9 year old sleep problems

[purplepixiepie]

Sorry for long post but could be various issues here.
My daughter is nearly aged 10. She has had sleep issues since being a baby. she was breastfed up until 3 years old and I did co-sleep with her quite a bit as she struggled to settle in her cot or next to me. She was never great at napping and would only nap in a pram pushed around and put outside in the garden once a day. She has always seemed to function on less sleep than other kids seem to be able to function on. she used to have night terrors which was linked with me sleeping with her but she grew out of them and hasn't had any for many years.

Over the years there have been intermittent periods where she will sleep in her own bed but on the whole she seems to have sleep anxiety with wanting to be with someone at night. She will do anything to try and convince someone to sleep in her bed. Her room is exactly how she wants it, she says there is nothing else worrying her at night. She simply does not like being alone when sleeping. I have tried lying with her but as soon as she is asleep and I go to leave she literally sits bolt upright and gets upset. Its like she wont fully let herself sleep unless she knows I am staying all night. This has resulted in me falling asleep with her many times and not getting an evening to myself or any time with my husband. I have given in and just gone to bed in her room to survive as I love my sleep and want her to have a good night sleep but realise this is not helping the issue so I am trying to be consistent and not give in now.I have tried soooo many things. I have spoken to school and they have spoken to her and seem to think that it is about control.. simply ' I don't want to sleep on my own so I wont'.

Me and my partner have moved bedrooms to a tiny room so we are right next to her room. We dont' go downstairs if she is going to sleep as she will sit reading forcing herself awake until we are upstairs and then plead with us to get in with her. She knows we give in as we want her to have a good nights sleep so in trying to break this cycle I have been sitting with her for 5 mins then going in the room next to her with door open but she fights the sleep so bad and still ends up awake until past 10/11. If I go anywhere in the evening I come back and she is awake waiting for me! We have had lots of open chats about things so have school and she said that there is nothing at all that is worrying her. I explained last night that I would like to be able to sit downstairs with Daddy and come up when I want to go to bed and she said ' You can do that, i will just read and wait for you to go to bed' I explained that I then wont do this as she will be awake until 11pm! We have had stand offs in the past where she is literally stood at the end of my bed refusing to go to bed until I get in wit her and this has gone on until 12am before.

She has said recently that she keeps randomly crying at school and doesn't know why. I think it is because she is tired. In school she has a good friendship group and is confident. She does lots of out of school activities. She is fine staying at grandparents as she shares with her sister then or going on sleepovers, brownie camps etc as she gets to share with someone.

Last night she was saying that its me in particular she wants to be near at night but that cant be it as she stays out without me no issue. I have given in in the past and let her share with her younger sister but her younger sister actually says she likes her own bed and I dont want to create sleep problems for her.

Bedtime absolutely stresses me out as I am usually exhausted after a long day and get absolutely no time to myself or with my husband.

she has no screen time before bed, reads and then lights out though she has to have hall light on.

Wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar. I am starting to get concerned that something else is going on but she assures me there is nothing. She does confide in me if anything ever is troubling her. Me and her Dad have a good relationship, her sister is a happy little thing and we have a great relationship with grandparents and other family members.

This all leads me to think it is all about control that she doesnt want to be on her own to go to bed so she knows how to push our buttons to make sure she isnt'.

[LGBirmingham]

Hi OP, that sounds exhausting and you really have my sympathy. Mine is only 3 so I don't have first hand experience of this but it sounds quite a bit like my niece. She (niece 2) is 20 now and will still sleep with my sister frequently when she's at home and when she's at Uni I think she ends up ringing my sister in the middle of the night most nights so is still disturbing her parent's sleep even when she isn't there. My sister says niece 2 will just drop straight off to sleep as soon as she is lying next to someone. Her younger sister (niece 3) has always been a much better sleeper and they haven't had any problems with her and they were more or less raised the same. They used to share when they were younger which helped niece 2 quite a bit I think, but niece 3 got fed up of niece 2's night time antics. Niece 2 used to wait up for her parents to get back if they went out and my sister used to really struggle to get her to go sleep when she was a toddler, often up til 2am singing to her.

She's an exceptionally intelligent girl:- straight a student, got into Oxbridge etc... but she has a very anxious temperament and her brain seems to work at 100mph and she talks very very quickly. I sometimes wonder if there is some neurodiversity there. My niece from my other sister (niece 1) is diagnosed ASD and I have dyslexia and am borderline dyspraxic, so neurodivergence is in our DNA, but it hasn't been considered on this side of the family. Niece 1 also struggles a lot to go to sleep until very very late. I think it can be a case that melatonin isn't produced until much later at night for people with ASD/ADHD compared to others.

Apologies if you have already tried this suggestion but I think if I were in your shoes I would just be letting your her read until about 9:30pm upstairs on her own and you stay downstairs with DH and have your evening. Even is she isn't sleeping she is still relaxing and this will help her feel more rested than you having long bed time battles, if she falls asleep by 10pm then she ought to still be able to get 8/9hrs in which might be all she actually needs if she has always needed less sleep than average. According to Lyndsey Hookway's guidance on sleep needs to be spot on for DS she says average for 6-13 year olds is 9-11 hrs at night. I think it is important for you that you get time away from her, and good for her to spend part of her bedtime ritual without you and be less in control. Then I would try getting her to fall asleep at that point, maybe use a relaxing audiobook/ guided meditation or something playing whilst you lye by her, hopefully she is much more tired at this time and will go into a deeper sleep and you can actually sneak away? I know that if I fall asleep too early then I'm easily disturbed and usually wake up after a short time and then really struggle to go back to sleep again. Even if really tired I sleep much better if I wait up later. I guess if that works you could try some sort of gradual retreat? She ought to be used to falling asleep to the audiobook/meditation and you can gradually remove your input?

I think it is a source of resentment in my sister's marriage that her dad is STILL getting relocated in the middle of the night due to niece 2. I think there surely must be a time when they can learn to be awake in the night on their without having to let everyone else in the household know about it? I certainly remember not being able to sleep from primary school age if there was something exciting happening the next day for example, and not feeling the need to go and wake my mum up. I guess you could also try to work some sort of strategy where she feels more relaxed on her own, awake at night without needing anyone to do anything? Afterall you can't make her sleep really but you probably can work on that somehow?

[LGBirmingham]

Sorry just realised how long that post was. Hope I said something helpful! I'd recommend this book if you haven't come across it - Still Awake - Lyndsey Hookway . It was helpful with toddler ds but also has advice for older children too.

[purplepixiepie]

Thank you so much I appreciate the reply. I’ll check the book out. She is definitely an overthinker and also speaks fast. I have wondered about possible ADHD. She functions well at school but lately has been getting tearful and saying she doesn’t know why. I think it’s tiredness or possibly hormones.

I went out for a bit last night and came home and she was asleep but with her sister so my husband gave in 😩 I really hope we aren’t navigating this when she is 20!

[LGBirmingham]

I'm sure you won't be. I think part of the reason it has gone on this long is that my sister doesn't particularly mind. She still openly talks about niece 2 coming into her bed and doesn't seem at all embarrassed about it. My sister and niece 2 are very similar and in some ways I think my sister likes in situation and the close bond it brings. I guess soon she might have her own long term partner and then she will always have someone to sleep with/wake up in the night when she still can't fall asleep.

You want things to change so I'm sure you will find a way for that to happen. Let me know if you find something that works for you.

[Busy77]

I have the same problem with my 10 year old (y5). I could have written that first paragraph word for word. We've recently discovered she is dyslexic and I think there were signs in the Ed pych report that could lead us to adhd. I don't know what the answer is, I keep hoping she will grow out of it but I suspect she will have life long sleep issues. When she sleeps well she consistently she finds school a lot easier.