Hahaha! Think I may have backed LA into a corner!

[youarenotkiddingme]

Many will know my back story and the shite ds and I have been through.

If you don't then the information needed so far is tribunal ordered they assess.

La played extension of assessment when I requested some reasonable inputs from professionals. I didn't comment.

I've recently received some paperwork with includes the oh so illegal statements "higher level of support" "may benefit from" etc.

I sat on this and with a week to go until decision just emailed and asked them politely how they decide whether is issue or not without specified and quantified inputs from assessment.

The email I got back days "it's in draft stage and now we ......"

So I've emailed thanking them for informing me it's in draft stage and asking for date I'll receive the draft!

Now let's pre empt how they are going to get out of their mistake and if anyone has advice about where I now stand legally I'd be grateful.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Ive just dug out the la guidence. It says ^if we think an EHC plan is necessary we will inform you in writing, providing copies of all the reports and a copy of the draft plan. You have 15 days from receipt to let us have your views^

So they haven't done this but they did email to say it's in draft stage. And the bit about sending to school is not part of their guidence. It's also not anything like the law!

Sossen have late night calls so I'll try them and ask them how to proceed. I don't want to piss the LA off and make them fight back harder (that's how mine play it!) but I also don't want them changing deadlines every few weeks as they are and telling me any old information to avoid answering my question about the specific bit.

I get the feeling they are trying to bamboozle me and I need to make sure I reply clearly and factually about the law and what they should be doing.

[tartanterror]

I think they have to say within 16 weeks of request to assess (must be different for appeals? Maybe 10 weeks from start of assessment?) if they are not going to issue a Draft EHCP, which can be appealed. But I think they have to issue a Draft EHCP by week 14.... What week are you in youarenotkiddingme?

Does anyone know what happens if they don't write in that time? Is it possible to insist on getting an EHCP if they drift through the 16 week deadline?

[youarenotkiddingme]

From the 6 weeks to needing to issue a draft is 13th. For the 16 weeks of telling me they won't issue is 27th.

They told me they will complete assessment by 17th originally.

Now they've told me plan is in draft stage.

Then told me still assessing and draft will be sent to school and panel and they "hope" it'll be done by end Feb/beg march.

They are just doing what the fuck they please. They are sending so much information that isn't even close to what needs to be done via the statutory process it's unreal. Even my indi advisor could t work it out and referred me to a website that provide legal support.

It's basically a game to them. Avoid answering questions and keep giving such ridiculous information no one can work out what they are doing and therefore make the parents life more difficult.

It was interesting when o spoke to sossen that they suspected my LA before I even told them. They are known for it.

[youarenotkiddingme]

But the main issue is I asked them about who would specify and quantify to make an informed decision whether to issue or not and they emailed back that the ehcp is in draft stage.

But then it's in assessment stage and suddenly they've decided to extend that deadline beyond the original one I was given (which was 18 days later than the first one I was given).

Then they say the draft will be issued and sent to school to see if they can meet need. Then it will go to panel - then to me if they decide to issue.

It's an absolute load of bollocks and they really are making it difficult.

[Userone1]

Legally there is not a draft of the draft. They send parents (not school) a draft EHCP, you have 15 days to respond and ask for amendments, name school preference etc. You can back and forward arguing amendments forever.

Most finalise so they have right to appeal, rather than dragging out the asking for amendments stage.

There is no time limit for draft, they can issue sooner or later, BUT final EHCP by week 20.

[knittingwithnettles]

The panel is meant to be semi-independent. If you have already won at Tribunal, and you have further evidence included in the package of information before the panel, it is likely that they will conclude it is not worth going to the expense of going back to Tribunal. It is likely they will decide to issue an EHCP.

Can you just remind them of the statuory guidelines or ask them to remind you what they are, so that you have a log. All this would go before Tribunal if you ever went back for some reason, or appealed the EHCP so they don't want to have evidence that they are totally incompetent or illegal.

Have you thought of cc ing any letter about statutory time frame to your MP? Again, not much fun for them to have the thought of light being shone on their dawdling.

However, I wouldn't get bogged down with complaining about this, just keep sticking to what they should be doing as the SENCOP sets out, I mean the actual bureaucratic bits, not the evidence bits.

[knittingwithnettles]

As user said, if they drag their feet at this stage, they are meant to then speed up the next stage so it is done within 20 weeks. However, our LA just did not issue and did not issue after the amendments due to the naming of the school problem, and my solicitor had to send them a letter threatening JR. Which cost very little and worked immediately, like some sort of laxative I think Moosemama had the same experience with finalising and threatening JR. Anyway, at the moment that is not your problem, but just to let you be aware of the stages...

[Userone1]

When I say there is no draft of a draft, THE draft is a working document. They send draft you either agree with it and finalise or ask for amendments, it can back and forth several times.

They should not be approaching any school regarding needs until you have named your preference.

For the moment you are still at assessment stage, you have pointed out their legal duties to specify etc.

Now you don't need to worry about it until they either a) refuse to issue or b) issue vague draft.

You are wasting your time and energy at this point.

[knittingwithnettles]

I think they are asking school for information, which can be part of the assessment process, if you look at the original remit to ask for information from various sources. I think they have just confused you with the word draft.

As you pointed out, whether the school says it is meeting his needs, is not the point. Unless his needs are properly set out, how can they say what they are and how they are meeting them. Your proper Draft is going to set out his needs first and foremost according to the evidence in the package gathered during assessment, and then in the second half it is going to set out how those needs should be best met, again gathered during assessment through professional recommendation, parental in put(which school could of course be consulted on, maybe if they had more money from LA, there is more they could do for him - I suspect that is why school might not be drawn in, fear that they won't get any extra money from the LA, which is quite likely, without a battle)

[youarenotkiddingme]

So my best bet is just to email and ask them to inform me of the statutory process and timescales?

If they refuse to issue can I go to mediation with them then? As part of yhe appeal against refusal to issue a plan appeal process?

[knittingwithnettles]

I think you need to ask IPSEA, by email, what the legal steps are. I never once spoke to anyone at IPSEA in person. It won't matter that you spoke to SOSSEN, you do not need to mention it. It is obvious that you would appeal against refusal to issue an EHCP, after all your son already had a NIL/PLAN and that didn't work longterm, why would they waste lots of money disputing this with you. No I think they are just going to give you the cheapest easiest EHCP they can think of, and that is where the battle is going to be, getting it written the way you want it written.

Bedtime for me now, sleep well.

[knittingwithnettles]

I would ask IPSEA what the legal timescales are, THEN write to LA saying I understand it is your statuory duty to do x y z within following timescale, can you confirm in writing that this is so and cc it to someone important. Councillor, MP, Head teacher of school.

[Userone1]

IPSEA give timescales, I provided link a few posts ago. By all means ask about timescales (they might try fobbing you off!) or TELL them what the timescales are!

If they refuse to issue, lodge your appeal, then mediate all you want!

They must inform you of decision not to issue by week 16.

In the meantime, just let them get on with it. Youve notified them reports were not specified etc. That will be helpful if you need to appeal.

[knittingwithnettles]

IPSEA has a section called what happens during an EHC needs assessment, and then if you follow through to "resources", you then find a pdf on timelines and on what to check for in a draft. It is all laid out very clearly.

It also has all the statutory guidance on what a proper assessment should consist of, and what the LA are asked to organise.

But this information is not immediately obvious from the title bar, you have to follow the trail!

[youarenotkiddingme]

Yeah I looked at link for timelines. Thanks for posting that.
We started this on 19/12/17 as that's when they wrote to me to inform me they were going to assess.

Think I'll write to them and remind them of timescales and remind them gently that draft comes to parent first before school and needs to arrive by x date!

They won't follow or issue but you are all right if they've flouted the law it's a great place for me to start!

[Userone1]

You cannot include school holidays in your count down. Don't know your ds's Christmas holidays. Let's assume he was on holiday on the 19th Dec. Time will start when he returned, let's say 3 Jan. They are still well within the timescale.

[Userone1]

Does it really matter if they send to school first? Presumably school will say yes of course we can meet extremely vague needs and LA will issue draft.

You can then ask for it to be specified and quantified.

IF after sending it to school they refuse to issue, then you can argue what they did wrong and you have it in writing from them.

[youarenotkiddingme]

I think we are talking cross purposes.

La only have to issue a draft IF they decide after assessment he needs an ehcp.

They are still assessing. I was under the impression they were still assessing as they hadn't told me otherwise.

My question to them was how they would make a decision about issuing or not when the information wasn't specified. E.g.- how can you say his needs can be met with provision available in ms school if you don't have a clear and specific idea of what those needs are.

The email came back saying ehcp is in draft stage.

So I emailed saying could I have it in writing assessment was complete and a date for when I'd receive draft.

The return to that was assessment was still happening and draft being drawn up, the draft would go to school and then panel and if they decide to issue then I'll get a copy to check. This will be sometime in next 4 weeks.

My LA do not issue ehcp for pupils in ms school. They do not issue ehcp where they absolutely can avoid it. It's historic for taking refusal to assess and issue cases to tribunal for children who aren't even attending school due to needs and being unable to.

They wouldn't even back down and assess ds when he wasn't in school due to anxiety and forced it to tribunal. In tribunal they stated again that the school could meet his needs. A school ds hadn't been able to set foot in for 5 months!

They won't issue. But yet their poor wording of the email indicates they are in draft stage. So what I'm hoping is that I can use that to my advantage alongside the fact I've already questioned the specific information bit.
They seem to use this total confusion if the procedure to do what they want. Even my independent advisor was confused about what the hell is going on!

I've simply asked now for clarification of what's happening and I'll keep the information for when I need it.

[Userone1]

LA only have to issue the draft to YOU if after assessing they decide he needs an EHCP.

There is nothing stopping them from drawing up a draft internally and never sending or agreeing.

The confusing bit is why they are sending a draft to school.

There are only 2 outcomes, issue draft or refuse. Which is why i questioned does it really matter if they send to school. Your course of action will remain the same.

Outcome 1 they refuse to issue. You appeal pointing out what they did wrong i.e. Reports not specified etc

Outcome 2 they agree to issue vague EHCP. You appeal pointing out what they did wrong i.e. Reports were not specified etc.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Yeah thanks - I get it now. They confused me by saying they were missing a draft.

Their wording confused the whole issue as the information they gave me was a start is issued if after assessment they decide an ehc plan is needed.

I asked for clarification. It's in assessment stage. They have admitted reports haven't been received that should have been.

They will write up recommendations and then make a decision. They've told me by email they won't make the deadline and I should hear early march.

So you are all right that whatever happens I now have it in writing about the specifics and timescales and can use it later when needed.

[tartanterror]

Fingers crossed for you!

I think the holidays are included in the count - unless the school is closed for a period over 4 weeks - so I was told that usually the summer break is excluded but other holidays are included. Xmas holiday 2 weeks were included in my LA's 6 week period for deciding whether to assess anyway....

Glad you have had some confirmation of dates and timescales. I hope they stick with what they have told you.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Well they have been honest enough to put in writing they are under staffed and running behind. They also know I'm on to them so they've changed tact to nice!

Hopefully that means they will try and stick to the non statutory timescales they've said they will!

[tartanterror]

I just realised you said this: We started this on 19/12/17 as that's when they wrote to me to inform me they were going to assess.
Did you mean 2016?

If so you are only 4 weeks ahead of us and I was expecting a draft plan to turn up (if we are lucky) in the last week in March, so your lot don't sound like they are too late..... am I counting right?

[Userone1]

I think the school holidays thing is a bit confusing and they can use this to try and extend time limits.

The relevant professionals may be term-time only or taking holidays.

[tartanterror]

Sure I agree they try to use holidays ....but I think IPSEA said to me that the Children & Families Act 2014 specifies that only holidays with school closure >4 weeks can be used to extend the deadlines.... can't quote you a clause tho!