add).. and because I had earned my reputation was handed a very nice opportunity to work flexibly from home around the school runs and countless sickness bugs! My employees get it - most are mothers themselves but also very senior career drive women. I’m very proud to be part of that and long may it continue.

[SellFridges]

I have a large degree of flexibility, and actually it’s what I would count as one of the key benefits to working for my company. It’s probably the number one thing that makes me stay.

A sample week for me would be:

Monday: WFH. Check emails around 7am and respond to anything urgent. Take DD to school at 8:30, get home at 9:05 and work through to 5. Probably wash and dry three loads of washing and prep dinner while on calls.

Tuesday: Office. Drop DS at Nursery at 7:45 and arrive in the office just after 8. Leave at 5:30. Probably fiddle with my Ocado order online during particularly boring calls.

Wednesday. Repeat Monday except I often go into the office so don’t do the washing!

Thursday. Repeat Tuesday except leave by 5pm as DD has football that evening.

Friday. Repeat Mon morning routine, pop until slimming world on the way home from school so start work at 9:30. Ocado arrives at some point during the morning and I take a very short lunch. Multiple loads of washing done and I finish work at 3pm to collect DD.

Some weeks there will be appointments or assemblies etc etc but I just jiggle things to Fit them in.

So my average working hours are 37, and I am contracted to do 36. That’s not counting the meetings I do in the evenings and other catch up I do then too. So working flexibly is beneficial to me and the business.

[LBOCS2]

I do it. I was approached by a respected company in my field and we negotiated my working hours - I do three days a week, 38 weeks a year. As some PPs have pointed out though, it's much easier to have and be offered it if you've earned your stripes in your industry already - I've got ten years' niche experience in a very small industry, which makes me a valuable commodity. I suspect it would be different if that weren't the case - it still feels like companies treat it like the price they have to pay in order to get the people they want, rather than flexitime being an acceptable variant of the norm. Having said that, various appeals and specific flexible working job sites are making it much more accessible for both companies and employees to make that approach.

[Iizzyb]

In the last 4 years I have done wfh a day a week, currently work 4 days a week, 8-4 except one day 9.30-5.30 to do school drop off. I can wfh for things like school concerts & just nip out for an hour. I am due to start wfh a day a week in the new yr as well.

But, there is a lot of extra work to do. I am on my way home from a dinner, I have work to do when I get home, I have worked the last 2 evenings & I have had more days out (early starts, late finishes) in the last month than I care to remember.

It is flexible but at a cost to me. I am still essentially doing a full time job in 4 days but that is better than doing 6 days' work in 5. I am not sure I can keep this up for much longer because it is relentless working evenings on top of days all the tome just to keep all the client work going.

My firm may lose a very experienced, reliable, diligent lawyer because they can't distinguish between the one who is eager to impress & get promotion & me who just wants to do the job & go home & play lego and maybe watch Holby. Surely there is a place for me too? My mentor thinks there is. I don't think my boss is quite on the same page! It is the least worst option currently. My boss is progressive in comparison to most of the other partners here. There is more good than bad overall but it's a close run thing & it always seems better when I compare it to my previous firm which was a total boys' club run by dinosaurs

[JakeBallardswife]

I work flexibly 30 hours a week from home. Its busier term time and the expectation is I work some evenings and weekends to cover when work is most crucial to be done.

I can make time for DC's school events whenever necessary.

The flexibility of my job role is really important to me but does mean I work some longer days when necessary due to the business need but this is fine and I can work around these times.

[KavvLar]

I am public sector and agree that you are better placed to get flexible working once you're an employee.

I am incredibly fortunate in that I do 21 hours a week over three days, flexible start and finish, and term time. It is brilliant.

Lots depends on who is managing you though, my manager has confidence in me which means I'm not constantly apologetic for my hours as I see some of my colleagues being.

It also depends on your reputation and what you can achieve in your time. I estimate I produce the output and value of a full time staff member.

There's a website called 2to3 days or something similar which aims to address this issue and has lots of flexible jobs advertised.

[Chewbecca]

I work flexibly as a senior manager in the head office of a huge banking group. I work 70% hours (3.5 days per week) & do some of those at home. Some things I would note

• I worked for the organisation before I shortened my hours, they were agreed after mat leave (& have changed over the years as I moved through nursery, school etc).
  
• I know virtually no one else in the organisation who works part time. No roles are advertised part time. Even when I have changed role, my role has been advertised and hired as full time
  
• I have to work extra hard to prove my worth and to prove that I can deliver and be useful despite not working FT. This takes time, most new colleagues initially see me as 'the part timer' but, over time, I bring people round. I try to be a role model for senior part time working, I feel the need to prove it can be successful
  
• on that note, I try to be extra helpful and flexible. I make sure I respond to requests and messages and try to attend out of hours meetings and events. I really don't want anyone to be able to say 'well, that's because she's PT'. I want to slowly but surely convince everyone that being PT is not detrimental.
  
• you need to be in the right sort of role. One role I held required fixed monthly deadlines and long hours at those times. My current role has deliverables in 2/3/6/12 months time so I can manage them as I see fit
  
• I LOVE working PT! I think it gives me more energy and enthusiasm than my FT colleagues. I never want to return FT!

[Wishingandwaiting]

There is a female manager, more senior than my immediate bosses who is a huge advocate of work life balance and flexible working

I don’t think the two should be lumped together as it undermines what working from home is. It’s not necessarily about more of a work life balance (although for parents in particular it does often help) and i think lumping the two together sets alarm bells ringing for some decision makers and fellow colleagues.

[moggle]

I'm in the civil service and went back after maternity leave PT, 3 days a week (22.2 hours I think). There was no issue with requesting this, I think I would've been considered unusual if I hadn't requested any chance to working pattern. In my agency it isn't just mums either there are many dads working compressed or PT; and people with other caring responsibilities. there is definitely a culture of acceptance of flexible or part time working. I additionally could quite easily wfh but have never really bothered as the office is only a15-20 min drive away. PT working for me has meant my DH can continue working in London in a demanding job with long ish hours and I can do all pick ups etc. If DD is sick there is usually no issue with me staying home with her; either catching up while she naps, swapping my days, or we have 5 days a year special leave which can be used (if I had used all that then unpaid leave would be an option).
The down side is that it's the civil service, -and while we're not in London, were just outside the m25 in a very expensive area (actually our site borders the m25!). We get no london allowance and our pay is terrible but nursery etc is a huge whack (£74 a day). We only manage it because DD only goes to nursery two days and my parents, PIL and I look after her on the third day.
I'm now pregnant with twins and unfortunately childcare for three is going to be quite a lot more than my salary, even if they're only going two days a week and I work three. So it's looking likely that I will quit after mat leave this time. Disappointing because I don't really want to stop working but the job itself is just OK really; I'll find something else to do when the twins turn 3.

I certainly agree with those who say that they feel a bit trapped by their employer's flexibility. I've not even considered moving despite poor pay and little opportunities for promotion due to being sure I couldn't find anything better so close to home.

[Beach11]

I work in the education sectors and unfortunately flexible working is dismissed from the get go. So much so I didn’t even request it.
Some sectors really need to up their game otherwise there will be a staffing crisis