4yr excluded for hitting. whats the process now?

[meaty]

My 4yr son has started school part time and worked up to full time over the last 3 months. He has all the reports from OT, Ed Physc, Pead, SALT and a school entry plan.

It clearly states on every one that if someone invades his space he will hit out. He hit a TA who invaded his space and now is excluded.

I now have to attend a reintegration meeting tomorrow with the school reducing his hours again (so I will have to stop working again). He hits because someone is in his space not due to the number of hours he spends somewhere so I am lost as to why this is part of their solution.

My son has sensory processing issues, SALT, ADHD but the school would like him to be autistic as then they say they can get more funding for him.

If anyone has been in the same situation and knows what the process is and the likely outcomes I would love to hear from you as I am looking to make the right decisions for my son.

[bochead]

Apply for that statement asap (diy rather than wait for others - it's a quick letter + the cost of the stamp is all). The assessment process itself means that the LA will be keeping an eye out on how well your child is being supported this academic year. It really is the ONLY legal route you have to prevent this happening again .

It's great he is making progress but the onus really is on you now, to ensure that there's no backsliding by posting that statement application while the exclusion is still "fresh". You are unlikely to aquire better evidence towards one.

[meaty]

thank you all for your help and support. I thought I would just give a quick update as someone at a later date might need the same help.

first off I contacted the ED Physc, OT, Pead and told them about the problem. They contacted the school as it seems the school had not actually thought to talk to professionals to get some help.

The meeting went well with my sons hours now reduced to a time frame he can cope with. The school is building a quiet room for him which must be costing them ££s so they really are making an effort on that.

There is a local scheme where schools pay £20/yr and they can borrow equipment from the local special needs school. Though this had been made clear to my sons school it is something that they didn't bother with. They are now as I pointed out £20 is not alot when some of the sensory equipment runs into the thousands.

He now will have 2:1 support so that the other adult can make notes of what triggers his behaviour, what additional support he might need etc.

They disagreed with the Pead report which I thought odd as they have not spent years in medical school whereas the doctor has and as anyone knows special needs children will change over time which is why all these professionals see my son every at least every 6 months to report on the changes.

I asked what happens if he hits again and his teacher replied that school policy is that a pupil would be excluded and that applies to everyone. At this point the headmaster pointed out that that would be discrimination and therefore they will not be excluding him again. A big bonus point to the headmaster even though that is his job.

It was his first day back today and he had a great day doing his numbers, reading and playing with others so I hope that this continues and I will be keeping a closer eye on everything and sorting out the future paperwork/professional reports/statements/IPSEA

[ChristmasTreegles]

And document EVERYTHING!! Do everything you can in writing - if you must do it by telephone, then make sure you follow up in writing (just a letter basically saying "to confirm regarding our recent phone conversation of xxxxx date..." and summarise all the key points).

[bochead]

Similar happened to me.

If you play your cards right now, in the long term this exclusion could turn out to be a blessing in disguise. If a school needs to exclude at four years then clearly they don't have the skills to enable your child to access the national curriculum over the long term.

2 things to keep in mind - repeat the 2 sentences below to yourself like a mantra, so you can stand up to any prof who tries to tell you otherwise

1. SEN law is based on NEED, not diagnosis.
   
2. It's all about access to the national curriculum in order to obtain an adequate education. (If your kid can't be in school due to exclusion well he's not accessing the NC at all is he lol!).
   

Now go to the IPSEA website section on exclusion and send off the relevant letter to your circumstances to the school.

Then, again using the IPSEA website send off a statement application addressed to the Head of Children's services at your LEA. Enclose a copy of the letter you have recieved from your child's school notifying you of your child's exclusion. Do this today and without delay.

Sit back and wait a few days for the fireworks. Come back here at that point and we'll do all we can to help you some more. In the meantime if it helps any my son got excluded at 5, and actually NOONE judged me for it, as the general consensus seems to be that if you can't control kids this young you shouldn't really be working with kids at all . (An exclusion for a teen is viewed differently) It was seen as a sign of my son's NEED for a legally defined statement and gave me the concrete evidence I needed to get one despite an appalling school in a crap LA.

This might feel like a real low point to you now, but honestly based on my own experience things can and will get better from here on in provided you are prepared to really dig your heels in and repeat the two points I made above to any professionals who might try and fob you off along the way. Nowadays I have a happy well-adjusted 8 year old, in a different mainstream school where his needs are met and he is making fantastic progress. Outbursts like those that led to your child being excluded are a thing of the past, due to sympathetic management of his sensory issues.

[sickofsocalledexperts]

Meaty - remember that, regardless of whether the school 'wants him", it is your legal right as a parent to keep your boy in mainstream if that is your preference. This is a legal right and not up to the school. The absolutely only caveat is that your rights are jeopardised if they can argue he is 'disruptive to the efficient education of orhers' AND that all reasonable steps taken have failed to put that right. Our schools in ths country are NOT selective, and in fact this is the one piece of SEN law that I am quite proud of Engand for!

[ChristmasTreegles]

I can't say that from your description I think the teacher is much better tbh. Is she not the one that made the comment about having 30 other students? We have had that comment from ONE teacher regarding DS2 - the one in reception that was least willing to make accommodations for his SNs.

I think if the teacher feels the school is the wrong place for him, you might also watch out that she may have her own agenda in how she handles things as well, just to prove herself right, rather than looking out for what's best for your child.

It's part of the SENCO's job to check on funding, so I wouldn't necessarily slate her just because she asked about it.

Have you had a multi-agency meeting yet, where the paed, OT, teacher, SENCO, SALT, etc all meet with you and discuss the best way to meet your child's needs? Then you can hear all the input from various sources.

[mummytime]

A small school is not necessarily better. Please look carefully rather than just make assumptions based on size.

I have known children be excluded from two schools before being fortunate enough to end up at my DCs MS school. Which is a big school, about 90 a year. A great SENCo is ideal, but even more is a school which is determined to do its best for all pupils, and will work through problems.

[meaty]

TBH I think alot of fault lies in me not keeping a close enough eye on it. I should have sorted a statement, I should have made more of a point of helping my son settle in in the first couple of weeks and I should have been more forceful with the school.

From now on all of the above changes and the school will receive all my support possible but in return they will do everything in their power as well.

If this still doesn't work then I will be moving my son to the smallest school possible.

[mariammama]

(from your posts, the senco is the non-coper rather than the teacher)

[mariammama]

And FFS, he's only 4. Any half-competent nursery would routinely deal with needing to retrain some little kids who do a bit of hitting/ kicking/ biting. And theres not much difference between a 3 and a 4yr old. I can see that a 15y old might scare a teacher, but i wouldnt like to have to leave any dc with someone who thinks they can't cope with a reception child having a bad day.

[meaty]

I see that a good teacher is only for 1 year which is a shame as I could really do with someone who is honest and also looking out for the best result for my son. I am careful of the senco as the first question she ever asked was do you have funding.

I am not going to stick up for the school except to say there are a couple of members of staff who I would admire for their sheer determination compared to the other dross that is there.

[mariammama]

The senco matters. This school sounds toxic. A good teacher is a blessing, but only for one year, and your DS needs more.

[meaty]

auntevil. that is a very good question. His teacher has said that the school is the wrong place for him and the SENCO has said it can be the right place for him. I think the teacher wants him out and the SENCO wants him in. So the money attached to him must be a factor.

His teacher is great and honest as she is also looking out for the best solution for my son the SENCO I personally think is a waste of space and a monkey could replace her and get the same result.

[auntevil]

Basic question meaty - Do you think that the school want him? (or any money etc that may be attached) or do you think in their ideal world that they do not want him there?
If their intention is to have him as a pupil, it is in their interests to work with you to 'resolve' in some way the issues around personal space.
If it is their intention to find a way not to keep him, I would say that they are working toward a 'H&S' issue - as in 'we cannot have him as he is a safety risk to both staff and pupils' - starting with exclusions and building up.

[endoftherainbow]

We moved to a much smaller school and it has worked in part as it is less stressful for ds. It is however difficult in a smaller school where they don't have floating TA support, have a part time SENCO and have limited experience in dealing with SEN. That said, we're happier there and they appear to be working with us.

[sickofsocalledexperts]

Have they tried a 'corridor' workstation? Worked well for my boy. Small school may work or may be snootier about SEN. The beauty of a bogstandard state primary is that they are now by law obliged to take "all reasonable steps" to overcome your son's difficulties. Only if he is still disrupting the 'efficient education of others" after all reasonable steps have been exhausted can they exclude him permanently. I would argue, charmingly, that letting you show them home techniques, or using the odd covert Choc reward would constitute perfectly reasonable steps.

[mummytime]

I would also contact your local parent partnership, some are better than others. If he is on SA+, then what + is he getting which outside experts have they called in, have assessed him, are advising them?

If you haven't already you need to start keeping a diary, recording what you say to them and when, what they say to you and when etc.

My DCs primary has created a quiet space, out of a tiny bit of space under the stairs (About big enough for 2 adults at most, I've had a meeting in there). Its tiny but cosy, and is a safe space for the children who need it (it also has a window on to the stairs so anyone passing can see in for CP reasons).

[meaty]

sickofsocalledexperts I dont think that you are being harsh I think that it is good honest advice. I will be following up getting a statement for my son and I think that going forward in order to let my son have the chance of a MS education that is the least I can do for the school and my son.

[meaty]

the school is a standard primary school with an outstanding rating by ofsted (not that that means much). His quiet room is shared by other classes so it isn't actually quiet and sometimes there are music lessons going on in there. to the schools credit there really isn't any room for his own quiet room.

Has anyone here ever moved their child to a different school? has that produced results? the reason I ask is that there is a country school nearby with only 30 pupils in the whole school so is alot quieter and with only another 5 pupils in the class maybe it would be that quiet that my son can cope? on the other hand they might lack expertise in special needs?

I will be following up on a statement as the first next step.

[sickofsocalledexperts]

I agree that generalising a skill from home to school is tricky - that's why I actually think ABA-trained LSAs make perfect sense in mainstream, and are a cost-effective way of allowing more ASD kids to benefit from ms inclusion. But without a statement, or an LSA, meaty going and showing the staff or Senco the techniques she is using at home to stop him hitting is the next best thing. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

[ChristmasTreegles]

They can't just exclude him and say basically that you have to "fix" it at home. They're SUPPOSED to be working WITH you to teach him social aspects as well as educational ones. The comment by the teacher of "I have 30 other students" would be a red flag, IMO, that they are not interested in the ONE student that needs their support.

I'm just horrified that they are so hardline about this - DS2's school was happy to work with me on things like this, and if he hit at someone, the 1:1 took him to a quiet room and allowed him to settle, and then talked to him calmly about "no hitting." For heaven's sake, they don't seem to be very tolerant or willing to accommodate him.

[starfishmummy]

School say "We are the experts" yet they seem to be doing nothing to help your son. I think you need to be asking them exactly what they are doing as exclusion clearly isn't the answer.

[meaty]

Sickofsocalledexperts I did offer to come into the school at the beginning to show them how to get the best from my son but they said I could come in but I would not be allowed to help with my son only other children. The school has a food policy banning chocolate and also nuts. I think they could get the same result using trains as he is fixated with thomas.

Learning70 I have done alot of research and have passed all information onto the school. I have even paid for private experts to develop strategies for my son and school. The special needs nursery even tried to help the school but out of all of that the school just turned round told me not to be so anxious and that I should leave it to them as they are the experts. I am going to follow all the advice on this forum and be more assertive with the school and with my son.

[Learning70]

Hi I think a combination if all the above advice really. Get to the bottom of what support he has and whether that support is exclusively for him or a shared resource. Check out your situation with IPSEA so you fully understand your child's rights. Be proactive about his behaviour problems and work with the school. If he had a named disability research methods to improve it. Let the school know that you understand your rights and explain to them how his issues affect his behaviour. Tell them about methods you have researched and broach how you can work together to minimise disruption to other children's education. Show them you are switched on and be polite and firm about it. Good luck, it's so hard going. I am in similar shoes and I wish I had taken my own advice a bit earlier!