Very touching ABA video

[sickofsocalledexperts]

I couldn't resist posting this video showing the great effects ABA has had on twin boys aged 3. Just don't see how anyone could argue early ABA intervention isn't a good thing, after watching this!

[moondog]

No, not weird.
Just curious about learning and how it happens. What's not to like about that?
That is good.
Your curriculum and planning sound ace.

[moondog]

Oh zzzzzz, you are in for a real treat.
This is such an effective way to learn and so much fun.
I am a huge fan.
Enjoy

[moondog]

What?
Tying shoelaces?

[moondog]

This is another fun one.
Theresa at the home of two behaviour analysts in Iceland, who have not been able to teach their kid to tie his laces. Theresa of course speaks no Icelandic, nor the child English.....

[moondog]

Yes. I would add that as children's speech and language develop, this is where behaviour analysts need help from s/lts. For example, I have seen many BAs working on sound production which is very difficult to do without a background in phonetics and phonology. All sounds are categorised in three different ways, voice, place and manner and BAs haven't a clue how to approach this systematically.
There is an excellent American s/lt and behaviour analyst called Joanne Gerenser who writes very well about this stuff. Also another American, Barb Esch who is an s/lt and behaviour analyst. I love her stuff.

Star, yes of course it could work. Have you seen the plethora of TAGteach videos online showing this? He's one in which it is the lovely Theresa McKeon of TAGteach instructing. She is brilliant.

[salondon]

Yes Moondog, after wasting 2 years on speech and language, we started VB. now our program is at a place were the techniques dished out back then are useful.

[GloriaTheHighlyFavouredLady]

I'm gonna get my two kids to teach each other how to tie shoe laces after they get one each in their Christmas stockings.

If that works, I'll get them teaching each other lots. DS and DS are both good at very different things and both keen to share their knowledge with the other, but the other is never interested .

Think this might be a way?

[moondog]

Hehe, very good. I will share.
They are so lovely aren't they?
I am inordinately pleased with them.

[GloriaTheHighlyFavouredLady]

btw, my clicking chickens arrived today!

They're so cool!

[GloriaTheHighlyFavouredLady]

Moondog I've got a joke for you.



What is the difference between a Behaviourist and a Magician?

Behaviourists pull habits out of rats!

[moondog]

I think that is a fairly accurate summary of s/lt's limitations in such cases Salondon. With the best will in the world, threy do not have the technical knowhow to 'jumpstart' the child with extrinsic reinforcers, which are then yoked to the sort of reinforcement we want them to respond to (eg verbal praise). They do not then know how to thin and then fade out the extrinsic reinforcers and transfer stimulus control.

They know nothing about how important, nay, vital, are aspect such as timing of delivery of reinforcement, both from task completion and from one bout of reinforcement to the other. They have not been taught these skills which are essential to engaging and moving forward a child who presents like yours.

I know, because I was one of then and worked with children like this without this knowledge for years and years. Looking back, I can only describe it as trying to walk around an unfamiliar building wearing a blindfold, gloves and earplugs. I did not have all the information I needed.

If I had a very small autistic non verbal child, knowing what I know, I would steer clear of s/lts until basic skills were established and reinforced by a behaviour analyst.

That is not to say that s/lts are not the right people for other issues. Noone comes close to them in many other areas of expertise. They have speech disorders sewn up, they really know their business in terms of feeding and swallowing and in myriad other contexts, but in this one, they are categorically not the best people to work with the child.

[salondon]

The thing about SLT (whatever I experienced) is that they expect the language to just sputter out I the child's mouth. The motivation to speak was never considered. They said say 'ready steady' and wait for 'go'. But why would my child say 'go' when firstly she doesn't understand she has to copy and secondly she has no wish to copy. This was 3 years ago. After hours of reward driven verbal training she will attempt to copy phonics if she knows she will get to jump for every sound she makes. It sounds so simple now, but I spent hours trying to get 'go', 'bye' and all sorts of animal and vehicle sounds out of her. I still remember went out with a family on a trip and kept the constant commentary - 'look biiiiiig truck', 'taaaaaaalllll tree'. At the end of the trip the other boy had learnt the new words and my daughter had spent another weekend looking at her fingers from the corner of her eyes. I still laugh at how silly I sounded that time.

[moondog]

[AgnesDiPesto]

Moondog sadly it was written by a Manager in a response to a complaint about why DS had not got any SLT (well none which was effective). I have kept it and fully intend to send it to the CCG when they commission for SLT locally! Our complaint went all the way to the Chief Exec at the Hospital who signed off the letter!

zzzz we have private SLT now (via direct payments). We just refused to have any contact with NHS SLT again.

It was really SLT being anti-ABA - we just got caught in the crossfire as collateral damage.

[GloriaTheHighlyFavouredLady]

I have found out recently that my LA used to train staff to believe that parents with children on the spectrum were 'difficult' and so obsessed with support due to sharing the ASD genes.

They also said that parents went to tribunal because of support groups

I came across some Scottish guidance that said that too (though it also said that ethnic minorities were also difficult because they found it hard to 'like' 'white' superiors. I'll see if I can find it as it was published online for a while.

[moondog]

'I am utterly unmoved by today's discomfort if it leads to a better day tomorrow (or even next decade).'

Fabulous zzz. That is me.
I think I will print that out and put it above my desk (car/windscreen/bed...)

Agnes, I think a time will come when people will be prosecuted for spouting such irresponsible and inaccurate tosh to parents. Within the field of s/lt there are huge moves to get them to move with the times and to base all clinical work and recommendations on evidence as opposed to random ill informed personal prejudice and opinion.

Parents need (as Star says) to ask such people to repeat what they have said, record it, then write to the head of dept, asking for the evidence for such assertions.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Agnes, I think you have answered zzzzz's long standing question of who is it that gets SALT.

Typically developing children.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

The answer to a quip that your child isn't developmentally ready to learn something is 'well what IS he developmentally ready to learn then? How do you know this? And finally: So let's get on with teaching him THAT.

[AgnesDiPesto]

I agree the developmentally ready thing is often abused. Our NHS SLT said she wouldn't teach DS language until he had gained joint attention as his brain had to learn skills in the same developmental order as typical children to have any meaning. When we challenged her she quoted some obscure research about attachment disorders and nothing to do with autism.

She also said by doing ABA and using tutors we were depriving DS of parental attention, that in her view (conveniently for her budget) joint attention had to be taught by parents. By farming him off on tutors we were delaying his development / abusing him.

Well first of all we were the ABA tutors! we couldn't afford to hire any. Any secondly DS is now on 3-4 keywords and his joint attention is slightly better than then but still vastly delayed and I doubt it will ever be typical. I hate to think how many children she refused to teach to talk until they had demonstrated their brain had followed a normal developmental route.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Oh I got loads of that *zzzzz. Professionals in my house talking nonstop TO ME until the time was gone. I stopped offering tea, because then they would 'wait for their tea' before they got started. Then they would have their cup of tea WITH ME as if it was some kind of social event, disguising it as 'catching up with where ds was', offering me platitudes or telling me about things he needed to learn as if to justify what a huge up hill struggle it was and to ensure my expectations were suitably low.

Then, after 5 minutes of attempting to get ds to do something, decide that we're half way through the time and so they ds needs a break.

Glad those days are over.