9 year old can't read

[Helena2000]

Hello everyone,
I'm feeling a bit lost and am looking for some advice.
My Dd is 9, and cannot read or spell.
She has no diagnosis of anything but school have placed her on their SEN register.
What this means in reality is that she gets taken out of class every day in to a group of 3 children and a TA to do different work to the rest of the class. The other 2 children have severe behavioural needs which the TA struggles to manage whilst my DD sits there not receiving any attention or input because she is well behaved and compliant.
School did a dyslexia screen which they've told me shows that she is not dyslexic.
I'm at a loss as to why she has such a significant learning delay in reading, spelling and also maths.
She is incredibly intelligent. She's bright, alert, astute, is fully engaged with the world around her, has a brilliant sense of humour, is extremely empathetic, kind, gentle, so very thoughtful, notices so much of what's going on around her and is very in tune with other people's feelings and emotions. She adores art, dance, stories - her favourite thing in the world is to be read to, animals, nature, playing, swimming, crafting. She's highly imaginative, loves playing with her sibling and her friends, she has friends who love her, her older sibling literally adores her, she is the chattiest little girl ever - she chats away to me non stop and her use of vocabulary is impressive and very varied, and her comprehension of what new words mean is really impressive. She's affectionate, loving, and just a little angel.
But tonight at bedtime she spent 2 hours crying her eyes out, her little face looked like she was in so much pain. She cried and cried about not being able to read. She told me her greatest wish is to be able to read, and said "I feel so stupid", "I feel so ashamed", "I'm so embarrassed about myself" all through terrible tears. She was clinging on to me, wrapped her whole body around mine, asking me to please help her. She said every day she misses her class lessons because she is taken out of class in to this little group of 3, that she gets no benefit from. She said co.ments from peers who ask her why she can't read are making her feel stupid and worthless.
I have spoken to the SENCO at school about her not benefiting from being in this group, and I was told there are no resources to give her any other input, i.e. not enough staff to offer any alternative.
I don't know how to help or what to do.
I've noticed that I can teach her a word, go over it in repetition, she'll appear to get it, and then within 20 seconds it's gone again and she can't recognise or remember the word.
Some words that I ask her to sound out, she guesses the word based on the 1st letter, or she says words that don't even contain the letters that are in the word I'm trying to teach her to read.
She is a gifted artist for her age, and often draws what she's seen that day, and she'll draw the most incredible detail in something that I can't believe she even noticed. So if she notices and remembers this much detail, how can she not notice the detail in a short word, or remember it through repetition?
School are adament it's not dyslexia because the school screening test came back as normal. I've had this conversation with them several times over.
Another thing is she cannot pronounce her words properly. Examples are that the W in 'Weather' is pronounced with her front teeth on her bottom lip. For Never she says 'Nether'. These are just 2 examples, but she mispronounces words hundreds of times a day. No amount of non-stop, endless correcting of her pronunciation by me ever, ever teaches her to remember how to say the word properly. In fact it's counter productive as it upsets her when I correct her, even though I do it in a softly spoken, swing and encouraging way. She just gets really frustrated.
She has very, very poor short term memory, but excellent long term memory.
She struggles to follow instructions that have more than 2 steps involved, or with any instruction that's too complex.
She regularly says "What?" "Pardon?" "Can you say that again please?" But it's not to do with her hearing ad she can hear a pin drop in the distance! She's had her hearing tested and it's good. It's more as though she is asking the person to repeat themselves so that she can give herself more time to process what they've said before she responds.
She needs a lot of time. Extra time to do things. Rushing her if we're late sends her in to a complete meltdown and she says she can't cope with hurrying up or rushing.
School teachers and SENCO don't even seem worried. Every school year is the same; unworried teachers. Every ADPR meeting is met with a teacher gushing with enthusiasm, telling me she's a pleasure to teach and that she's wonderful at drawing and popular with peers. I get inwardly really cross. I'm not there to hear about her drawing. And the teacher doesn't teach her. A TA does. And I happen to know the TA outside of school and she is new to the role and has no experience in education whatsoever, comes from a totally unrelated background of work.
I've been told by my local authority she doesn't qualify for an Ed psych referral.
When I relay my concerns to her teacher, she smiles brightly and says "Don't worry! She doesn't need a diagnosis! It makes no difference at all to the way we teach her!" all delivered with a megawatt smile.
she has started constantly apoligising for things she does not need to be apilogising for, and i think this is a sign that her self esteem is being affected, which I cant bear.
I have spent every day of her life telling her and showing her how much I love her. I continuously give her positive feedback, praise, encouragement, I listen to her, I try as hard as i can to give her a happy life filled with different experiences, but its not enough.
Can anyone advise me?
I need to know whats going on.
And my DD is begging me to know what's going on.
Phew, I haven't said all this to anyone in real life. Thanks for listening!

[Helena2000]

Apologies for all the terrible in my post!
It's my annoying auto text, and I made the mistake of not reading it through and correcting the text before posting it!

[Helena2000]

Terrible typos I mean😳.

Hoping someone will answer....

[openupmyeagereyes]

The memory thing sounds like she has processing issues. Have you looked at any online screenings for dyslexia yourself? I wonder how effective the school’s is. Likewise with the pronunciation I’d be seeking SALT advice. Have you spoken to the GP about your concerns?

She likely has very good visual skills which is why she can notice and remember visual details. My ds had a cognitive assessment last term and had below average processing skills and above average visual skills.

It sounds like school are not going to help you out. If it were me and I were able I’d be throwing some money at it, perhaps starting with an educational psychologist.

https://www.readandspell.com/what-is-processing-speed#:~:text=Kids%20with%20slow%20processing%20have,have%20trouble%20tuning%20out%20distractions.

[Jellycats4life]

Sounds like you need a second opinion on the dyslexia. Possibly ADHD too. You’ve described textbook auditory processing disorder (my two kids both say “pardon?” or “what?”, not because they didn’t hear, they just didn’t process) and issues with working memory.

It will all be linked, I promise you. The school are being very poor indeed but sadly I’m not surprised.

[OvertakenByLego]

You should request an EHCNA yourself. On their website IPSEA has a model letter you can use. Don’t listen to anyone saying DD doesn’t qualify or it is not needed. If the LA agree to assess the needs assessment will include an ed psych assessment, and it can include SALT and OT. The screenings aren’t always accurate. 

The school is right that a diagnosis isn’t necessary. Support in school is based on needs. But, the school should be doing far more than they are to actually provide that support. If they need more funding they should have requested an EHCNA or at least applied for high needs top up funding.

DD’s verbal skills sound good, so has she tried a scribe and/or assistive technology such as speech to text software and text to speech software?

[Quisquam]

As pp has said, it sounds like an auditory processing disorder? It will have knock on effects in reading and writing. She can hear perfectly well, but her brain can’t process the sounds. For instance, you might say “cat” but all her brain processes is “a” or “at” - if she doesn’t have a reliable representation of the word “cat” in her word store, how is she going to be able to find it to say or spell it? Would she recognise the word “cat” in reading? If you showed her the word “cat”, can she break it down (aka segment) into sounds c - a - t; and then blend it to say “cat”?

What is her grammar like - does she get the suffixes on words like “ing”, “ed”, plurals right?

While ITA with pp, DD needs assessing by an ed psy, SALT and OT; it’s a SALT’s job to look at auditory and phonological processing.

[itsmyp4rty]

Can you have her properly assessed for dyslexia? It costs around £350. That is definitely the first thing I would do as it sounds completely like dyslexia and school aren't experts by any means.

Just saw this - Research indicates up to 70% of individuals with dyslexia have an underlying auditory processing disorder (APD).
This could be what's going on for you daughter and for her to properly understand why she struggles could make the world of difference to her. Don't listen to the school or her teacher.

[SachiLars]

Got to say (as a teacher myself) the school doesn’t seem to be doing enough to find out what the issue is.

They’re likely telling the truth about the lack of funding meaning she can’t have 1-1, but they should be finding out what the issue is. I’d also expect the SENCO to have a broad enough knowledge to be able to suggest what issues might be if they are convinced it’s not dyslexia.

Ask who did the screening? How qualified are they to do it? Also a screening and an assessment aren’t the same.

Your DS sounds ace. I hope you can keep her believing that.

[SachiLars]

*DD

also if SENDCO isn’t doing a good job, go to the headteacher.

[Pixie4192]

Hi OP, I am in a very similar situation with my DD, 8. She he has an EHCP but it doesn’t mean she’s getting the right provision - again similar to your daughter, DD is also very compliant at school but there’s a few in her class that share a TA that have severe behavioural needs. My dd is speech delayed which is a factor and very intelligent otherwise, I believe my dd could have dyspraxia, that’s also linked to reading delays.

no specific advice, sorry but you aren’t alone. The school seem pants! We are in a very similar situation and I worry myself sick about it!

[OvertakenByLego]

@Pixie4192 if DD’s EHCP isn’t meeting her needs you should request an early review.

[cowgirl42]

Hi, Just wanted to say my daughter sounds a lot like yours. She is seven though. She has recently been diagnosed with developmental language disorder. It’s really common. She also struggles with reading, maths and speech and language but behaviour is generally lovely. Maybe seeks attention from adults a bit much but otherwise kind, polite, helpful and inclusive to all.

[Helena2000]

Thank you for your ongoing supportive messages, I appreciate it enormously.
I have now secured a bank loan and have booked her in for a private dyslexia assessment.
I'm a bit nervous financially because it is costing £700 and if it turns out she isn't dyslexic then I will be repaying a £700 loan to have found out she isn't. But if it turns out she is then it will be the best £700 I've ever spent.
Ideally I'd have loved to book her in with an Ed Psych so that she could have a much broader assessment, but I have really struggled to find EdPsychs, and of the 2 that I have found they quoted £1,500 - £1,700, which I just can't afford.
But if it turns out she's not dyslexic after her assessment I will probably wish I'd put the £700 towards saving up for an EdPsych!
It's so hard to book with the right person and I feel like I'm not knowledgeable enough about learning delays to have confidence in who I'm choosing to book her in with.
And I've started feeling kind of angry that I'm being forced in to taking matters in to my own hands and forced down the private route......I feel a bit unreasonable for feeling like this, it's a new feeling which I wasn't expecting to have. I'm not an angry person!
Completely unsupported by DH too, which is hard. He's not supporting this emotionally, mentally or financially, so I feel completely alone on this journey.

[openupmyeagereyes]

Did you have a chat with them on the phone about your dd before you booked?

What does your dh think is the reason she’s struggling?

[Helena2000]

@openupmyeagereyes

Did you have a chat with them on the phone about your dd before you booked?

What does your dh think is the reason she’s struggling?

Yes, I had a long chat with the assessor, and she sounded brilliant, supportive and very knowledgeable. Actually I had long chats with a few different assessors before choosing this one.

In answer to your question, DH says "She'll catch up, she's bright" and he then moves on. He's blind to the struggles she faces. I've spelt it out to him countless times. The thing is at home she's smiley and happy and playful and fully engaged with us and her sibling and constantly demonstrates how bright she is, so based on this, he says "She'll be fine" and doesn't engage with me any further about it.

[Helena2000]

@Helena2000

Thank you for your ongoing supportive messages, I appreciate it enormously.
I have now secured a bank loan and have booked her in for a private dyslexia assessment.
I'm a bit nervous financially because it is costing £700 and if it turns out she isn't dyslexic then I will be repaying a £700 loan to have found out she isn't. But if it turns out she is then it will be the best £700 I've ever spent.
Ideally I'd have loved to book her in with an Ed Psych so that she could have a much broader assessment, but I have really struggled to find EdPsychs, and of the 2 that I have found they quoted £1,500 - £1,700, which I just can't afford.
But if it turns out she's not dyslexic after her assessment I will probably wish I'd put the £700 towards saving up for an EdPsych!
It's so hard to book with the right person and I feel like I'm not knowledgeable enough about learning delays to have confidence in who I'm choosing to book her in with.
And I've started feeling kind of angry that I'm being forced in to taking matters in to my own hands and forced down the private route......I feel a bit unreasonable for feeling like this, it's a new feeling which I wasn't expecting to have. I'm not an angry person!
Completely unsupported by DH too, which is hard. He's not supporting this emotionally, mentally or financially, so I feel completely alone on this journey.

Edited

Sorry, just to elaborate, just read my post back and realised it's not clear what I meant.....
I didn't mean I haven't got the confidence to know if I'm booking with the right person in terms of who is the best/right Dyslexia person to choose. I mean I don't have any confidence in myself to choose between a Dyslexia assessor and an EdPsych. Because I don't have enough knowledge about these areas.
As I said, EdPsych has been surprisingly really difficult to find, and of the 2 I have managed to fnd I can't afford.....So I'm going for Dyslexia assessment. But I'm not confident I've chosen the right type of assessment i.e. Dyslexia versus EdPsych assessment. Because I don't actually know if she's Dyslexic or not.

[SusiePevensie]

From what you've said your DH is mostly right. She is bright and she can catch up, but she'll need a bit of help on the way.

[Jellycats4life]

Oh @Helena2000 I’m sorry you feel so unsupported by your husband. Unfortunately, in my experience, dads can be very reluctant (obstructive even) to the idea of their children having any kind of SEN.

FWIW I went behind his back to get our daughter referred for an autism assessment. He never disputed the eventual diagnosis and is on board now, but it was a very lonely time for me so I sympathise with you.

I know what you mean about the cost of Ed Psych assessments. I have two kids who would benefit from one but I just can’t afford it.

Good luck with the dyslexia assessment and I hope you get some answers.

[Jellycats4life]

@SusiePevensie

From what you've said your DH is mostly right. She is bright and she can catch up, but she'll need a bit of help on the way.

This is wrong. My nephew is dyslexic, and although he is bright and articulate with a flair for making videos and writing songs, he struggles tremendously with reading, writing and maths at school. He hasn’t caught up and is at the end of primary school now.

[OvertakenByLego]

EPs have long waiting lists at the moment, sadly. A result of how many parents are needing to appeal to SENDIST at the moment. EPs are more expensive than dyslexia assessors, but their reports are far more comprehensive.

If you would have to take a loan to pay have you thought about requesting an EHCNA. If the LA agree to assess it will include an EP report. If they don’t and you appeal you may be able to get funding for or towards an independent report.

[Helena2000]

@OvertakenByLego

EPs have long waiting lists at the moment, sadly. A result of how many parents are needing to appeal to SENDIST at the moment. EPs are more expensive than dyslexia assessors, but their reports are far more comprehensive.

If you would have to take a loan to pay have you thought about requesting an EHCNA. If the LA agree to assess it will include an EP report. If they don’t and you appeal you may be able to get funding for or towards an independent report.

What is an ECCNA?
How does this differ from an EHCP?
Thanks.

[OvertakenByLego]

The EHCNA is the needs assessment you first request when going through the EHCP process,

[openupmyeagereyes]

If she is dyslexic then she will need specific help to learn to read. Dyslexia doesn’t mean that she isn’t bright but at the moment her lack of reading must be hindering her academic progress. In the US they favour the Orton-gillingham method which is a multi-sensory phonics approach but I don’t know what the go-to here is. Your specialist should be outlining what she needs.

I’m no expert but I imagine that you might still get useful information out of the assessment even if she isn’t dyslexic. Perhaps others can confirm or refute this.

[Helena2000]

Hello,
I just wanted to update this thread because there were some very helpful and detailed replies.
We got a private assessment in the end and DD has been diagnosed with severe dyslexia and poor working memory.
This has been incredibly helpful in aiding our understanding.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply to me.

[Sammyspurs]

@Helena2000

Hello,
I just wanted to update this thread because there were some very helpful and detailed replies.
We got a private assessment in the end and DD has been diagnosed with severe dyslexia and poor working memory.
This has been incredibly helpful in aiding our understanding.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply to me.

Where about in the country are you OP? Do you know that there are specialist dyslexia schools that you can name on the EHCP as parental presence- this can be a private school also- good luck