To vaccinate or not to vaccinate

[Shriekable]

I was wondering if anyone out there who has a child with autism went ahead and had their child vaccinated with the mmr booster? I am in such a state worrying about what to do. My 3 and a half year old has autism and is due the booster, my almost 1 year old is due his first mmr shot just after Christmas. My GP, paediatrician, nurse, health visitor, are all backing having them both vaccinated (none of them are pushing me into it, in fact, they have all been supportive). However, I have a friend whose son is the same age as my eldest, and he too has autism. She is convinced he is vaccine damaged, and has been told so by an apparent specialist in this area. He also told her that my son 'sounds vaccine damaged' (he's never met him) and that I should not get either child vaccinated. I have been crying every day, thinking that I could be wrecking my children if I vaccinate, or putting their health at risk if I don't. In retrospect my eldest showed signs of autism before he had his mmr, my younger son is a totally different child - more alert, smilier, more interested in things, but then some days I think I'm kidding myself. I can talk myself in and out of both arguments.

[dolfrog]

silverfrog

All i did was to expose the Wakefield fraud, and the problems it has cause
d to the MMR vaccine which is the subject of this thread, and the cause of the many doubts

It was Pagwatch who became emotional
"I prefer special needs to be a haven from vac/anti vac shit storms. If you don't mind." and tried to move away from fact to fantasy.

I am aware of the civil war that the "MMR fraud" caused to autism community, but now it is time to move on, and look at the genetic underlying causes etc which is where the research of the la\st decade has been focusing, post MMR fraud.

I am not a boorish bully I am only interesting in discussing the real underlying causes of a wide range of problems and issues based on peer reviewed scientific research. So if you can provide this type of research to support your claims then please provide the links to the Medical Research Councils work that supports your views.

From my own perspective I have three DC who have invisible disabilities, and whose future is and can be further damaged by those who follow false claims made regarding related issues such as ASD. So from our perspective this type of fraud is typical from those who are trying to make money out of those who have any form of invisible disability like ours, and these frauds need to be exposed, to prevent further fraud and to protect the current and possibler future victims. This is not the first of these types of fraud and it probably will not be the last.

[silverfrog]

dolfrog, honestly, you need to learn how and when to let things go.

you also need (if you want to comment on threads like these) to be a whole lot better informed.

it would also be nice if you could try to respect other posters opinions and viewpoints, just occasionally.

please be aware that TYPING IN CAPITALS is akin to shouting, and does not actually confer authority, but rather makes you look a little deranged, tbh.

[Pagwatch]

Dolfrog

As the issue is both contentious and relates to my son I asked you to perhaps reserve debating the whole mmr/Wakefield for the main board. There is a vaccinations section where this issue is often discussed.

I asked if you could do that because mmr threads always do become shitstorms. And that is extremely difficult anywhere. It is particularly difficult in the special needs section which is meant to be supportive and non judgemental.

I am not especially interested in your views as to what happened to my son. Foisting them at me is rude and unnecessary.

[dolfrog]

silverfrog Pagwatch

The issue here is about genetics, and the genetic causes of SN issues, and I am sure silverfrog that you are aware that I and many others freely admit that they share similar disabilities as their SN children, and that these genetic links also apply to ASD.
So the whole Wakefield MMR fraud provide some with an suitable alternative cause of ASD, which enabled the parents not to follow the genetic implications that would suggest that they may share some autistic traits of their DC.
So this is probably not about children but is probably more about undiagnosed adults.

And i only used capitals in emphasis which can be standard practice. If I had used capitals for the whole post that would be different.

[hanaka88]

There is absolutely no proof either way. It's pointless arguing anything at all. In my own experience I saw my DS who was a high achiever and extremely social lose all this language and skills at 3 1/2 in 1 week after his MMR booster. But there's no proof that this wasn't just a coincidence. As a parent, even if there wasn't all these apparently fraudulent studies I would still have been wondering about the jabs.

Dolefrog you can't state your opinion as fact and shoot down other people thoughts. Children can be vaccine damaged Without being ASD there are many other ways vaccines can affect some children.

This is obviously a really sensitive subject for the OP and she just wanted thoughts, not for other members to be personally attacked for their opinions.

So dolefrog believes vaccines are nothing to do with regressive autism. That's fine.

Others do. That's fine too

The OP can make her own choice without being judged by others.

[Pagwatch]

Actually I disagree

The issue is nothing to do with MMR or Wakefield or genetics or fraud.

It is about using this board with some respect for the views and feelings of others.

[Pagwatch]

X-posted. I agre with all of that hanaka88

I don't mind what others believe. It is their choice.

[hanaka88]

You're right prag. Threads like this ask for opinions and some people just have to learn that other peoples opinions differ, and this is ok. This isn't an AIBU thread after all.

[dolfrog]

hanaka88

just for clarification
Autism
Autism and Regression
and for more information my own invisible disability
Auditory Processing Disorder (APD)

[hanaka88]

It's after 10:30 I'm not reading stuff I already know love. Not too sure why you're trying to turn this into a fight but I'm not taking you on it doesn't help OP. Goodnight.

[Eloise73]

Our DD had her pre-school booster a few months ago and we've noticed no regression at all - in fact she's starting to have conversations which she hadn't really been doing before. Having said this I thought long and hard about it, it's a tough decision but in the end I'm glad we did it. Good luck with your choice xx

[TheHouseMistress]

Pagwatch I heart you and completely agree with everything you have said.
SN boards is supposed to be a haven, op has asked a genuine question without second quessing i'd say an argument is fucking out of order. Take it to aibu please and stop trying to derail this thread.
Op, ds had his mmr at 7 he has severe asd, dd who is nt was vaccinated at 5 for school.
It was a very difficult decision for us to make especially for dd, tbh ds could'nt be any more autistic!
I don't think I could have considered it any earlier, certainly not at 12-36 months.
Difficult decision but one that remains entirely yours and your families.

[Shriekable]

Thanks guys. House Mistress, I think I'm leaning towards your way of thinking. Would like to get both boys vaccinated, but think I'll wait until they are older

[Pixel]

Ds had a bad reaction to his DTP and we were very reluctant to give him the MMR. In the end we paid for singles (and what a faff that was, all day on the train x 3!) but we were lucky and got in just before they stopped making the mumps vaccine. He hasn't had anything since then, as far as we were concerned the pre-school boosters were to catch the children where the vaccine hadn't worked properly the first time and we decided to take our chances with that. We'd done as much as we were prepared to and hopefully he is immune (until it all wears off) but if he's not, he's not. If we had any more children I'm not sure we'd give them anything at all. I suppose it all comes down to what stresses you out more, the jabs (and possibility of damage) or the illnesses. In our case it was the jabs because that was a decision we'd made iyswim and if he'd regressed further we wouldn't forgive ourselves, whereas catching a disease is more down to luck/fate. No doubt that's the coward's way out though!

[sneezecakesmum]

OP you could consider a single measles vaccine. Mumps is not available anyway, rubella is very mild in childhood. Measles is however a very serious and highly infectious disease and single vaccines are available privately still.

This way your DCs can have some protection asap as measles is more prevalent at this time of the year rather than in the summer months.

[saintlyjimjams]

OP :ignores dolfrog:

DS1 did not regress after MMR (he hasn't had it - although he had all baby jabs and single measles). However, we have no autism at all in the family, whether diagnosed or undiagnosed. We do however, have a family history where many individuals have autoimmune conditions. DS1 regressed after a viral illness and we therefore suspect some sort of pre-disposition to strange reactions to viruses and some sort of involvement with the immune system.

For that reason we decided to only vaccinate against things that were very high risk for our children, and only with singles. Of course the 'only with singles' but is problematic as you can't get things like tetanus jabs singly very easily. So for that reason, ds2 and ds3 are currently completely unvaccinated. Healthcare professionals have on the whole been sympathetic and sometimes told me they agree with me and that's what they would have done. Only one (very very very junior) doctor has ever tried to persuade me to vaccinate. I just asked him a question and he went away.

The immune system and autism is a rapidly growing area of research. It's still poorly understood but seems likely to play a role in some cases - particularly in cases of regressive autism (just google autism immune system or autism cytokines for example). If you ever get a chance to attend conferences it can be worth it because when it comes to vaccination researchers are often happy to discuss the role they may or may not see vaccinations playing in their various models, but those comments rarely make it into print.

[IndigoBell]

Just took DS to a neurologist today, and he agreed with us that the 3 month vaccine has clearly caused some I'd DSs problems. Ie his brain didnt develop exactly properly after 3 months.