Dyspraxia and seeing

[aloha]

Hi Saker!

Ok, can't post much tonight as off for dinner, but yes, ds doesn't follow a point at all well even now (4 in Sept) and will point very, very vaguely. He can't find ANYTHING - even stuff that's right in front of him, is hopeless with jigsaws as finds it so hard to see the pattern if it's not joined up...does any of this sound familiar? Do you think it's part of dyspraxia?

[sis]

Pollyanna, Cat me and I will let you have the details - the OT we saw was in central London but she lives in South London. If that is too far for you, it may be worth having a word with her to ask if she could recommend anyone nearer to were you live.

the OT was based in the same building that the paediatric nuerologist who gave ds his original assessment and diagnosis - and we went with the OT as we had no other recommendations!

[Saker]

LizS

It is worth looking at the Dyscovery centre chat board (my favourite place ). There is some discussions on their about touch typing programmes suitable for dyspraxic children. Many of them use an alphasmart I think.

[LIZS]

oh and I'd be interested in any recommendations for an OT - we'd be in East Surrey but could travel to London if need be during holidays.

[LIZS]

Interesting about the piano . ds has been playing xylophones in music lessons and they did a little piece at a recent concert - he did as well as the others, memorising the sequence of notes, rhythm and coordinating his hand movements - I was amazed. A teacher we met at his new school asked whether he had learnt to touch type - is that something anyone else has come across ?

[Saker]

Thanks for the offer Sis. We live in Cambridgeshire so London would be quite possible although a bit of journey. I'm not sure we would try to see another person immediately but I would like to know that it is an option especially for when he is a bit older so I will CAT you for the name if that is okay. Where did you get the name from originally - is there a register or anything?

[Pollyanna]

sis, that sounds very similar to my ds (also aged 6). Who did you see in London? We live in London too - I would really like to find a good OT for him to see this summer.

My ds has a dx of dyspraxia (and s.i.d, and adhd and damp and lots of other dx at other times too - it is too confusing for words) - but he has no problems with sight - and in fact, he was freakily good at jigsaws from a very early age. He also really enjoyed trampolining, and it seemed to help him, and also playing the piano. I have also heard that horse riding is good for dyspraxic children.

[mum38]

Thanks for the link Saker I think I will do this with him

[sis]

Saker, whereabouts are you? we had a great occupational therapist who specialised in sensory integration in London last year - there were some truly impressive cahnges in ds whilst he had OT (he had about seven sessions over the summer holidays lasting about 45 minutes to an hour). If would like to know more or get her contact details, feel free to CAT me.

BTW, ds is now 6 years old and has been variously disagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum, having dyspraxia and having sensory integration disorder.

[Saker]

Trouble is if your Ds is like mine he probably has all the animals categorised in his head already anyway !

If you did want to do a scrapbook, I got lots of good animal pictures from here which is just a catalogue for toy animals but they look really nice and they are very clear and easy to see what they are.

[mum38]

Saker -the scrapbook idea sounds great -ds2 would love an animals section and maybe a starwars section but also have little interest in the clothes page

[Saker]

There is a very long thread on the Dyscovery Centre website about problems with toilet training and accidents in children with dyspraxia, I'm sure it must be related. I think it might be related to the problems with body awareness and maybe muscle tone. We haven't even begun toilet training Ds2 who is 3y10m. He never tells us if he has done a poo or wee and never wants to be changed. I keep putting it off but will have a try in the summer holidays.

Also on the Dyscovery Centre discussion board I remember reading that a few parents had tried their dyspraxic children with the piano with quite a bit of success, so it is definitely worth bearing in mind for the future, Aloha.

Tallulah, somebody posted a question on the Dyscovery Centre board about driving (it might have been you of course.) Amanda Kirby suggested learning in an automatic car.

We are lucky to have a big garden so bought a proper trampoline with a safety net which Ds2 absolutely loves. He can't jump but can run around on it and the physio said it is one of the few things that can actually improve muscle tone. When he first went on he couldn't stand up for more than a few seconds, now he can balance even if I jump next to him. It has really helped his balance and stability, I would really recommend it to anyone who has the space. And he is quite confident on bouncy castles, trampolines with other children etc - it is one of the few things where I don't feel he is left out.

Mum38, our SALT suggests the categories thing to us also. We are making a scrapbook of things in categories, animals, clothes etc. So far we have about 5 pages of animals (which Ds2 loves) all categorised into farm, zoo, sea etc. On the other hand, the page with clothes on has only 4 things on it and I think I had to stick all of them on myself .

[tallulah]

DS1 has dyspraxia, which was dx as an "aside" ("well we don't know what's wrong with him other than the dyspraxia") when he was about 6.

He crawled at the normal time, walked unaided at 11 months & started talking at 15 months. He was very clumsy & once we had ds2 it was obvious there was something wrong- the baby could do things he couldn't. He learned to ride a bike when he was about 9, & went over the handlebars & smashed in his front teeth.

He has worn glasses since he was 3 & had problems with things "disappearing" once they crossed the midline. He also was unaware of where his body was in space & had to look at his arms & legs to see where they were. He had a most peculiar gait and a variety of facial tics. Writing has always been a chore, & as for laces and zips- we just avoided them altogether!! Funnily enough he was the earliest of my four to toilet train & the only one to not have accidents, tho he sat on the toilet like a girl until he was 6 or 7, rather than stand.

He is now almost 18 & is studying for A levels and holding down a part time job. We now have the problem of whether he will be able to drive

[Kittypickle]

My DD's problems with speech have been more to do with pronounciation although she does sometimes struggle to get the right words. When she had physio, the physio got her to move her tongue and I was suprised at how hard she found this. She couldn't move it upwards at all and struggled to move it sideways. The physio warned me that what will happen is that her mouth and jaw will grow and she will struggle again periodically. This seems to be happening atm, not helped by the loss of her two front teeth bless her !

[LIZS]

Agree Aloha , toilet unreliability was one of the factors which prompted ds'teacher to talk to us about his motor issues. He was almost 6 but had a few accidents in the 6 months she had taught him - mainly when he was out of his routine and didn't go before they left for an impromptu walk for example. ds really likes structure to his time and he plans things such that if we try to alter them without telling him he gets really wound up.

He never pedalled his trike properly, whereas dd could do it from before 3, but was gradually able to on a bike, the leg position and pressure is more downwards than across so perhaps more natural. Hopping is pretty recent too. One of the exercises from ds'OT is to balance on one leg and then put the opposite hand onto the raised knee and hold. It is supposed to help with crossing the midline mentioned earlier.

[aloha]

In a way it's nice to hear of other dyspraxic children with toilet training probs - keep being told it's not connected with dyspraxia but if you have a very unsure sense of your own body it makes sense to me that potty training will be harder. Also he never seems to realise he is hungry! Loves chocolate etc and will ask for it, but doesn't seem to recognise hunger until he is desperate.
He certainly can't even begin to hop! Ah well, I expect he will get there in the end.
And saw him today at nursery happy in one of those toy cars without pedals where you just shuffle your feet - he can only go downhill!

[mum38]

Aloha -about the pedalling a trike. My ds2 couldn't do this at nursery-it was on his IEP for 3 terms! He finally did it in the holidays between nursery and reception. With all his big motor skills he has been that bit late - he mastered hoping last year (age 5) about a year- later than his peers. Also about dressing skills -putting on his coat, zips, getting changed for PE. It's worth asking the school if they can help with these skills too-ds2 put his coat and zipped it up at school first. They were all on ds2's IEP during reception.

With the toilet training I am finally getting to the stage of not automatically taking a change of clothes with us everywhere we go (ds2 is nearly 6). He was very slow to potty train-and then had accidents of both kinds until he was 5-5.5. What helped iintially was letting him go without anything on his bottom half for a week so he didn't have to worry about pulling trousers up and down. Then putting him in the lightest, easiest cotton shorts to pull up and down. I can remember thinking it is never going to happen!! Also he needed extra fibre (pear a day) because if he was the least bit constipated he seemed to have no sensation to have a poo. (sorry if you have tried all this but thought I would mention it in case it is of use)

Saker- ds2 is very similar as if hs brain is wired up strangely and he can't break the loop. When he's excited you can almost see the effort it costs to drag the words up from somewhere. Also he has a slight "processing delay" before responding to a question. One SALT we saw suggested doing lots of categories with ds2 to get him to organise his brain (I've put that badly but hopefully you know what I mean). So when I remember we sort the fruit from the veg and farm animals from zoo animals. It's so hard to find the time to do everything...

ds2 was in his buggy until 4 then when onto a buggy board until 5. He is now finally walking to school on his own although it hardwork. I mean't to mention his other dyspraxic traits are dribbling alough this is finally improving and lack to strength is his fingers/hands and poor upper body stability. Also he has a poor sensory image of his body -in the bath I get him to close his eyes and guess which part of his body I am washing with a flannel-he finds this so hard. It's an exercise the OT gave us -I was so surprised how unaware of his body he is!

I am still confused as to whether is speech and language problems are dyspraxia or something else.....

[aloha]

Interesting about the piano. Have thought about this for ds when he is a little older (maybe five) as he loves music, seems to have a good ear and loves pianos!
My ds just lies down on bouncy castles - rather nerve-racking that, esp with larger kids around.
He uses a mini-trampoline at his OT playgroup but doesn't love it so don't think he would use it if we bought one.

[LIZS]

SG, the reason we are concerned about ds' visual tracking is as you describe - losing his place in a book even though he reads well and difficulties in copying from a board, compounded by his motor difficulties affecting the mechanics of writing. As it is not naturally improving, even with specific exercises from his OT, we may now need to involve a specialist. I was told that it is not uncommon for visual tracking problems to be apparent in under 7's but they should self correct by now. The sensory type issues you describe I think could apply to a number of conditions, which may overlap, - recently described on MN as the Olympic rings - or exist on their own.

We went to a party at a play centre last weekend and ds' problems with jumping were so evident on the trampoline. His friends, many years younger, were throwing themselves higher and higher whilst he just jumped as normal and didn't seem able to feel the rebound or use it to propel himself. However at least he tried and had fun, and he is getting better at trying things he would have previously opted out of.

[Kittypickle]

Definitely a very interesting thread. DD is in Year 1, she's 6 and got a dx of dyspraxia a year ago. She's also got hypermobility and speech and language delay according to one report from the paed. She was slow to roll but fine for sitting, crawling and walking, but after that she was pretty slow to meet the milestones - watching her try to jump was completely painful. I remember watching her in the playground in nursery trying desperately to pedal and toilet training was a nightmare (and we still have occasional lapse)Struggles with the pushing down a handle and pushing the door bit. Feeding has been a struggle. It took her until the end of the first term of reception until she could do anything near a short version of her name, due to her pencil grip etc. I always had to hold her hand when she was little as she was forever tripping over something. And she finds it really hard to see something on the floor right in front of her. She's not a big fan of jigsaws etc. In the Madeleine Portman book (or whatever her name is, I've lent it out) she does say that some children with dyspraxia seem to do all the early milestones until they are approx 14 months, which definitely seems to be the position with my DD.

The good news is that her school have been really good, she's got an IEP and has a session with the SENCO each week where they do some brain gym type stuff. She started doing drama which she loves as she's always been very imaginative and she's learning the piano which seems to be helping her as it gives her an auditory feedback to the amount of pressure she exerts, which she found a problem with writing. The combination of the help at school and her increased confidence from doing piano and drama (both of which she wanted to do, I cringed a bit when she came home from school with a note about tennis sessions though !)and fish oils, seem to have made a huge difference to her. She's so much more confident, which has an effect on her social skills. Her writing has improved beyond belief, would have been unthinkable a year ago and she's really enjoying reading to herself.

[singersgirl]

How old is your DD1, Pamina3? We had the backward pedalling going nowhere business with DS1 for ages and it was so frustrating, and now it seems that DS2 (4 in August,who in many ways seems a bit less physically discombobulated) can't pedal either and does that backward thing.Aaagh!
Forgot to mention that DS1 (7 in August) also had poor articulation (still quite unclear speech), dribbled late, had chewing problems (particularly meat, though he now seems OK with it - he would chew one mouthful for 15 minutes and seem unable to swallow up until a year ago), some sensory issues (chewing clothing, hates nails being cut, used to think the wind was going to blow his hair away, cried when we put him bare legged on grass.....).
Do those all sound dyspraxic-ish symptoms?
He can follow a point though and spot something he's interested in at 100 paces, so doesn't really fit the title of this thread - sorry!
I do wonder about his visual tracking though, because for ages when reading he would lose his place, and he copies pretty inaccurately.
He's a lovely boy, but somewhat 'out of the mainstream' - he'll go around saying things like "How splendid! I find that quite amusing actually!" When he's obsessed with something, he's so obsessed that many of his friends just don't get it - right now it's Doctor Who and all his various regenerations.
Right, I'll go now - sorry for butting in on the thread, but every time I read stuff about dyspraxic children so much of it makes me think of DS1.

[aloha]

My ds still fits into his pushchair which my mum uses with him. With me he goes on the buggy board though I try to make him walk as much as poss to try to build his strength up. Hard work though.

[aloha]

Aaah! That sounds like ds - 'look at me jumping!' as he scurries along. Bless.
I'm not sure he could make a toy car move in any meaningful way even without pedals.
Dh takes ds to nursery - its' a two minute walk for me, but ds takes him on his back. I walk back with him but it takes FOREVER! And honestly it is literally a two minute brisk walk from our front door!

[Saker]

BH

See the website I posted further down this thread for info on behavioural optometry.

Aloha, I would talk to the nursery staff. Maybe you could use a push along without pedals? I hate walking to school with Ds2 in his major buggy while all the other kids are pedalling their trikes, scooters etc. Ds2 never says anything but sometimes I notice he is watching them.

But most of the time he seems unaware. He was showing me his "jumps" yesterday, which consist of him running towards the sofa and throwing himself on !

[aloha]

I am actually quite worried about the pedal push. Will talk to nursery staff about it, I think. Ds is blissfully unaware of any differences most of the time, and I don't want him to feel as if it is a problem if he can't do stuff.