Changes to travel arrangements for children with S.E.N. ...

[GossipWitch]

A friend and I went to our local autism drop in centre this week to find that a council official was there and was telling us about the proposed changes for our children and their transport to their special needs schools.

Just so that you understand what I'm writing about there is a link here.

The government are trying to put these measurements in place across the country, you just have to google it and find out for yourself.

I personally feel that this is discrimination against the disabled children and young people of this country and I don't think this is fair to us or our children at all.

This could also have a huge knock on effect to other organisations like the social services etc. Have a read through and tell me if you agree please.

[Lougle]

Riven, I truly don't understand your attitude. I am baffled. You have choices. You can either get the mobility element of DLA towards petrol costs and free car tax, or have a motability car.

You shouldn't, IMO, be able to say 'I choose the car, but also choose not to drive it'.

If you can drive your DD to school, and you do have a motability car, then your 'preference' not to drive takes second place.

I'm sorry, but a distance of 3 miles is no justification for your child never to have a play date. I can think of many, but 3 miles isn't one of them.

To be honest, I can see why some posters outside the board talk of our 'sense of entitlement'. We need to remember that having a disabled child doesn't make the world stop, and we can't be immune from the financial crisis the country faces.

It's all a bit irrelevant, anyway. I truly don't believe that these policy changes are targetting children who absolutely need transport. It is just aimed at reducing frivolous anomolies in a small number of cases.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Hmm, a while ago now DS attended an 'Opportunity class' for under 5s with SN. It was a mile and a half away.

Every bloody week the Session leader tried to convince me to 'order' transport because I was 'entitled' to it. We walked and I thought walking was good for me and DS (although I pushed him in a buggy). She would not give up though, as the weather got colder she banged on about it even more as if having ASD meant you can't do winter (okay, there are 'some' childeren with ASD that might have trouble for one reason or another but we didn't'.

At that same time, I was desperate for respite, for SALT for a whole host of other things, and yet they were quite happy for me to use money for a SN taxi, but not for what we needed.

We never did use their transport.

It seems that resources can only be given on LA terms, not child's needs

[BakeliteBelle]

3 miles away is a long way in a city where there are many other schools on your doorstep!! 3 miles away is a long way in terms of community inclusion, if every single other child is going to the schools on the doorstep and grow up recognising each other in the street and being part of the community. I don't think there is an attitude problem here.

[GossipWitch]

Rosie, when I attended the meeting they said that a child who lived within 2 miles of their SEN primary school they would NOT be funded, likewise the SEN high school within three miles. My friend has an ASD and ADHD son who can't reliably put his pants on, let alone be capable of walking 1 mile across town to the SEN school in our area. We wouldn't even have the option to pay for it I'm afraid.

I also find it shocking that they'll be cutting the transport for children who live in residential units, these poor children may suffer from separation anxiety as well there needs, I do not agree with these proposals at all and find it shocking that the government can find enough to fund a weekly bin round but not enough to help our disabled children get to there 1 and only SEN school in there area.

It IS disability discrimination our children do not have a choice and now the government are taking away their educational right too.

[rosie39forever]

Quite right Gossip, I don't have a choice of which school my dd goes to she has to go to a special school to access suitable education, I would quite happily walk 2 miles to school and back but my dd just would not be able to. I certainly don't have a sense of entiltlement and would pay for the safe, calm transport that she has at the moment, it would be a struggle but we would manage, the thing is it's not even an option as it stands if you don't meet the distance and phsyical disability criteria you won't get transport.

[GossipWitch]

I take it that no one is really bothered about this then, not only are the government going to cut the higher rate tax credits for children with disabilities they are now cutting transport to their schools as well, does no one see this as immoral, or discrimination against disabled children?

I take it no one is particularly bothered about it, as they can drive have no other children that go to different schools, and of course can afford to pay £240 a year?

OK lets see this from a different prospective, a lone mother of two children, one being autistic and lives a mile and a half away from his SEN high school, this child cannot cross the road safely as his concentration span is very short his brother attends the primary school a 15 minute walk away but is only 6 so cant reliably walk himself to school yet either, she is not eligible for school transport for her eldest as he is living close by to the school even if he does have to cross four main roads to attend.

A couple with a child that needs to be in respite care for her own health and safety due to her severe learning difficulties, however this respite unit is in a different county, they have 2 more children who both attend the a school five minutes away, the mother works part time and father works full time, both are bringing in a combined income of 30k per annum, they can only just manage to keep the mortgage over there heads and food in their tummy, the child in respite has her transport cut so instead of seeing and staying with her parents every weekend, she can only see them at the end of term, her mum and dad cannot find the money for petrol to pick her up, they don't get dla for her as she is in respite. I wonder if said girl can add separation anxiety to her long list of difficulties.

[BakeliteBelle]

Gossip, I am bothered. It's just another nail in the coffin really. I don't think people think through the consequences of this, they just assume because they can drive their child into school, everyone can.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I am bothered too. Not so much by the arguments for change, but for how I know it will be applied. i.e. unfairly.

If I could chose between unfair systems, I would always choose the one where people were given help unnecessarily, rather than the one where people were denied just in case they didn't really need it.

[bigbluebus]

gossip I would hope that whatever system/criteria they put in place there will always be room for exceptional circumstances. For example in my area there is no transport provided for SN holiday clubs, so I have to take my daughter myself (16 miles each way x 2 rtn trips = 64 miles each time). Yes we have a motability car and I don't work - so that is fine - and its my choice to take her. I do know of other parents in this area though who get a taxi/minibus funded by SS to take their child to holiday club for various reasons eg Mum doesn't drive. So some LA are sympthetic to individual need.

Also our local mainstream primary school has a bus which picks up children from an area 1 mile from school free of charge - reason - primary children cannot be expected to walk along & cross the busy 'A' road which separates their homes from the school.(That is written into the guidlines - not withstanding the 2 mile distance criteria).

So the battle worth fighting is the one of 'eligibility' criteria to ensure that those who can pay/manage - do and that those that can't still get help.

Are there any parent forums in your area that could get involved in this and be involved in putting together the criteria with the LA? I am on the committee of our local Parent & Carers forum for families of children with disabilities/additional needs and this is exactly the sort of thing that we would be working with the LA on rather than just fighting against them.

We all know the LA needs to save money - but I think 'damage limitation' has to be the name of the game. We all know that having a disability doesn't necessarily mean 'can't afford to pay'. Plenty of disabled children are born to middle class & wealthy families as well as low income families.

[pleasestoplying]

I do kind of agree that people who can afford to drive their kids to school and have no reason why they can't (ie other kids, no car) should do so. Especially agree re: motability care/ mobility DLA - we can't take the money and run and then say we don't want to use it to transport our kids, especially when the reason we're given it is to use it towards travel for our kids.

Having said that, each case needs to be looked at individually. Here, transport reviews are built into annual reviews and they have a travel training programme for those who can be taught to get themselves to school. Clearly a cost-cutting measure but also useful for adult life for the teenagers who are being put on it.

[GossipWitch]

Tbh bigbluebus, I am just a single non-working parent of two children, 1 having a disability. I cant drive and I cant afford to learn to either, I'm not eligible for mobility as ds can walk albeit slowly and via trees. But I do want to fight for this, the amount of kids I know that cant reliably get dressed, yet are expected to walk miles to school if this come in to force is saddening, however I dont think I am intelligent enough to use legal jargon or put my point across with out sounding like a bitter scrounger who's losing more money from the government thats keeping me and my kids iykwim, I dont think my voice alone can count that's why I would like to make these proposals aware to as many as possible to make the government realise that this is unfair and to recover the money from things like spending £100 for an office chair or three million quid on a building that looks like a giant baby has just left its nappy in the middle of town, (this is the case in my town) if everyone could just fill in the form and say how they feel about these plans, they may be stopped, it has happened in other counties because of the opposition against it.

And I would just like to say I am sorry for my rant earlier, this is an issue that has really got my goat up.

[BakeliteBelle]

'Each case needs to be looked at individually'...Well, yes, but what are the cost implications of going through every single case with a fine tooth comb, not to mention administering the complaints proceedure and dealing with appeals/tribunuals?

One of key points here is that because many of our children do not have any access to their local (walkable) school, parents should not be footing the transport bill for this lack of real inclusion. Isn't that just a basic principle and one worth paying for?

Agree with gossip that money still gets spent on all sorts of crap. I am amazed that parents have bought into the 'we have to make cuts' so we'll cut those who are vulnerable and already penalised in so many ways.

[Lougle]

Gossipwitch, I don't think it's a case of 'not being bothered'.

If your the child in your example cannot walk safely to school, or the parent cannot get them both to school at the same time, it is likely they would still qualify for transport.

In fact, the FAQs in the link you gave states:

"Clarifying entitlement of SEN children from families where a parent/carer has a disability, and may therefore require travel assistance with their journey to and from school.

This could mean that irrespective of the distance from school, a pupil may still be entitled to travel assistance if their parent/carer has a disability."

ie. you would still get assistance.

"Introducing a charge to parents/carers where the Local Authority arranges travel assistance for students attending Post-16 provision irrespective of where they attend education.

This could mean a charge being introduced as your contribution towards the full cost of providing travel assistance to school or college for your child. Presently this would equate to an annual charge of £240 for transport, which would help offset the local authority?s average cost of £3,880 per year for each student."

This would just bring SEN children to the same level as non-SEN children. There are many parents with NT children in exactly the same situation you describe, who struggle to pay £240 per year, but they have to. We shouldn't get dispensation for things that would affect us equally if our child was not diagnosed with an SEN, IMO.

"Who will be affected?
We expect that most SEN children and young people currently receiving travel assistance to and from school will continue to be offered travel assistance under the new proposals; however this depends on each individual's circumstances. "

I do think that a child who has pure SEN rather than SN, who has a statement of SEN, should not automatically get transport assistance. There won't be many of those, but the Council doesn't, to me, indicate that it thinks those proposals will affect big numbers.

If the council doesn't do this, you will see a down turn in specialist places being funded. Mark my words. The money has to come from somewhere.

[Ben10WasTheSpawnNowWeLoveLego]

Our LA has already changed I think as it appears that even for the special schools, unless the children are audit level 5 (no idea what that means) they use the same distance criteria as NT children. there is also no mention of children with ASD in the criteria if you live closer .

Gossip The Family Fund pay for driving lessons.

[bigbluebus]

gossip Parent Forums are a good way of getting the 'voice' of the families of SEN children across to LA's and PCTs. You don't need to be able to talk in legal jargon - the whole idea is that it is the voice and opinions of ordinary people who are affected by services - but joined together as a group they can represent the many different difficulties that our children face. Some of these groups were set up under 'aiming high' funding from the goverment and many are very active and successful at being involved in the planning of services in conjunction with the 'big boys' rather than just having the finished product imposed on them. Our group is run by parents for parents although many are run by an LA employed 'participation worker'.
None of want change but we have to accept it in these challenging times.
But yes, we have to ensure that it doesn't impact on those whose needs are greatest. Filling in an on-line LA consultation is often a tick-box exercise as far as LA's are concerned - they are obliged to consult - but they are not obliged to take any notice of the responses. Working directly with a group of parents who have put together a report based on direct input from familes is more difficult for the LA to ignore.
From what you say about your circumstances, I would be surprised if you lost your free transport. As Lougle points out the FAQ section does explain certain situations which will not be affected.
And yes - I sat on brand new chairs at a meeting in Shire Hall the other day in an area where they have 'sacked' all their staff last Friday and re-employed them on new contracts the next day with a 5% pay cut!!!

[GossipWitch]

I'll be honest bigblues my ds could make it into mainstream, however I think his behaviour and social difficulties and reluctance to change may effect him, if he can make it in to mainstream I will have no issues whatsoever on him walking to school as it will only take him a minute or so. But I do know parents of children with more difficulties than my ds who will need this transport, and may not get it, that is what saddens me. I also understand that there are nt children who's parents have to pay for transport as they live in villiages etc however the majority do live in the town for these schools and do walk for up to 2 miles safely.

I also think that if these proposals do go through, the council may find that they have to pay extra on other things i.e ss for post 16 students who needs the extra education but can no longer access it and their parents who need respite/ extra help to deal with said young adult, ambulance or police services for every child who has then had to walk to school and been in an accident or committed an offence, extra staff at SN schools to deal with children having a meltdown because something affected them on the way, and the knock on effect that child may have on the other children, there are so many more extra costs that may occur if this does go through. I still find it very unfair.

[Lougle]

Life is unfair, GossipWitch.

The people who need hip replacements, who need to wait longer, find it unfair.

People up and down the country find different cuts unfair.

Asking parents to contribute to their child's transport is not unfair. And it's £6 per week. And the vast majority of the parents involved will be in receipt of DLA. And, if they are on a low income, they will be exempt anyway.

The numbers we are talking about are very small. The council have tried to reassure you, looking at the information in the link you provided, that all circumstances will be taken into consideration.

[Tiggles]

Waiting to be flamed, but actually a genuine question, if families are receiving the mobility part of DLA why can't that be used towards school transport? And if they aren't receiving the mobility part of DLA, presumably their child can walk to school?

[Tiggles]

Probably should add that until I started full time work in August, I used to walk the boys to school, yes it took me longer than it should have done, I was walking several miles a day, yes I receive DLA mobility, but every journey I was teaching my children road sense. Yes we live up a mountain, and there were times when I was carrying 2 children under 5 in knee deep snow, whilst making sure my autistic under 10 year old didn't run off/fall over etc. But they need to learn how to behave on a road.

[Lougle]

LittleMiss, I guess the answer that some parents would give to that, is that they don't think they should have to pay to get their child to school, when their child would be able to walk if they weren't disabled.

I personally can't see the problem. Yes we struggle for money, most do, but the mobility part of DLA is a contribution towards the child's mobility needs.

[BakeliteBelle]

Just the motability car alone takes up the entire mobility component of DLA. Petrol is on top.

DLA is to pay for the extra costs incurred due to disability. Anyone who has had to leave work or abandon any career ideas due to their child's special needs, knows that DLA does not equal a wage.

DLA is not there to pay for the historical reasons for citing special schools on the outskirts of town or the middle of nowhere (to stop offending or 'infecting' the general population with disability). Nor is it to pay for the lack of access to community schools on the child's doorstep

[Lougle]

True, BakeliteBelle, but then the car is tax exempt. The servicing is free, the tyres are free, MOT is free, etc. So the cost of running a car is majorly reduced.

All I am saying is that parents of children with disabilities aren't doing themselves any favours if they fail to recognise that the cuts have to come from somewhere. If it isn't in weeding out the unnecessary transport costs, it will be in the necessary provision.

[BakeliteBelle]

Lougle I think defining 'unnecessary', without leaving some people in the shit will be the challenge here!

[Lougle]

I just don't think it's going to result in the problems you think it will

They have stated that the likelihood is:

"most SEN children...currently receiving travel assistance to and from school will continue to be offered travel assistance "

"This could mean that irrespective of the distance from school, a pupil may still be entitled to travel assistance if their parent/carer has a disability."

I don't think parents being asked to contribute 6% of the cost, ie. getting a 94% discount is harming them.