Why are schools not held just as responsible as the LEA for the failures

[hoxtonbabe]

I have been reading through a few threads and the common none these last few months ( or in my case few years) is the issue with the school not implementing.

I understand that LA are ultimately responsible but given that schools also have a duty of care how is it so many of them can get away with what they do.

I suppose it depends on the issue so if a child needed say OT in school and LA didn't provide then I get that is the LA at fault but what happens if say the school have said they can offer xxx learning programme within school and their resources and then don't? That to me would be the school being at fault.

I think a lot of what we face as parents AFTER the ordeal of tribunal is then getting the school to comply and because they know they will never face any action like an LA does they just do whatever they feel like.

It's like a never ending vicious cycle of crap within the SEN system

[Summerhasloaded]

That's interesting about costs, Wet. I wonder if it would be possible to FOI how much a LA has spent on fighting appeals?

[TOWIELA]

Privately educating their own DC was certainly something my eldest has talked about for when they have children. But then she saw what a top ancient mainstream Ofsted outstanding indie school did to her brother! Private schools have a lot to answer for too!

I seriously believe that I haven't had any child protection issues raised against me only because I have had a solicitor very involved from the point when they refused to assess in March 2012. The home ed depart stayed away from me too. Although the DPA material showed that the home ed person sent everything they had on my DS home ed through to the SEN dept. So they haven't dared try anything because if they did, they know my lawyers would be snapping at their heels. Disgusting!

I would like to go public. But the time isn't right yet. The daily fail would love my story . They really went to town on a story about my ds old school this time last year - so theyd love this! But maybe not!


Summer - if you search whatdotheyknow, you'll see that several LAs have had this FOI asked of them. You'll also see that most have wriggled out of answering.

[fightingforfairness]

You're right Wet, there is a heck of a lot of nastiness going on. What is driving it - who knows? In my case I think it's just their belief that they know best and woe betide anyone who thinks otherwise.
Why are people not brave enough to go to the press? Probably for fear of any backlash/nasty tricks. I think though that getting these issues out in the open may be safer in a way. If people are aware of what you've gone through it might make it more difficult for them to try to do something else to you or your child.
Only accurate details can be published so as long as you have evidence to back up your claims what can they do?
I really want to publicise what happened to us to hopefully make other parents a bit more aware of what could happen to them. There are lots of human interest stories on this board and some seem quite unbelievable so publishing these would increase public awareness of what many of us have had to go through.

[fightingforfairness]

Not sure about the daily fail for my story as I've seen some of their reader comments about SEN children before . Think I would go to our regional BBC myself.

[TOWIELA]

Fighting - Totally agree with you! Daily Fail are appalling. But they'd love my story cos it would give them a chance to bash an indie school - and an indie school that they've bashed before!

As for why don't people go public? Fear of reprisals on our DC! That's why!

[fightingforfairness]

I've even had threats issued in writing to me and have some classic quotes that are absolutely ridiculous so have plenty to excite the readers

[WetAugust]

You see my background is public service as a civil servant - LAs are public servants.

Nothing in my training would have led me to act as these public servants do. We were always taught to be reasonable. If we developed a policy and we have objections / complaints we would examine them fairly and either adjust policy to accommodate the suggestions or state plainly why we wouldn't do so.

I can only imagine that these people actually believe they are doing the right thing. In which case what objectives are driving them? Is it a budget that must be adhered to? Is it that they can only issue a certain number of Statements each year? I just don't understand why they feel they need to play so dirty in the first place.

What may be happening is this growth in 1:1 and the exorbitant costs that incurs the LA. It was unheard of to have 1:1 when I was at school but then again we never had the most difficult cases in our mainstream schools in those days as they were funnelled off to SS.

[fightingforfairness]

Maybe they just want to scare off as many parents as possible. Let's face it, not everyone will want to take these people on or have the knowledge and strength to do so.How many children fall by the wayside and receive inadequate provision? - that saves the LA's a lot of money. If even the one's with statements are being failed there's no hope really

[TOWIELA]

Totally agree Wet. But the old system of ss didn't work either. When I was 10, my DM was told I was mentally retarded and needed to go to a ss. I wasn't - just a severely dyslexic child but a very bright one too. Fortunately my "saviour" was a wonderful class teacher in my grammar school who personally took charge of me when i was 11 and personally taught me to read and write. The love and commitment of one dedicated teacher changed my life.

[TOWIELA]

Wet - I think some of it is about individual power and how important these people perceive themselves to be. I saw a massive display of this "power" and preening in the security reception/entrance lobby of the Tribunal when we all unfortunately turned up at the same time before the hearing.

[fightingforfairness]

Bet they were like a lot of peacocks strutting around

[WetAugust]

Oh I know what you mean about preening. My neighbour has just retired from a LA. Well actually he's just been driven out of his job by an absolute assholse of a manger half his age. He had an extended period of sick leave due to stress and then retired. Very sad. So they do it to each other as well as to us.

I went to a retirement do yesterday at my old office. Heard all the jargon and the politics and all the managerial crap, for the first time since I left last autumn. I so regret that I spent so many of my 'good' years working in that place - but I suppose we all have to work somewhere and it paid well..

[WetAugust]

The system of SS when I was at primary in the dark ages was that you took the really seriously disabled cases away to SS. That left those with moderate learning difficulties. You then took them regardless of age and taught them in one 'remedial' class.

I always remember that the 'remedial' class produced some amazing artwork which was hung in the school entrance. And they seemed happy. Expectations of them were low in those days - but they did seem more supported even in that whole-class environment than some of the so-called 1:1 support that's provided now.

[TOWIELA]

Fortunately I was spared the remedial class! Probably because I was in grammar schools and a remedial class was beyond the pale! Actually CSEs were beyond the pale and we all did (and got) 10 O levels! After a year in one grammar school, we moved and I did the rest of my school years in another grammar. This was the one with the head always in academic robes. My first meeting with her was when all 6 foot of her swept majestically in, in full flowing robes and announced to my 12 year self that "we are putting you in the Latin class, because if you learn Latin, you will learn the roots of words so will be cured"

Strangely enough, learning Latin didn't cure me of my dyslexia! However it did give me a love for history and I can (vaguely) understand Medieval Latin - which has been, surprisingly, a useful talent to have!

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Wet - I am sure that teachers are all very appropriately dressed in top grammars and private schools. I can't see that makes any difference to their ability to care or to support SEN though.

I don't see the connection between dress code and effective practice at all to be honest and I very much disagree with blaming 'human rights'

If human rights principles were truly understood and applied, our children would not be treated the way they are. And a teachers dress code doesn't fall under any human rights article I am aware of. So that is very Daily Mail, in the sense of blaming everything on 'human rights' when 'human rights' are not actually involved !!

To be honest, if DS was support effectively and compassionately, I couldn't give two hoots about what that support looked like.

I worked in one of the top practices in the country and I have never met such dedicated lawyers. When we were not at court, we wore jeans or whatever we liked to the office. It didn't change the quality of my advice to clients.

[WetAugust]

IE - I think you've missed the point here. I called it 'u-man rights' because it is not human rights per se but some thicko's (mis)interpretation of them.
I mentioned the Daily mail because every time someone harks back to 'how things used to be' they are usually accused of being a frothing Daily Mail reader. So my post was actually tongue-in-cheek in some respects

But this is where we disagree radically:
Wet - I am sure that teachers are all very appropriately dressed in top grammars and private schools. I can't see that makes any difference to their ability to care or to support SEN though.

I don't see the connection between dress code and effective practice at all to be honest.

Looking the part is everything. It sends out the right signals. You agree you wouldn't appear in Court dressed in jeans and a T shirt to argue your case would you - but even if you were permitted to I doubt that you would because it would not give your client the same confidence seeing his brief dressed as though for a weekend in Glastonbury rather than exuding professional calm in appropriate clothing even if the case is argued in exactly the same way.

The top grammars and private schools send out those right signals. Turning up in jeans, nose rings etc to teach impressionable students is, in mind, displaying contempt i.e. you are not worth me spending a little time each morning dressing in a professional manner. No, I want to dress like you and be one of your gang - and with that they have totally lost any command of their classroom.

They claim to be professionals, they want to be as professionals - well start acting like professionals.

Actually - don't bother discussing this with me. I know my prejudice is clouding everything as you know just how much I loathe teachers.

[fightingforfairness]

You do have a point Wet. At ds's school the children were all threatened with exclusion if their tie was worn too short as it would not project the right image of the school.
Ds rightly pointed out that this seemed a bit unfair as some teachers were slopping about in scruffy leggings. Double standards!

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Oh Wet, I would never get into a fight with you about anything!! You are tops. I would appear in court in jeans if I could. I totally don't get the uniform thing at all.

But I am an old leftie

[WetAugust]

Left wing lawyer !

As an example of how important appropriate clothing is:

The Army decided a few years ago that everyone from Major General to the greenest squaddie had to war DPM fatigues - i.e. trousers and shirt in disrupted pattern material and big clunking boots. A few of the old Colonels I worked with were most put out about this as they had to forgo their olive green tailored trousers, green shirt / jerseys and red flashes.
Meanwhile the RAF permitted their people to wear Air Force Blue shirt jerkins /jerseys and trousers and the Navy continued to war black trousers and white shirts.
An Army major in my team complained that he wasn't being taken seriously at meetings as everyone else in the room was dressed very business like, in office attire, while he had to turn up looking like Action Man.

So it is important.

[inappropriatelyemployed]

But not to me What else can I say comrade?

Off on me hols now. Have a good week. And thanks to all for your endless fabulousness and Wet for your being ace this week!

[WetAugust]

have a lovely time. Send us a postcard!

[bochead]

Has anyone complained to the General Teaching Council?

If so has it yielded results?

I hear of people complaining to the General Medical Council, (the MMR case or Harold Shipman being the most widely publicised) but there seems to be radio silence on public complaints to the General Teaching Council. Why is that?

[WetAugust]

I think the GTC has only 'struck off' about 2 teachers since they started

[fightingforfairness]

The GTC has now been abolished and replaced by the National College for Teaching and Leadership.
I think you have to go through various stages before you can complain though (just like everything else)

[WetAugust]

'spect it's a waste of time